aceman_16 Posted August 2, 2020 Posted August 2, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 2:55 PM, Buffalo716 said: Josh is about to become a superstar I'll be the first to admit I didn't really want him on draft night. I thought he had great talent but I didn't think we had the coaching staff to develop somebody like that I was wrong and Im glad I was 100% this was me. I was a Baker fan. I liked Josh in the 2nd round. I am very happy I dont do QB evaluations for a living.....and will happily continue to eat crow!
PromoTheRobot Posted August 2, 2020 Posted August 2, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 6:42 PM, Don Otreply said: I don’t think he will be effected in any negative fashion, Josh Allen has his eyes on the prize, if I can borrow such a historical phrase. Go Bills!!! This is why I'm a Josh believer. He had to fight to get to every level. Guys like him don't give up. 1
ComradeKayAdams Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 5:37 PM, Gene1973 said: I wonder if a player like Allen will be helped or hurt that there are no fans. Didn’t Josh play more efficiently on the road last year? Maybe playing in front of large and rabid home crowds works against him at this early stage of his career. Josh plays with such emotion, so having no fans at all to impress and who pump him up may force Josh to settle down and focus on the cerebral aspects of the position. All this great discussion about Josh’s passing potential, but don’t forget his scrambling ability!! I really hope the additions of Diggs and Moss doesn’t mean Daboll will minimize such a unique game-breaking component to Josh’s game. It’s likely key for the offensive game plan to have him run about 5 times a game, whether improvised or drawn up that way. Here’s my own representation of an ideal workload for Buffalo’s 2020 offense: Allen: 5 rushes, 30 passes Singletary: 15 rushes, 3 receiving targets Moss: 10 rushes, 2 receiving targets Knox: 4 targets Beasley: 6 targets Brown: 7 targets Diggs: 8 targets It’s equally balanced between running and passing, with a lovely pass distribution to keep defenses guessing. This should optimize everyone’s talent and give Josh his best chance for a Pro Bowl nomination. 1
NoSaint Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 11:59 PM, MJS said: He was night and day different on the long throws after the Pats game. It's like he was scared to throw them and ALWAYS made sure to lead the receiver too much. He needs to get his confidence back and be willing to throw it where the receiver can catch it. The good thing is his turnovers went way down after that game too, but he needs to really work on that area and be willing to give his receivers a fighting chance for the reception, especially Diggs who is great at contested catches. One thing that always drive me nuts with ej was the ultra conservative long and outside placement on deep balls. it felt consistent enough to be the product of “put it where only your guy can make a play” coaching but resulted in rarely being able to make plays because it was so risk averse. I’m hopeful the josh will at some point really let it rip on these and expect a guy like diggs outmatch the corner on contested balls. 1
GunnerBill Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, NoSaint said: One thing that always drive me nuts with ej was the ultra conservative long and outside placement on deep balls. it felt consistent enough to be the product of “put it where only your guy can make a play” coaching but resulted in rarely being able to make plays because it was so risk averse. I’m hopeful the josh will at some point really let it rip on these and expect a guy like diggs outmatch the corner on contested balls. There was definitely a bit of that in the run between Pats 1 and Cleveland. Most people had Pats 1 as Josh's worst game of the season. I didn't, I had the Browns because it was the nadir for conservative Josh. They had stressed limiting turnovers to an extent after New England that the decisive, rhythm passing we saw in the first 3 games had given way to a tentative, ball holding, conservative Quarterback. Against the Browns he was Tyrodish. There were open Bills receivers running free and Josh was not trusting his eyes and was holding the ball, double clutching..... it was ugly. He didn't have many bad throws that night.... but you always miss the plays you don't attempt and had Josh made 2 or 3 simple plays that were there to be made we would have won that game. Credit to McDermott and the play fearless mantra that followed because Josh got back to being more of a gunslinger after that. Josh might not win us a Superbowl as a gunslinger, maybe he will always make too many mistakes playing that way.... but I guarantee he will never win us one as a dink and dunk, cautious Quarterback. It just isn't who he is and that style of football doesn't suit him. He needs the ball in his hands, coaches who trust him to throw and the license to go off script when the situation demands it. If Josh is going to be a superstar.... and while I am not as sold as some others I am encouraged by his direction of travel... then that is the only way it happens. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 It’s put up or shut up. Sick of the excuses. He’s the highest drafted qb in franchise history. If this guy can’t get to 60% passing (average) for the first time in his entire career, he’s not the guy. no more hearing about everyone around him suck; his college coach (Carson Wentz’ coach) didn’t prepare him; it get s windy and cold; etc. etc. Be a guy who can win from pocket and do it consistently. 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: There was definitely a bit of that in the run between Pats 1 and Cleveland. Most people had Pats 1 as Josh's worst game of the season. I didn't, I had the Browns because it was the nadir for conservative Josh. They had stressed limiting turnovers to an extent after New England that the decisive, rhythm passing we saw in the first 3 games had given way to a tentative, ball holding, conservative Quarterback. Against the Browns he was Tyrodish. There were open Bills receivers running free and Josh was not trusting his eyes and was holding the ball, double clutching..... it was ugly. He didn't have many bad throws that night.... but you always miss the plays you don't attempt and had Josh made 2 or 3 simple plays that were there to be made we would have won that game. Credit to McDermott and the play fearless mantra that followed because Josh got back to being more of a gunslinger after that. Josh might not win us a Superbowl as a gunslinger, maybe he will always make too many mistakes playing that way.... but I guarantee he will never win us one as a dink and dunk, cautious Quarterback. It just isn't who he is and that style of football doesn't suit him. He needs the ball in his hands, coaches who trust him to throw and the license to go off script when the situation demands it. If Josh is going to be a superstar.... and while I am not as sold as some others I am encouraged by his direction of travel... then that is the only way it happens. It’s so tricky though. Personally, I want to see if he can win games with his arm. At the same point, they win a lot of games by basically not having the offense screw up, defense keep the game close, and get a late score to win. I remember waiting to turn JP Losman loose and then it became clear turning him loose resulted in a lot of terrible plays. The Bills can win a lot of games with average to below average qb play. I just want for the first time in a long time (I think Fitz did a few times), for us to leave a game and say man did our qb single handedly win us that game. 1
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s put up or shut up. Sick of the excuses. He’s the highest drafted qb in franchise history. If this guy can’t get to 60% passing (average) for the first time in his entire career, he’s not the guy. no more hearing about everyone around him suck; his college coach (Carson Wentz’ coach) didn’t prepare him; it get s windy and cold; etc. etc. Be a guy who can win from pocket and do it consistently. blah blah blah; you're like a broken record who repeats the same "Sick of excuses; 60% threshold) every thread about the QB. We know this from you, and we also know you think he is a "Nice Guy"; and we also know you treat a career 59% passer as a God in these forums.
GunnerBill Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s so tricky though. Personally, I want to see if he can win games with his arm. At the same point, they win a lot of games by basically not having the offense screw up, defense keep the game close, and get a late score to win. I remember waiting to turn JP Losman loose and then it became clear turning him loose resulted in a lot of terrible plays. The Bills can win a lot of games with average to below average qb play. I just want for the first time in a long time (I think Fitz did a few times), for us to leave a game and say man did our qb single handedly win us that game. I agree. I have no interest in hiding our Quarterback. Some of the folks who are on to Daboll to run it more want that because it removes any chance of Josh failing. I am not interested in that and more critically it is not who he is. He is a bad Quarterback in a run, run, pass, rinse and repeat offense. All QBs are better in rhythm but at this point the difference with Josh is more pronounced than most. He wants the ball in his hands. I think he is better that way. If they just want to ask Josh not to screw up I am not sure we will ever really find out who he is. Let the kid throw.
Big Blitz Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 The following is a list of the top 10 players that when they're on TV, you MUST watch. In no particular order: Mahomes Lamar Aaron Donald Josh Allen Watson Saquan Derek Henry Christian McCaffrey Quenton Nelson (oline bias but its fact) Russel Wilson Who would you take out and put in?
GoBills808 Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 On 8/3/2020 at 4:55 AM, GunnerBill said: I agree. I have no interest in hiding our Quarterback. Some of the folks who are on to Daboll to run it more want that because it removes any chance of Josh failing. I am not interested in that and more critically it is not who he is. He is a bad Quarterback in a run, run, pass, rinse and repeat offense. All QBs are better in rhythm but at this point the difference with Josh is more pronounced than most. He wants the ball in his hands. I think he is better that way. If they just want to ask Josh not to screw up I am not sure we will ever really find out who he is. Let the kid throw. Ridiculous. Find one person who feels this way.
GunnerBill Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Ridiculous. Find one person who feels this way. I can't remember the poster's name but there is a guy all season who has been advocating we develop Josh like the Ravens developed Joe Flacco with a run heavy offense and limiting him to 20 throws a game.
GoBills808 Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I can't remember the poster's name but there is a guy all season who has been advocating we develop Josh like the Ravens developed Joe Flacco with a run heavy offense and limiting him to 20 throws a game. People don't like Daboll because he does weird ***** at bad times and can't put a whole game together successfully. Which is a large reason we lost a chance last year at advancing to divisional round in AFC. THAT'S why people don't like Daboll. It has nothing to do with 'removing any chance of Josh failing'. To insinuate that there are people who dislike Daboll because they're more concerned with being right on Allen than the success of the team...that sounds like projecting if you ask me.
GunnerBill Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: People don't like Daboll because he does weird ***** at bad times and can't put a whole game together successfully. Which is a large reason we lost a chance last year at advancing to divisional round in AFC. THAT'S why people don't like Daboll. It has nothing to do with 'removing any chance of Josh failing'. To insinuate that there are people who dislike Daboll because they're more concerned with being right on Allen than the success of the team...that sounds like projecting if you ask me. There are people who don't like Daboll cos they want to baby Allen. I don't think it is that they cwre more about being right on him.... it is just that is legitimately how they believe you develop a Quarterback. Philosophically I disagree with that. And it isn't projection. There have been people on this forum making that argument. I am not saying everyone who dislikes Daboll dislikes him for that reason and you are being disingenuous insinuating that is what I am saying. One of the reasons I am higher than most on Daboll is because he has exposed to Josh to pretty much everything in two years. They have asked him to make plays, they have put games in his hands at times when the 'safe' play was the run it. That is what I want them to do. Especially last year. I said at the start of the season I thought we were a 10 win team but that Allen's development was more important than making the playoffs. Trying to turn him into a QB who rarely gets asked to make the play isn't developing him and when they got too conservative mid season I said that again.
ExWNYer Posted August 4, 2020 Posted August 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I can't remember the poster's name but there is a guy all season who has been advocating we develop Josh like the Ravens developed Joe Flacco with a run heavy offense and limiting him to 20 throws a game. Yeah, no thanks. It's not 1973 when rookie QB Joe Ferguson set a Bills record for fewest pass attempts in a season (164). Turn the kid loose and see what he can do. If McDermott and Beane are as intelligent as most believe, then they should have figured out by now that sustained winning in today's NFL is predicated on a very good, if not explosive, offense not a great defense. Relying on your defense to carry you year in and year out is not a sustainable model for success as defensive volatility is too great from season to season. The Bills will be faced with some tough financial decisions regarding their D very soon which could set it back from the elite status it currently has. An average offense will not overcome an average defense. Defensive guru or not, McDermott will last longer as a Head Coach in the league if he establishes a great offense and an average defense than he will the other way around.
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