Democrats Can't Win Elections Without Cheating

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, westside2 said:

Really????

Just look into all the voter fraud in California. 

Yes "really". I already looked into all accusations of fraud and found it's statistically insignificant. The burden of truth lies on the accuser. It's not my job to prove that something doesn't exist. Even the most biased of right wrong sources can't prove fraud above a statistically insignificant level. Given how you lot like to frame arguments, I don't expect you to come up with much more than a tweet or a talking head in response.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, Niagara said:

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2010/07/20/al-franken-may-have-won-his-senate-seat-through-voter-fraud

 

As the Wall Street Journal's John Fund reports, Minnesota Democrat Al Franken’s narrow, 312-vote victory in 2008 over incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman may have come as the result of people being allowed to vote who, under existing law, shouldn’t have been.

Fake news.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/campaign/126789-the-truth-about-the-2008-minnesota-senate-recount-a-response-to-democratic-party-still-disenfranchising-and-oppresing-votes

[snafu]

42 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I love how people think that receiving a ballot indicates that just anyone can fill it out and it's going to be accepted - like there's no processing steps whatsoever that look for fraud. 

You have no idea whether voting will work in places that haven't done all-mail balloting before.  Nobody checks I.D. at a polling place -- how are they going to check it in someone's kitchen.  I will receive somewhere between 5 to 7 ballots in my home (depending on if they send me dead voters' ballots).  What would stop me from gathering the mail and voting 5 to 7 times?  What if the other people in my house had no intention of voting and I capitalize on it?

I also love how people point to the cases of people being charged with attempted voter fraud as some sort of example that it's a problem, when in reality it's an example of why it's not because they've been caught.

What the...

EVERY fraud gets detected, huh?  What if the fraud gets detected after the results are posted -- will President Biden step down? Would Trump?

If you wanted to make an argument about fraudulent ballots at a smaller scale for something like the local school board, I'd listen to that. When you're talking about statewide and federal elections though, it's always going to be a lot easier to suppress to vote, gerrymander districts and use the news cycle to your advantage. Hell, even having people not record the voting numbers is a bigger issue.

Statewide general elections are run at local levels. But in any event, the issues you describe take place and are done by both parties.

Cases of voter fraud are statistically irrelevant in presidential elections.

Cases of voter fraud may have been statistically irrelevant in presidential elections prior to this one.  Change the system and throw history out.

 

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I have data

 

Oh. 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

10 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Fake news.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/campaign/126789-the-truth-about-the-2008-minnesota-senate-recount-a-response-to-democratic-party-still-disenfranchising-and-oppresing-votes

 

 

Jay Weiner is a writer and the author of “This Is Not Florida: How Al Franken Won The Minnesota Senate Recount,” 

 

 

LOL

 

That's your 'response'

[B-Man]

 

 

 

WELL, THERE YOU ARE, THE EXPERTS HAVE SPOKEN: 

 

November election in U.S. can be held safely, experts say.

 

With the 2020 presidential election just three months away, new research suggests an election can be held safely if stringent steps are taken to lower COVID-19 infection risk.

 

The conclusion follows a U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention investigation that looked at what happened in the city of Milwaukee this past April after Wisconsin became the first state to hold an election in the midst of the pandemic.

 

The bottom line: the election did not appear to trigger an uptick in cases, hospitalizations or deaths due to COVID-19.

 

More at the link:

[Deranged Rhino]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

There is Fraud. We've agreed there.

 

Is it by Honest people or D bags? Or the Establishment?     Meaning the GOP and DNC actually create the fake votes. 

 

2 hours ago, snafu said:

 

Does it matter who performs the fraud?  I can't say if it is establishment, or individuals who act on their own.

The establishment and their supporters will try to capitalize on it by either supporting it with a wink or condemning it when they can.

Why add to the potential for this?

 

 

Two points... the first Snafu touched on previously but is worth pointing out. You and others are claiming that in the history of elections there hasn't been a large level of voter fraud. That's great. That system has been in place and tweaked, tightened, and secured over MANY election cycles. What's being proposed now is NOT that system, so saying "there will be no fraud" in a system no one has ever done before is not only incorrect, it's shortsighted. No one knows what to expect with this because they're rushing to implement something new. 

 

The second point is about the "who". If you're still laboring under the delusion that only one party or the other can be bad actors in the election, then I would suggest you've learned nothing from what actually happened in the Trump/Russia scandal. This isn't about parties. This is about the establishment control which is uni-party and NOT working in the peoples' interests. They're the ones who fix it. 

 

And mail in voting makes it easier than ever for them to do that -- to all our detriment. Supporting it, just because Trump does not, is to cut off your nose to spite your face. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Deranged Rhino

[BillStime]

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, Niagara said:

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2010/07/20/al-franken-may-have-won-his-senate-seat-through-voter-fraud

 

As the Wall Street Journal's John Fund reports, Minnesota Democrat Al Franken’s narrow, 312-vote victory in 2008 over incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman may have come as the result of people being allowed to vote who, under existing law, shouldn’t have been.

… At least 341 convicted felons voted in Minneapolis's Hennepin County, the state's largest, and another 52 voted illegally in St. Paul's Ramsey County, the state's second largest. Dan McGrath, head of Minnesota Majority, says that only conclusive matches were included in the group's totals. The number of felons voting in those two counties alone exceeds Mr. Franken's victory margin.

If I remember correctly Franken ended up behind by several hundred votes on election day. There was a recount and Franken votes kept appearing until they had enough for him to win. Something similar happened in Arizona with Sinema. 

[Koko78]

19 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

If I remember correctly Franken ended up behind by several hundred votes on election day. There was a recount and Franken votes kept appearing until they had enough for him to win. Something similar happened in Arizona with Sinema. 

 

Of course, we're totally to believe that nothing like that is going to happen with unsigned mail-in ballots bearing no post mark mysteriously appearing each and every day until the correct candidate has enough to win.

[Tiberius]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Were you weeping and sobbing, gobbling free pizza and petting dogs in a crying room when Hillary got clobbered in 2016? Did you need grief counseling?

 

Really, you can tell us. I promise that not 1 poster here will think any less of you. This I promise!!!

 

 

 

I didn’t. I saw this as an opportunity for GOP to show just how terrible they really are. 

 

Im happy to report, they have not disappointed and deserve an Election Day route and a ticket into the political wilderness 

[BullBuchanan]

4 hours ago, snafu said:

I love how people think that receiving a ballot indicates that just anyone can fill it out and it's going to be accepted - like there's no processing steps whatsoever that look for fraud. 

You have no idea whether voting will work in places that haven't done all-mail balloting before.  Nobody checks I.D. at a polling place -- how are they going to check it in someone's kitchen.  I will receive somewhere between 5 to 7 ballots in my home (depending on if they send me dead voters' ballots).  What would stop me from gathering the mail and voting 5 to 7 times?  What if the other people in my house had no intention of voting and I capitalize on it?

I also love how people point to the cases of people being charged with attempted voter fraud as some sort of example that it's a problem, when in reality it's an example of why it's not because they've been caught.

What the...

EVERY fraud gets detected, huh?  What if the fraud gets detected after the results are posted -- will President Biden step down? Would Trump?

If you wanted to make an argument about fraudulent ballots at a smaller scale for something like the local school board, I'd listen to that. When you're talking about statewide and federal elections though, it's always going to be a lot easier to suppress to vote, gerrymander districts and use the news cycle to your advantage. Hell, even having people not record the voting numbers is a bigger issue.

Statewide general elections are run at local levels. But in any event, the issues you describe take place and are done by both parties.

Cases of voter fraud are statistically irrelevant in presidential elections.

Cases of voter fraud may have been statistically irrelevant in presidential elections prior to this one.  Change the system and throw history out.

 

 

 

Yet Oregon has done it for decades without issue. You get social security, passports, banking information, drivers licenses, taxes, and absentee ballots by mail, but somehow general ballots are just a bridge too far for people to wrap their heads around. It's gotta be fraud, man - orange man said it.
-------------------------------------

• Identity verification: The principal method used to detect and prevent fraud is the mail ballot envelope itself, where each voter must include personal identifying information (such as address, birthday, and driver’s license number or last four digits of a Social Security number). In most states, that information includes a signature that can be used to match against the voter rolls. The voter’s remaining personal information is also matched against the information stored on the voter rolls. As Kim Wyman, Washington’s Republican secretary of state, explained, “we actually compare every single signature of every single ballot that comes in and we compare it and make sure that it matches the one on their voter registration record.” This is a long-standing and well-established practice to ensure that the ballot received was indeed cast by the correct voter. It’s important to note though that there are best and worst practices with signature matching. When done incorrectly, it can disenfranchise eligible voters. Done correctly — with signature matching software, bipartisan review by officials trained in signature verification, and outreach to flagged voters — it is an effective deterrent for fraud.
• Bar codes: Most election jurisdictions now use some form of bar code on their ballot envelopes. These bar codes allow election officials to keep track of ballot processing and help voters know whether their ballot has been received. Bar codes also allow states to identify and eliminate duplicate ballots if a voter casts more than one, whether mistakenly or corruptly.
• Ballot tracking through the U.S. Postal Service: In many jurisdictions, including California, Colorado and Florida, ballot envelopes are equipped with intelligent mail bar codes linked to the postal service that enable voters and election officials alike to track an envelope from drop-off to delivery and processing at the local administrator’s office. Denver’s elections division reported that 17,931 people used its system to track the status of their ballots during the November 2013 election. While relatively new, these ballot tracking systems are now readily available and are easily operable at scale. This way, if a voter says they never received their ballot, states can better determine whether the ballot was delivered, replace the ballot as appropriate, and ensure the original is flagged as compromised and not counted.
• Secure drop-off locations and drop boxes: Multiple ballot return options limit the opportunity for ballot tampering by fostering voter independence in returning a ballot. A common layer of security to ensure that ballots are not stolen or tampered with — at least for voters who can leave their homes — is secure drop-off locations. In places where all or most voters receive ballots by mail, many voters do not mail completed ballots; rather, they opt to drop their ballots off at secure polling sites. According to the Survey of the Performance of American Elections at Harvard University in 2016, 73 percent of voters in Colorado, 59 percent in Oregon, and 65 percent in Washington returned their ballots to some physical location, such as a drop box or local election office.
  
  Ballot drop-off locations help maintain a secure chain of custody as the ballot goes from the voter to the local election office. And when drop boxes are put outside of government offices, one security measure is to equip them with security cameras to monitor ballot traffic and ensure that the boxes are not breached. (Drop boxes in government buildings benefit from existing video security systems.) In addition to preventing fraud, secure drop-off locations enable voters to be confident that their ballots will be received on time.
• Harsh penalties: Anyone who commits voter fraud using a mail ballot risks severe criminal and civil penalties: up to five years in prison and $10,000 in fines for each act of fraud under federal law, in addition to any state penalties. In Oregon, for example, voting with or signing another person’s ballot is a Class C felony punishable by up to five years in prison. These penalties provide a strong deterrent to voter fraud; it makes no sense to risk such significant punishment for one additional vote.
• Postelection audits: In 2018, a review of returned absentee ballot records helped identify anomalies in the election results of Bladen County, North Carolina, enabling election officials to uncover election interference by a political operative who stole and tampered with mail ballots. Postelection audits, which many jurisdictions are starting to adopt, would more systematically enable election officials to identify any irregularities or misconduct in the vote. Audits typically use statistical techniques to review a sample of ballots cast in an election to ensure that votes were recorded and tallied accurately. Since audits can only be meaningfully carried out when there is a voter-verified paper record of each vote, mail ballots (which are paper-based), are conducive to effective audits. Postelection audits are already widely used in states that use mail voting and are a best security practice for all elections regardless.

[snafu]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Yet Oregon has done it for decades without issue.

 

Nobody here is ignoring the fact that some states conduct elections this way.

The issue is with the states that have never done it like Oregon, and are not geared up for it in such a short window of time.

 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Nobody here is ignoring the fact that some states conduct elections this way.

The issue is with the states that have never done it like Oregon, and are not geared up for it in such a short window of time.

 

Yet, even they had a first time. Look, states already do absentee ballots. This is really just an extension of that process. The fact that states are going to have figure out processes for COVID, should really offset most added effort.

We need to stop acting like moving from an 18th century solution to a 19th century solution is impossible in the 21rst century. Pandemic aside, I don't want to go stand in line for 3+ hours again. Hell, I don't even want to have to go to a mailbox or buy a stamp. I would vastly prefer an app, but I know that it would be absolutely impossible to convince people that is completely secure, who already think voter fraud is rampant. I'll settle for the mail option for now.

[Westside]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Yet, even they had a first time. Look, states already do absentee ballots. This is really just an extension of that process. The fact that states are going to have figure out processes for COVID, should really offset most added effort.

We need to stop acting like moving from an 18th century solution to a 19th century solution is impossible in the 21rst century. Pandemic aside, I don't want to go stand in line for 3+ hours again. Hell, I don't even want to have to go to a mailbox or buy a stamp. I would vastly prefer an app, but I know that it would be absolutely impossible to convince people that is completely secure, who already think voter fraud is rampant. I'll settle for the mail option for now.

You're such a fraud.

[BullBuchanan]

13 minutes ago, westside2 said:

You're such a fraud.

keep living down to my expectations.

[B-Man]

 

 

Except (of course) it is becoming more and more obvious that this rush to switch all the voting is not necessary.

 

 

4 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

WELL, THERE YOU ARE, THE EXPERTS HAVE SPOKEN: 

 

November election in U.S. can be held safely, experts say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Sarcasm, for those who can't recognize it.

 

 

Georgia law (O.C.G.A § 21-2-417) requires Georgia residents to show photo identification when voting in person. 

 

Go ahead explain why the voter/ID law did not suppress the vote...................go ahead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Niagara]

7 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Cases of voter fraud are statistically irrelevant in presidential elections.

Without voter ID, plus disallow of citizenship question on the census, a significant % of populace will not accept US elections as valid. 

Iraqi elections are more secure.

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-04-30/purple-finger-remains-hopeful-symbol-iraq-iraqis-go-polls

The purple finger is back. Iraqis went to the polls Wednesday to vote in parliamentary elections, and once again voters are holding up ink-stained fingers as a sign of pride.

The long-lasting purple ink stain indicates who’s voted and is used to prevent fraud.

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Niagara

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Niagara said:

Without voter ID, plus disallow of citizenship question on the census, a significant % of populace will not accept US elections as valid. 

Iraqi elections are more secure.

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-04-30/purple-finger-remains-hopeful-symbol-iraq-iraqis-go-polls

The purple finger is back. Iraqis went to the polls Wednesday to vote in parliamentary elections, and once again voters are holding up ink-stained fingers as a sign of pride.

The long-lasting purple ink stain indicates who’s voted and is used to prevent fraud.

 

Come on. This is just getting stupid.

9 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Sarcasm, for those who can't recognize it.

 

 

Georgia law (O.C.G.A § 21-2-417) requires Georgia residents to show photo identification when voting in person. 

 

Go ahead explain why the voter/ID law did not suppress the vote...................go ahead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with voter ID. I'm not sure how far we need to go in creating new ones however. We all have SS numbers and many of us have Drivers licenses/military ID/ state ID.

 Votes are supressed in a lot of other ways though, like dumping voting rolls and closing polling locations not to even speak of things like gerrymandering.