Doc Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 18 hours ago, NoSaint said: oh he who cannot be questioned ever. There are things Beane can be questioned over, but whether or not he looks to flip players for picks before releasing them isn't one.
GunnerBill Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Doc said: There are things Beane can be questioned over, but whether or not he looks to flip players for picks before releasing them isn't one. Doesn't mean this move was necessarily right. That is the point others have made in this thread. The balance is cutting a guy at another spot who will not be on an NFL roster in 2020 vs cutting Long at OL who almost certainly will. One has no value, the other has a value. Maybe McDermott lobbied hard that it had to be an OL because of numbers of practice etc... and that is a legitimate point, but that is the balance people are questioning. Did they assess it correctly? I personally would have held onto Long for longer (no pun intended) in the hope of flipping him right at the end of camp, but equally I have said already this offseason that might be harder this year because the reason teams make desperate moves for vets right before the season is because they convince themselves in camp that "their guys" are good enough and then pre-season games open their eyes and they suddenly realise they have, for example, no depth on their oline. My instinct is that with no pre-season this year teams will manage to hold on to the fantasy they sell themselves about their depth guys for longer.... so might be harder to do the old Beane late August flip. Edited August 10, 2020 by GunnerBill
Doc Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Doesn't mean this move was necessarily right. That is the point others have made in this thread. The balance is cutting a guy at another spot who will not be on an NFL roster in 2020 vs cutting Long at OL who almost certainly will. One has no value, the other has a value. Maybe McDermott lobbied hard that it had to be an OL because of numbers of practice etc... and that is a legitimate point, but that is the balance people are questioning. Did they assess it correctly? I personally would have held onto Long for longer (no pun intended) in the hope of flipping him right at the end of camp, but equally I have said already this offseason that might be harder this year because the reason teams make desperate moves for vets right before the season is because they convince themselves in camp that "their guys" are good enough and then pre-season games open their eyes and they suddenly realise they have, for example, no depth on their oline. My instinct is that with no pre-season this year teams will manage to hold on to the fantasy they sell themselves about their depth guys for longer.... so might be harder to do the old Beane late August flip. If it's as I believe, i.e. that Long demanded his release after the Bills signed Winters, Beane was in a bind. And waiting to trade Long later at his salary would have been a tall order while in the meanwhile you have a disgruntled player on your hands.
GunnerBill Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Doc said: If it's as I believe, i.e. that Long demanded his release after the Bills signed Winters, Beane was in a bind. And waiting to trade Long later at his salary would have been a tall order while in the meanwhile you have a disgruntled player on your hands. For sure, if Long demanded his release then there is little point keeping him. Not seen anything suggesting that though....
Doc Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: For sure, if Long demanded his release then there is little point keeping him. Not seen anything suggesting that though.... That's what makes the most sense. They could have easily afforded to keep him cap-wise until later in training camp.
Malazan Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It is crazy that some people will not have any decision questioned. I am pro the regime. But they haven't got everything right and will not get everything right in future. It is reasonable still to debate the moves they make. sure, but a 9 page thread on Spencer Long? Seems like overkill. I guess we should be glad we can be so nitpicky on inconsequential moves.
GunnerBill Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, jeremy2020 said: sure, but a 9 page thread on Spencer Long? Seems like overkill. I guess we should be glad we can be so nitpicky on inconsequential moves. Well we have little else to talk about.... we don't even have the usual in detail camp reports or "who starts the pre-season games at #2CB and RG" type discussions.
Malazan Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Well we have little else to talk about.... we don't even have the usual in detail camp reports or "who starts the pre-season games at #2CB and RG" type discussions. Fair point
Rocky Landing Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Well we have little else to talk about.... we don't even have the usual in detail camp reports or "who starts the pre-season games at #2CB and RG" type discussions. Astro's in quarantine somewhere...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted August 11, 2020 Posted August 11, 2020 The thing some posters here don’t seem to want to acknowledge is their lack of actual access to what goes on in meetings or with players and coaches. The Oline coach, OC, Head Coach, and GM and other pro scouts made a decision. I will take that collection from this Bills regime over anyone on here who watches tape and reads stats. First hand knowledge of particular situations is a big part of how a decision is reached. 1
Billy Claude Posted August 11, 2020 Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: The thing some posters here don’t seem to want to acknowledge is their lack of actual access to what goes on in meetings or with players and coaches. The Oline coach, OC, Head Coach, and GM and other pro scouts made a decision. I will take that collection from this Bills regime over anyone on here who watches tape and reads stats. First hand knowledge of particular situations is a big part of how a decision is reached. This is a fan message board. If we are not allowed to question any thing Beane does because the fans don`t have the complete story it woukd be a pretty boring place. 2 1
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2020 Posted August 11, 2020 13 hours ago, Billy Claude said: This is a fan message board. If we are not allowed to question any thing Beane does because the fans don`t have the complete story it woukd be a pretty boring place. Exactly. Yea, we don't know every detail... but that same logic would mean we must defer to the regime on everything in which case shut TSW down. 1
Paup 1995MVP Posted August 14, 2020 Posted August 14, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 4:27 PM, Kirby Jackson said: I think Beane has done a phenomenal job. That does not mean I think that it’s perfect. It’s okay to disagree at times. Long played well and has the versatility to play center. That’s important with Feliciano out. He feels like the safest backup IOL. That’s why it’s a surprise. I would have tried to trade somebody first. The Bills have used those depth OL as basically compensatory picks. They had a chance, and still have a chance, to do that. They have the deepest OL in the league. I just don’t think that it’s wise to release solid depth at this point. I agree that Long was solid when he played. Probably his relatively high salary for a mostly backup lineman figured in Beane's decision to release him. Also, it probably gave some more cap flexibility going forward with the big extension given Dawkins a week after releasing Long. I have been pretty vocal about being cautious in extending Dawkins before this season. However, after reading what Dawkins said after getting the big extension, I am definitely more comfortable knowing that the kid has a great head on his shoulders. Hopefully that translates onto the field. 1
thenorthremembers Posted August 14, 2020 Posted August 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said: I agree that Long was solid when he played. Probably his relatively high salary for a mostly backup lineman figured in Beane's decision to release him. Also, it probably gave some more cap flexibility going forward with the big extension given Dawkins a week after releasing Long. I have been pretty vocal about being cautious in extending Dawkins before this season. However, after reading what Dawkins said after getting the big extension, I am definitely more comfortable knowing that the kid has a great head on his shoulders. Hopefully that translates onto the field. Does anyone really remember how well he played last year? He was in on 16% of the offensive snaps, thats like saying you remember anything about TJ Yeldon's season. Very odd this has garnered so much discussion.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2020 Posted August 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Does anyone really remember how well he played last year? He was in on 16% of the offensive snaps, thats like saying you remember anything about TJ Yeldon's season. Very odd this has garnered so much discussion. If you really dig in though it was primarily 3 games (Titans, Den and the finale against the Jets).
Warcodered Posted August 16, 2020 Posted August 16, 2020 Just now, YoloinOhio said: Well that's a thing. 1
Paup 1995MVP Posted August 19, 2020 Posted August 19, 2020 On 8/14/2020 at 1:53 PM, thenorthremembers said: Does anyone really remember how well he played last year? He was in on 16% of the offensive snaps, thats like saying you remember anything about TJ Yeldon's season. Very odd this has garnered so much discussion. Thats a good point. I just know that it did not look like he sucked, like a lot of marginal O lineman look when thrown into the fire.
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