Don Otreply Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 All people to include Marcel and Jake are shades of good and bad as it were. Those that judge Marcel on a public forum are doing the same as Marcel is doing to Jake. Jake brought this upon himself, Playing the redneck whitey game, he is reaping what he sowed. Jake may very well be a good guy, but he might try loving others first, because really, who cares about his version of the christian deity, there are so many to keep track of. Actions speak louder than words Jake needs to take it to heart as do we all. Here’s to hoping we all become better people ? Go Bills!!! 5
LeviF Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: in context of what he was addressing it wasn’t a terribly appropriate answer. He punted and used faith as a shield instead of using it as a moral structure behind explaining what he learned He wasn't really asked about the texts or his attitudes either though, he was asked about the "things that have happened in this country" over the past couple months. 1
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: No, thats actually what you're saying. Marcel is saying Fromm, given his leaked texts, owes everyone a real answer as to what he believes about the protests and social justice issues and not some generalized statements about loving God. I do not agree that Marcel or the public is entitled to a full answer but lets not pretend Fromm didn't dodge the question when he specifically says the last thing he is going to do is get political. “There’s a lot of things going on and the last thing I want to do is get political in any sort of way, but I think the world would be a better place if we can love God first and then love people.” But didn't he do that before already? https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-jake-fromm-apologizes-for-leaked-text-theres-no-excuse-for-that-word-choice-and-sentiment/ From the article: "I am extremely sorry that I chose to use the words 'elite white people' in a text message conversation," Fromm wrote in his statement. "Although I never meant to imply that I am an 'elite white person,' as stated later in the conversation, there's no excuse for that word choice and sentiment. While it was poor, my heart is not. Now, more than ever, is the time for support and togetherness and I stand against racism 100%. I promise to commit myself to being a part of the solution in this country. I addressed my teammates and coaches in a team meeting today and I hope they see this incident is not representative of the person I am. Again, I'm truly sorry for my words and actions and humbly ask for forgiveness."
NoSaint Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, DFT said: Yes, you’re missing something. The question wasn’t asked, “what did you learn”. The question was to give his opinion on what this country has faced recently. your missing that in the context of a conversation about what he got himself into with a racially questionable comment and him talking about his big difficult conversations and then transitioning to what do you think about the racial issues going on... his answer by very definition is going to be showcasing what he’s learned.
Jauronimo Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said: But didn't he do that before already? https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-jake-fromm-apologizes-for-leaked-text-theres-no-excuse-for-that-word-choice-and-sentiment/ From the article: "I am extremely sorry that I chose to use the words 'elite white people' in a text message conversation," Fromm wrote in his statement. "Although I never meant to imply that I am an 'elite white person,' as stated later in the conversation, there's no excuse for that word choice and sentiment. While it was poor, my heart is not. Now, more than ever, is the time for support and togetherness and I stand against racism 100%. I promise to commit myself to being a part of the solution in this country. I addressed my teammates and coaches in a team meeting today and I hope they see this incident is not representative of the person I am. Again, I'm truly sorry for my words and actions and humbly ask for forgiveness." No. Where in quote above did he give his opinion on current events?
Warcodered Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Don Otreply said: Those that judge Marcel on a public forum are doing the same as Marcel is doing to Jake. I mean we don't work for ESPN and we don't have a blue checkmark. We're fans talking in a message board on the outskirts of the internet.
DFT Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Just now, NoSaint said: in context of what he was addressing it wasn’t a terribly appropriate answer. He punted and used faith as a shield instead of using it as a moral structure behind explaining what he learned That makes sense if you don’t respect the Christian faith. Because the Christian faith says that Christ is a Christians refuge. That nullifies the “using faith as a shield” argument. And that’s exactly what’s happening in the world today. People have become so thirsty to oppose a very real evil (intolerance) that their anger helps them become exactly what they oppose in the process - intolerant. Not respecting his stance in a statement made through faith is intolerance no matter how any of us try to sway it. Jake admitted his wrongdoing. I doubt those that are condemning his response and showing their own intolerance to faith will admit their mistakes in the same accord. 2
Logic Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Fromm’s lack of self awareness and respect for the serious and complex nature of the issues at hand at this moment in history are not unique. His blindness and obliviousness in this instance reflects the blindness and obliviousness of many in this country. Hopefully, he does some self reflection and realizes that “everyone should love God”, while a fine idea, is not in itself a sufficient answer to the question of “how can we foster meaningful change to the problems of systemic racism and endemic white supremacy”. 1
whatdrought Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: No, thats actually what you're saying. Marcel is saying Fromm, given his leaked texts, owes everyone a real answer as to what he believes about the protests and social justice issues and not some generalized statements about loving God. I do not agree that Marcel or the public is entitled to a full answer but lets not pretend Fromm didn't dodge the question when he specifically says the last thing he is going to do is get political. “There’s a lot of things going on and the last thing I want to do is get political in any sort of way, but I think the world would be a better place if we can love God first and then love people.” You’re missing Fromm’s point. He’s saying he isn’t going to get into details because he’s learned his lesson about speaking without thinking. So he offers a basic answer and a guide by which he aspires to live his life. Marcel doesn’t believe his guide is valid, or else he’d see it as an appropriate response. He’s demanding more. He doesn’t believe that simply seeking to love one another is a good enough response for some stupid mistakes. 1
uticaclub Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) I still think it was ridiculous those texts were an issue to begin with. How many black guys that got drafted had questionable texts from years past? What was Fromm suppose to say? “This Marxist organization terrorizing communities isn’t the way to make any changes or OK, What do you want?” Edited August 7, 2020 by uticaclub
DFT Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, eball said: That's cool, I didn't have a strong reaction either way. It's just how it came across to me. I'll never understand the logic of extremely religious people so their message is largely lost on me. I'm more of a "do the right thing because it's the right thing to do" kind of guy. And I respect your response immensely! The world needs more of this exact response and I say that with the upmost sincerity! ? 1
NoSaint Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: He wasn't really asked about the texts or his attitudes either though, he was asked about the "things that have happened in this country" over the past couple months. how do you separate this: Spoke to Bills QB Jake Fromm, who insisted he's had many difficult conversations over the past few months since his "elite white people" texts surfaced. He said he's starting to see the world in a new perspective. Also insists that text is not indicative of who he is as a person from his answer to what he thinks of the issues of the last few months? I’m not trying to cancel him or anything but obviously I’m an ideal answer he’d have a bit more content than love god and each other if he’s had many important conversations on race
Long Suffering Fan Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Thank you to everyone that has kept this discussion civil. I have actually enjoyed this thread instead of clicking off of it. Quote MLJ: What do you have to say about throwing 6 INTs today in a blowout loss? Fromm: Thou shalt protect thy father and honor no one above him unless it beith me, thy sweet Lord! That is not a completely fair comparison. I also hate it with a passion when people hypocritically hide behind their faith. It bothers me at a level that I can not fully describe. The example you gave is someone completely changing the subject and dodging the question. Fromm's response was actually on point. If everyone just followed Jesus' command (whether they believed in Him or not) and loved people as much as they loved themselves, there would be no racism in this world. If Fromm had been living what he quoted, he would have never sent out those original texts. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Peter said: The kid is in a difficult position. He texted a very stupid thing. There is no getting around that. I cannot say what is in his heart. How he treats people probably is more indicative. Nevertheless, with everything that is going on, I suspect that no matter how he responded, someone would take offense. Agree with this too. This is a complete non story. 1
Don Otreply Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Just now, Warcodered said: I mean we don't work for ESPN and we don't have a blue checkmark. We're fans talking in a message board on the outskirts of the internet. I mean It is the same none the less. The scale of views is the only difference. The action is the same.
DFT Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, NoSaint said: your missing that in the context of a conversation about what he got himself into with a racially questionable comment and him talking about his big difficult conversations and then transitioning to what do you think about the racial issues going on... his answer by very definition is going to be showcasing what he’s learned. You really had to stretch the actual conversation to fit all of the things you were expecting from the conversation. So if I’m to look at that intelligently, it looks like you were expecting something to come from a conversation just like the reporter was expecting. That’s not wrong. What’s wrong is condemning Jake’s response because it didn’t fit what you were expecting. He still deserves to have his faith respected just as he deserves to be expected to respect others.
BullBuchanan Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Just now, NoSaint said: how do you separate this: Spoke to Bills QB Jake Fromm, who insisted he's had many difficult conversations over the past few months since his "elite white people" texts surfaced. He said he's starting to see the world in a new perspective. Also insists that text is not indicative of who he is as a person from his answer to what he thinks of the issues of the last few months? I’m not trying to cancel him or anything but obviously I’m an ideal answer he’d have a bit more content than love god and each other if he’s had many important conversations on race It's ok to see a correlation there, but I don't think it's Fromm's responsibility to do so. I say this as someone who's extremely opposed to what he said. The reporter needs to ask a better and more direct question, not try to connect dots.
Doc Brown Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Does he have enough arm strength to send Barkley packing? That's all I care about.
eball Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 Just now, Doc Brown said: Does he have enough arm strength to send Barkley packing? That's all I care about. God willing. 1
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 7, 2020 Posted August 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: No. Where in quote above did he give his opinion on current events? "Now, more than ever, is the time for support and togetherness and I stand against racism 100%. I promise to commit myself to being a part of the solution in this country." I take that to mean that he's in solidarity with the themes driving the national re-examination of racial issues. I understand you may disagree that he's still not being specific enough, but if the place that you start from as a worldview isn't built on the right foundation (we are all born equal under the sun and should be treated as such), then all the rest is just window-dressing as far as I'm concerned. I do think that Fromm's acceptance by his teammates (if that's what's been happening) will speak very loudly on that point of whether or not he's being authentic. Again, just imo.
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