Jauronimo Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: Try looking at the subject matter of the first post. That would be a good start. You calling out FireChans?? Should we call you BigDoc? #GetchaHeatMapsReady 1
HamSandwhich Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 38 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I’ll continue to echo that I’m not saying the reporters great. but if you spent your last couple months having big meaningful conversations about a major topic that’s playing out around you and then you are asked about that topic at hand... it’s a reasonable expectation to see him say something more meaningful about the issue. Like I said, not the end of the world but good reason to have a questions (which the reporter may or may not have been able to ask) It’s never a reasonable expectation to expect someone to do what you want them to. Freedom and free will is paramount in this country and the way you are thinking is a direct attack on that.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, NoSaint said: no - there’s ability to review on content as well as structure. The latter is a lot more quantifiable. I can say something was a well answered question with an opinion I disagree with. Plenty of well constructed arguments that I think are terrible morally. his answer wasn’t very good structurally whether or not you share his faith. He dodged the topic. He could’ve said “I use my faith as a guide but have learned— insert whatever he wants” instead of “nah it’s good, I’m religious” Being "religious" means nothing without putting something into actual practice, which is what I took Fromm's point to be in his answer. Loving others does not follow just by defining oneself as "religious." I would agree with your take if all he actually said was "I'm religious."
HappyDays Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 He made a dumb joke in a private text conversation. If he had made an actual racist statement I would get the outrage but that's not what happened. And I don't expect football players to have poignant things to say about racial issues. This whole "controversy" has been really stupid from the start. 1 1 2
Doc Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: You calling out FireChans?? Should we call you BigDoc? #GetchaHeatMapsReady Nope. MLJ making a mountain out of Fromm’s comments.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yeah, that's one of my points: Twitter is problematic, because reporters often use the same account both to promote their professional work, AND to express their personal opinions. I took it as M L-J doing the latter. Agreed 100%.
GunnerBill Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Being "religious" means nothing without putting something into actual practice, which is what I took Fromm's point to be in his answer. Loving others does not follow just by defining oneself as "religious." I would agree with your take if all he actually said was "I'm religious." It was a cop out answer.
dwight in philly Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 wow.. impressed with all the analysis of a non story! 2
NoSaint Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Just now, HamSandwhich said: It’s never a reasonable expectation to expect someone to do what you want them to. Freedom and free will is paramount in this country and the way you are thinking is a direct attack on that. sure thing... the one saying he’s free to answer and people are free to react is the one against freedom
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, SCBills said: I believe in saying “Black Lives Matter”. The basis of this movement is much needed. .... ......Depending on the reporter, there’s no correct answer in regards to the all encompassing “everything” that surrounds the topic of racial justice in this country. C'mon man. If I just told you I spent the last two months "educating myself, staying really close to my friends that are on the other side, having those conversations" and "I grew up kind of seeing it just one way, and seeing the world from a slightly different way has helped me kind of see the background of what's troubling people. I can say that I'm starting to see it, I'm learning", do you really think there isn't a better answer to the question "so what have you learned about social inequality in this country?" than "love God and love people" that would provide some evidence of one's education and learning? Compare and contrast with Josh Allen's response on a Zoom call with reporters: “What I have been doing is having conversations with teammates and trying to listen and trying to learn. I’ve been in a position where I’ve never been pulled over and I feared for my life and I think that’s a horrible thing that many people of color have to go through that,” Josh Allen said on a zoom call with reporters...... "As far as racial injustices there’s no room for racism." I'm sure there are many people who would not find his entire response "correct" from one or another viewpoint, but it does provide evidence that he's trying to listen to other people's experience and relate it to his own. 1 minute ago, SCBills said: Marcel Louis-Jacque just happens to reside on the side of the argument that’s socially acceptable at the moment, thus ESPN most assuredly allows him to editorialize while conflating reporting with personal opinion. I posted the link to M L-J's actual ESPN article upthread. Do you feel it conflates reporting with personal opinion or editorializes? The twitter account is his personal account 1
Mark Vader Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 hour ago, nucci said: what if you don't believe in Jesus? Then you can go be a Patriots* fan. They'll do anything for the cause.
SCBills Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, dwight in philly said: wow.. impressed with all the analysis of a non story! A non-story?.. One of our beat reporters just took to Twitter to slander a guy who plays for us. Whether you feel that’s fair, or not... it’s a story.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 2 hours ago, SCBills said: This is disgusting reporting from a guy I really liked up until now. If I’m Bills Management, I’m making a “friendly” phone call about whether he wants access to our guys in the future or not. How is this disgusting reporting? https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29615286/jake-fromm-looks-make-amends-elite-white-people-text
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: Fromm's response was pure crap. Love God first and people second?? You act like hes quoting the sermon on the mound. He used his faith as a shield to avoid a difficult question and some act like any string of words remotely spiritual is sacred text. He basically said "Jesus is just alright with me, jesus is just alright oh yeah". I think "sermon on the mound" is a movie that one might find in the same aisle as "On Golden Blonde" and "Romancing the Bone". The "Sernon on the Mount" is different. Fromm's response was just that, his response to a question. The reporters response show's he as judgemental as most. If you don't know want to know what people think you should not ask them. 1
muppy Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: All this post says to me is that you can dodge a question with some vaguely spiritual crap and that will be above reproach for many people. MLJ: What do you have to say about throwing 6 INTs today in a blowout loss? Fromm: Thou shalt protect thy father and honor no one above him unless it beith me, thy sweet Lord! MLJ: That's a ***** answer. Bills Fans: Marcel is a heretic! ridiculous analogy. Just because you dont buy his comment or agree with it doesnt make it vaguely spiritual crap. It was in context and backed by scripture which millions of people recognize as truth. Thats not Jake Fromms problem that MLJ doesnt get it or agree or anyone else for that matter Edited August 7, 2020 by Muppy 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, SCBills said: A non-story?.. One of our beat reporters just took to Twitter to slander a guy who plays for us. What do you feel is the slander? "someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed." L-J accurately reported what Fromm said for ESPN, then stated his personal opinion on twitter that as the result of 2 months discussing and learning, he found Fromm's response "unacceptable" (to him, I presume). Where is the untruth? It's L-J's personal opinion.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It was a cop out answer. I respect that's your opinion. Others including me may disagree, which was my point upthread concerning the subjective nature of what in that context would have been an "acceptable" answer. I'm glad all of us get the chance to go back and forth over it though.
jwhit34 Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) The post on ESPN by MLJ was much more complete: Buffalo Bills quarterback Jake Fromm insists that text messages in which he said "only elite white people" should be able to purchase guns are not indicative of his character, nor do they represent the way he was raised. "That's not where my heart is," Fromm said Friday, speaking to local media for the first time since screenshots of the conversation emerged in June. "The one thing that I want to do here on this earth is love God and love people, and I fell short of that. I want to make amends and really be better from here on out so that I can earn their trust and really bring something to this football team." He quoted Fromm further: Fromm called the text a product of his "lack of perspective, being naive and being young and immature." He said jokes or comments like that were not an occurrence from him growing up and "were never said" in his household. "I made a mistake and I'm going to own up to it, but that's not indicative of who I am," Fromm said, "and I promise you that is not where my heart is at." And there's even more in the post I encourage all to read it. I commend MLJ for the including all of that in his post, his post was a gazillion times more objective than the Tweet. I think it's unfortunate in our "Twitter limited # of character world" that the Tweets end up > the actual reporting, which in this case MLJ did right. Link: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29615286/jake-fromm-looks-make-amends-elite-white-people-text Edited August 7, 2020 by jwhit34 1
SCBills Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: C'mon man. If I just told you I spent the last two months "educating myself, staying really close to my friends that are on the other side, having those conversations" and "I grew up kind of seeing it just one way, and seeing the world from a slightly different way has helped me kind of see the background of what's troubling people. I can say that I'm starting to see it, I'm learning", do you really think there isn't a better answer to the question "so what have you learned about social inequality in this country?" than "love God and love people" that would provide some evidence of one's education and learning? Compare and contrast with Josh Allen's response on a Zoom call with reporters: “What I have been doing is having conversations with teammates and trying to listen and trying to learn. I’ve been in a position where I’ve never been pulled over and I feared for my life and I think that’s a horrible thing that many people of color have to go through that,” Josh Allen said on a zoom call with reporters...... "As far as racial injustices there’s no room for racism." I'm sure there are many people who would not find his entire response "correct" from one or another viewpoint, but it does provide evidence that he's trying to listen to other people's experience and relate it to his own. I posted the link to M L-J's actual ESPN article upthread. Do you feel it conflates reporting with personal opinion or editorializes? The twitter account is his personal account MLJ clearly “reports” from his Twitter account. That’s your decision to make, not the reporter (IMO). If MLJ simply reported those comments, like reporters used to do, we’d all be free to draw our own conclusions on whether we’re ok with it or not. I guess the semantics debate revolves around how we view Twitter accounts for reporters, along with how said reporter uses their account.
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