CountDorkula Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 On 8/2/2020 at 9:00 AM, BarleyNY said: Totally agree. Most people aren’t interested in informed debate or even determining what’s really right, they just want to argue their uninformed, preconceived opinion. Yea but they will tell you they did research. AKA they read articles that fit their narrative or from their political affiliate, and skipped the ones that don't. 1
Bill from NYC Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 11:20 PM, inaugural balls said: If they play, I'll watch. So will 99% of this board, despite the many who seem to be taking the alleged "high road." Allow me please to point out that even without covid19, we spend our weekends watching the strongest and most violent men on Earth risk serious injury (if not their lives) on virtually every play. They are only able to make the big money doing so because of people like us. But like anything else, we can pretend otherwise. 1
BarleyNY Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said: So will 99% of this board, despite the many who seem to be taking the alleged "high road." Allow me please to point out that even without covid19, we spend our weekends watching the strongest and most violent men on Earth risk serious injury (if not their lives) on virtually every play. They are only able to make the big money doing so because of people like us. But like anything else, we can pretend otherwise. There’s a big difference here. Football under normal conditions has players taking health risks that have been accurately conveyed to them (recently with regards to CTE at least) and that they deem acceptable. Football under current conditions not only increased the risk to players, but also extended risks to the families - not to mention team staff members, their families, referees, production workers, etc. That needed a separate agreement - which they’ve reached - so I’m good with the NFL giving it a go.
boater Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 7:36 PM, jkeerie said: Costas is right. With the amount of NFL players that, despite being athletes, would be considered obese by medical standards, they are taking a huge risk opting in to the NFL season. Not necessarily. There is a world of difference between an Ordinary Obese person and an Obese Professional Athlete. 1 difference comes to mind: even Obese Professional Athletes are in superb cardio conditioning.
jkeerie Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, boater said: Not necessarily. There is a world of difference between an Ordinary Obese person and an Obese Professional Athlete. 1 difference comes to mind: even Obese Professional Athletes are in superb cardio conditioning. I agree with you but these athletes' future health could be compromised should they lose some lung or cardio capacity due to covid. There is a lot for them to consider not only for their present health but their future as well.
Thurman#1 Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) On 8/4/2020 at 7:37 AM, Locomark said: Ok just curious where you determined your info saying there is “zero evidence about healthy young 300lb guys being susceptible? Um, I didn't. You both misquoted me and totally misunderstood my point. What I said was, "there is zero evidence that 300-pound 25 year old NFL linemen, as opposed to 45-year old 300 pound couch potatoes, are at elevated risk." See the difference there? I'm sure I could have said it much better, but I certainly in no way meant what you apparently thought I did. On 8/4/2020 at 7:37 AM, Locomark said: Ok just curious where you determined your info saying there is “zero evidence about healthy young 300lb guys being susceptible? I trust that guys that are wealthy and have millions at risk have access to some really great medical opinions regarding risk to their health that are better than the anecdotal stuff you find on the internet. I also know that the NFL mega corporation would want to discourage the players from opting out in general because less players hurt the game’s quality. So these opinions are coming from private doctors who aren’t influenced by the NFL steering these guys toward a decision. So these doctors are telling them there is a risk. Just because some kid is young and in shape doesn’t mean a disease can’t get them really sick and jeopardize their future. They also have to consider they may pass that disease to their spouse or children who may not be as healthy as they are. These players are people. They are not indestructible video game avatars. Try reading my post again. If you'd like to disagree again, please feel free. Edited August 5, 2020 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: If you had told me prior to the pandemic, that more than one person would argue that the nation's preeminent infectious disease specialist, a man who serves as an advisor to multiple presidents and other world leaders overly 40 years, who would become the face of 'flattening the curve' to millions of Americans, who has been interviewed, quoted or mentioned by every major media outlet over a 6 month period, who speaks daily about personal accountability and shared responsibility---anyway, if you told me that there were people who didn't think he held a major leadership position in the fight against the pandemic, I'd have thought you mad. We agree on the politicians, 100% across the board. All the more reason for him to step up instead of throwing the hot potato back to those failing us. In closing, Bob Costas, what's up with that guy? Well, you might indeed have thought him mad, but that's because you apparently haven't understood the system. He is an expert on the medicine. The crass Jordan kept pressing him for a political opinion. He's not a politician or an expert on politics. And giving the full range of legitimate medical opinion is NOT throwing the hot potato back, in the sense of abdicating his responsibility. When your job is fully advising on your area of expertise, and you do it, and then point out that the politics is up to the politicians, that's not avoiding your responsibilities. It is perfectly fulfilling them. The only thing he did "wrong" is apparently not to give your opinion rather than what the science tells him to say. Edited August 5, 2020 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 12:46 PM, 2ForMacAdoo said: It's not Dr. Fauci's role to "lead"; he is charged with advising, with making recommendations based on the science. What is a public health issue has become politicized and the entire nation is suffering because of this. We are far from being the world model to be emulated when it comes to controlling the spread of the virus and Anthony Fauci is hardly the problem. Politicians failing to lead are the problem. Yup, exactly. For those who don't remember, here's the transcript again. It stinks of a slimy attempted political hatchet job on a guy who only wants to talk about what the science says. --------------- Representative Jordan: (00:00) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Fauci, do protests increase the spread of the virus? Dr. Fauci: (00:06) Do protest increase the spread of the virus? I think I can make a general statement. Representative Jordan: (00:11) Half a million protestors on June 6th alone. I’m just asking that number of people, does it increase the spread of the virus? Dr. Fauci: (00:16) Crowding together, particularly when you’re not wearing a mask, contributes to the spread of the virus. Representative Jordan: (00:23) Should we limit the protesting? Dr. Fauci: (00:25) I’m not sure what you mean. How do we say limit the protesting? Representative Jordan: (00:29) Should government limit the protesting? Dr. Fauci: (00:33) I don’t think that’s relevant to- Representative Jordan: (00:36) Well, you just said, if it increases the spread of the virus, I’m just asking, should we limit it? Dr. Fauci: (00:40) Well, I’m not in a position to determine what the government can do in a forceful way. Representative Jordan: (00:44) Well, you make all kinds of recommendations. You made comments on dating, on baseball and everything you can imagine. I’m just asking you. You just said protest increased the spread. I’m just asking you should we try to limit the protests? Dr. Fauci: (00:53) No, I think I would leave that to people who have more of an position to do that. I can tell you that- Representative Jordan: (00:59) Government’s stopping people from going to church, Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci: (01:02) Yeah. Representative Jordan: (01:03) Last week in the Calvary Chapel case, five liberals on the Supreme Court said it was okay for Nevada to limit church services. Justice Gorsuch said it best. He said there’s no world in which the Constitution permits Nevada to favor Caesar’s Palace over Calvary chapel. I’m just asking, is there a world where the Constitution says you can favor one First Amendment liberty, protesting, over another, practicing your faith? Dr. Fauci: (01:27) I’m not favoring anybody over anybody. I’m just making a statement that’s a broad statement, that avoid crowds of any type no matter where you are because that leads to the acquisition and transmission. And I don’t judge one crowd versus another crowd. When you’re in a crowd, particularly if you’re not wearing a mask, that induces the spread. Representative Jordan: (01:49) It’s a simple question, Doctor. Should we limit the protests? Government is obviously limiting people going to church. And look, there’s been no violence that I can see at church. I haven’t seen people during a church service go out and harm police officers or burn buildings. But we know that, I mean, for 63 days, nine weeks, it’s been happening in Portland. One night in Chicago, 49 officers were injured, but no limit to protests, but boy, you can’t go to church on Sunday. Dr. Fauci: (02:18) I don’t know how many times I can answer that. I’m not going to opine on limiting anything. I’m just going to tell you- Representative Jordan: (02:23) You’ve opined on a lot of things, Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci: (02:25) Yeah, but I’ve never said to limit anything. Representative Jordan: (02:26) This is something that directly impacts the spread of the virus, and I’m asking your position on the protest. Dr. Fauci: (02:31) Well, I’m not going to opine on limiting anything. I’m telling you what it is, the danger, and you can make your own conclusion about that. You should stay away from crowds no matter where the crowds are. Representative Jordan: (02:44) Government has stopped people from going to work. In fact, just in New Jersey four days ago, Ian Smith, Frank Trumbetti were arrested for opening up from trying to operate their business, their gym. They were arrested. But my bet is if these two individuals who owned this gym were outside just in front of their gym and all the people who are working out in their gym were outside protesting, they’d been just fine, but because they were in the gym working out, actually running their business, they got arrested. You think that’s okay? Dr. Fauci: (03:16) I’m not going to opine it on who gets arrested and who does not. I mean, you get where I’m going? I’m telling you as a public health official. I say crowds- Representative Jordan: (03:25) Do you see the inconsistency, though, Dr. Fauci? Dr. Fauci: (03:27) There’s no inconsistency, Congressman. Representative Jordan: (03:30) So you’re allowed to protest millions of people on one day in crowds, yelling, screaming, but you try to run your business, you get arrested. And if you stood right outside of that same business and protested, you wouldn’t get arrested. You don’t see an inconsistency there? Dr. Fauci: (03:42) I don’t understand what you’re asking me as a public health official to opine on who should get arrested or not. That’s not my position. You could ask me as much as you want and I’m not going to answer it. Representative Jordan: (03:52) You’ve advocated for certain businesses. You’ve advocated for certain businesses to be shut down. I’m just asking you on your position on the protest. I haven’t seen one. We’ve heard a lot about hair salons. I haven’t seen one hairstylist who between haircuts goes out and attacks police or sets something on fire, but we’ve seen all kinds of that stuff during protests. And we know the protest actually increase the spread of the virus. You’ve said that. Dr. Fauci: (04:16) I said crowds. I didn’t say specifically, I didn’t say protests do anything. Representative Jordan: (04:21) So the protests don’t increase the spread of the virus? Dr. Fauci: (04:23) I didn’t say that. You’re putting words in my mouth. Representative Jordan: (04:26) I just want an answer to the question. Do the protests increase the spread of the virus? Dr. Fauci: (04:30) I don’t have any scientific evidence that anything I can tell you that crowds are known, particularly when you don’t have a mask, to increase the acquisition and transmission, no matter what the crowd is. Representative Jordan: (04:41) So you don’t have a position on whether the protests increased the spread of the virus or don’t increase the spread of the virus? Dr. Fauci: (04:48) I’m saying that crowds, wherever the crowds are, can give you an increased probability that is going to be acquisition and transmission. Representative Jordan: (04:57) But do you understand American’s concern? Protesting, particularly according to the Democrats is just fine, but you can’t go to work. You can’t go to school. You can’t go to church. There’s limits placed on all three of those fundamental activities, First Amendment activities, but protesting is just fine. Mr. Clyburn: (05:17) The gentleman’s time has expired. ----------------------
Doc Brown Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 48 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Representative Jordan: (03:52) You’ve advocated for certain businesses. You’ve advocated for certain businesses to be shut down. I’m just asking you on your position on the protest. I haven’t seen one. We’ve heard a lot about hair salons. I haven’t seen one hairstylist who between haircuts goes out and attacks police or sets something on fire, but we’ve seen all kinds of that stuff during protests. And we know the protest actually increase the spread of the virus. You’ve said that. ---------------------- That's where it tells me he's trying to score political points. Most of the protests have been peaceful. He made a good point that Fauci has advocated for businesses to be shut down, avoid restaurants and bars, etc but wouldn't commit to urge people not to protest. Jordan would've looked better just making that point.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Well, you might indeed have thought him mad, but that's because you apparently haven't understood the system. He is an expert on the medicine. The crass Jordan kept pressing him for a political opinion. He's not a politician or an expert on politics. And giving the full range of legitimate medical opinion is NOT throwing the hot potato back, in the sense of abdicating his responsibility. When your job is fully advising on your area of expertise, and you do it, and then point out that the politics is up to the politicians, that's not avoiding your responsibilities. It is perfectly fulfilling them. The only thing he did "wrong" is apparently not to give your opinion rather than what the science tells him to say. It seems futile to argue a point that we'll never agree on. You've got a bug up your a%% about a politician being political, and in that regard, join the crowd. As for the 'system', fundamental to understanding a 'system' is understanding what a system is: Funding for NIAID: From the organization on August 15, 2018: Congress appropriates our funds. Before that happens, NIAID prepares a budget justification that goes to NIH, HHS, and the Office of Management and Budget. It then becomes part of the Department's budget justification, which is part of the President's budget request to Congress for the next fiscal year. As NIH is part of the executive branch of the federal government, NIH defends the President's budget before Congress during the appropriations hearings in March or April. Congress then prepares and must pass its own appropriations legislation, which the president signs into law. The NIAID received $5,000,000,000+ from the federal government in 2020. It IS the system. As for Dr. Fauci's role, again, from the NIAID website, this one last updated in November, 2015, 4.5 years before Jordan got you all twisted around: NIAID Organization Office of the Director The Office of the Director (OD) provides scientific leadership, policy guidance, and overall operational and administrative coordination for the Institute. Even if Jim Jordan got out of his chair, walked over to Dr. Fauci and personally accused him of importing COVID from a wet market in the Guandong province, in a test tube secreted in his raincoat and sprinkled on bowls of Raisin Bran in nursing homes across the country, it does not change the fact that you. are. wrong.
DefenseWins Posted August 6, 2020 Author Posted August 6, 2020 https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/health/obesity-covid-vaccine-effectiveness-wellness/index.html
CEN-CAL17 Posted August 6, 2020 Posted August 6, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 6:03 PM, DefenseWins said: see Bob Costas question about NFL players Corona risk factors at about the 4:05 mark... My question is.... day of the game. All players, coaches etc will be tested probably 2-3 days everyday leading up to the game. If everyone on the field is negative... what’s the likelihood someone contracts the virus from the field?
CEN-CAL17 Posted August 6, 2020 Posted August 6, 2020 I mean, would you feel uncomfortable if 20 of your friends tested everyday for 4 days prior to you guys going to a bar by yourselves and acting normal. No face masks, no distancing... you all tested negative and you are the only ones there. Been clean for a week. All tested. You gonna worry about getting the virus from them? Not saying the NFL is fail proof.... but if everyone on the field has tested negative for days everyday leading up to the game, how easy is it going to be to get the virus on the field?
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