ASCI Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Fantastic class warfare post! Rich people= evil; poor people = good. Right. 310623[/snapback] ok buddy, keep drinking the kool aid and repeat to yourself “The rich and powerful like Ken Lay and Bernard Ebbers love me and are looking out for me”. Talk about a cult like brain !@#$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Last I heard, Lay has been indicted and is awaiting trial. But why bother bringing that up among your tired drivel? 310513[/snapback] Details....details...It is much easier to get people to buy into the empty rhetoric if you leave out little details like that. He was only indicted last July, right? I figured by now the news would have reached Washington state, but I guess not. Maybe, we need to wait another few months for the news to reach Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 “The rich and powerful like Ken Lay and Bernard Ebbers love me and are looking out for me”. Talk about a cult like brain !@#$ 310699[/snapback] Lay is looking out for Lay Ebbers is looking out for Ebbers Newbie should be looking out for Newbie. If Newbie is worried about who else is looking out for Newbie, then Newbie has become dependant. Don't be dependant on others. Dependency sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 We're talking about it as a group - we'll start planning it amongst ourselves on Saturday at the draft. The good thing is the guy who manages our Billsbacker's bar is from SD and has all the hookups. 310678[/snapback] Sweet! Let me know, cuz I got a feeling the fish tacos are gonna be hot and the beers cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 GG, I don’t see Delay leading the charge to stop this sort of thing in the future. No he has to write laws directed at little guys, the middle class. Maybe if people spent as much time in researching the issues as they did in ranting about them, we wouldn't have so many disagreements. This law is directed at the "little guys" because that is the law's intention. The current bankruptcy laws work fine when dealing with businesses. Do you decry speeding tickets as violation of a fast driver's rights? Because creditors can take possession of a company's assets or the company itself, and they cannot take possesion of the soul of the individual, you will always have inherent disparity in the bankruptcy law's use. As consumer debt exploded in the past decade, individuals were able to use the disparity in the law to avoid paying back the obligations by shielding assets. The new law would force more people into Chapter 13 instead of Chapter 7. Chapter 13 is closer to what happens to companies in Chapter 11, where a court supervised reorganization takes place and is agreed upon between creditors and debtors. The Ch. 11 system works very well, and there is no need to change (spare the hysteria generated by headlines not even worth making NYT). Why are you fixated on the reorganization of Worldcom into a new and somewaht healthy MCI? Who, other than the guilty executives, and unwitting investors should be punished? Would you feel better that Worldcom/MCI was not able to reorganize in Ch. 11, and lost 200,000 jobs? Would that fit your rising Democratic mantra? Who won when the government indicted Arthur Anderson, which led to 60,000 jobs being eliminated immediately? AD, The republicans are in powers right now and could easily write laws to stamp out future corporate abuse. People lost their whole life savings from these dishonest companies. i'd go after the Dems just as hard if they were in power. 310536[/snapback] Dems fighting for the little guy is the biggest smoke screen the party has going for it. Existing securities laws work well. You hould note that much of the corporate thievery was caught by the industry itself, and government agents swooped in after the cats were out of the bag. You seem to wish for a perfect world, where legislation and enforcement would ensure that there are no thieves, cheats and liars. Good luck in that quest. It also sounds like you want more laws to protect people from themselves. What we have in the financial markets is the constant presence of risk, which an investor should try to quantify before spending one penny on a security. That risk also include the potential of fraud. The system has its checks and balances, but that also depends on the mutual trust of the parties. For a vast percentage of public companies, that trust is not broken. For select few, the trust was broken, and people are paying the price and getting severe sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 ok buddy, keep drinking the kool aid and repeat to yourself “The rich and powerful like Ken Lay and Bernard Ebbers love me and are looking out for me”. Talk about a cult like brain !@#$ 310699[/snapback] I didn't know that Prisoner 1291378 also posts as Newbie, because after his sentencing, Ebbers will be looking out for him for quite a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCI Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Out of all the things Delay could have done to save money for the average guy, like tax reform for instance, he chooses to champion big financial institutions with this bill so they can pick any remaining meat off the consumer corpse. The bean counters must love him; too bad it screws the average Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 The bean counters must love him; too bad it screws the average Joe. 310773[/snapback] where do you get your talking points from? 1920s footage of Huey Long? A bean in every oven and a chicken in every garage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCI Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Details....details...It is much easier to get people to buy into the empty rhetoric if you leave out little details like that. He was only indicted last July, right? I figured by now the news would have reached Washington state, but I guess not. Maybe, we need to wait another few months for the news to reach Seattle. 310713[/snapback] You have missed my point. Point is what is Delay doing to prevent future Ken Lays. I know what he’s doing to prevent future average Joes from filing bankruptcy. How about a bill for better corporate discloser for publicly trade companies and stricter bookkeeping regulations and procedures. When a company reforms or spins off to try to escape, how about paying their debt back to the old shareholders. If they are making it harder on consumers to escape debt then they should also stick it to the corps. too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 You have missed my point. Point is what is Delay doing to prevent future Ken Lays. I know what he’s doing to prevent future average Joes from filing bankruptcy. How about a bill for better corporate discloser for publicly trade companies and stricter bookkeeping regulations and procedures. When a company reforms or spins off to try to escape, how about paying their debt back to the old shareholders. If they are making it harder on consumers to escape debt then they should also stick it to the corps. too. 310789[/snapback] Again...if you want something done, get up off your azz and do something about it. Stop bitching and make a difference. If you want legislation, contact your reps and get 'er done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCI Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 where do you get your talking points from? 1920s footage of Huey Long? A bean in every oven and a chicken in every garage! 310774[/snapback] From my heart and mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCI Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Again...if you want something done, get up off your azz and do something about it. Stop bitching and make a difference. If you want legislation, contact your reps and get 'er done. 310798[/snapback] Oh dad, Can I do it tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 How about a bill for better corporate discloser for publicly trade companies and stricter bookkeeping regulations and procedures. When a company reforms or spins off to try to escape, how about paying their debt back to the old shareholders. If they are making it harder on consumers to escape debt then they should also stick it to the corps. too. 310789[/snapback] Maybe because that law already exists and works fine? BTW, if a company has debt, that debt isn't owed to the shareholders. A technical nit, but an important one if you are going to slam laws that affect minutae like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Oh dad, Can I do it tomorrow! 310806[/snapback] Depends. How badly do you want the legislation? If all you want to do is B word, then tough shiit. You get nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 You get nothing. 310811[/snapback] Damn, I suddenly feel like George trying to get some chicken-vegetable from the Soup Nazi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Damn, I suddenly feel like George trying to get some chicken-vegetable from the Soup Nazi! 310820[/snapback] And just like that, we circle the thread back to the Pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I cannot believe you guys a sticking up for the rich and powerful who just as soon spit on you as look at you. Instead of passing laws to make it tougher on the little guys to file bankruptcy, which I mind you there are already laws on the books for filing fraudulently, why not make it harder for corporations like WorldCom and Enron to file bankruptcy and walks away from the millions of people they ripped off which is the WAY bigger evil. 310609[/snapback] Why do you insist on repeating the same ignorant line? Why don't you actually go find out what has happened to the Enron and WorldCom guys. Or would you care to explain how a ten year jail sentence (Fastow) is a 'slap on the wrist'? Are you aware that Ebbers has been convicted and is awaiting sentencing? Are you aware that Sullivan has pled guilty? (Do you even know who these people are?) What do you think should have happened to WorldCom? It should have been shut down so tens of thousands more would lose their jobs? And while we are at it, please explain specifically what you oppose about the new bankruptcy laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Right freakin' on, Newbie! Down with the Man! I'm sick of voting. By God, it's easier to throw a brick than throw a switch. Take it to the streets brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 You have missed my point. Point is what is Delay doing to prevent future Ken Lays. I know what he’s doing to prevent future average Joes from filing bankruptcy. Please...explain what's wrong with the current laws on the subject. How about a bill for better corporate discloser for publicly trade companies and stricter bookkeeping regulations and procedures. When a company reforms or spins off to try to escape, how about paying their debt back to the old shareholders. If they are making it harder on consumers to escape debt then they should also stick it to the corps. too. 310789[/snapback] Start with ditching this line of thought. "Paying their debt back to the old shareholders"? Shareholders don't hold debt. "Better corporate discloser [sic] for publicly trade companies and stricter bookkeeping regulations and procedures"? Do you have any idea how strict disclosure regulations are right now? Do you even understand that the problem wasn't that the law was too weak, but that it was violated, which is why these crooks are slowly but surely being sent to jail in the first place? Are you aware that the main problem not covered under the law was the relative lack of independence of "independent" auditors...which has already been addressed by the SEC. You honestly need to go out and learn something of what's transpired since...well, since the founding of the Securites and Exchange Commission in the '30s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 "Better corporate discloser [sic] for publicly trade companies and stricter bookkeeping regulations and procedures"? Do you have any idea how strict disclosure regulations are right now? The sad part is that the disclosure requirements are now so vast that 98% of stockholders in a given company don't even bother to read the prospectus, S-1, 10-K or other documents in which they are so painstakingly laid out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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