SectionC3 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Haushka? I was wondering about him I won’t say bc I don’t want to alert the public to an empty house (assuming it’s still empty). But it’s not hauschka. Or kroft, as might have been suggested by next post. 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: While I haven't come close to figuring out how they will handle the salary cap results of guys opting out, the reports are that only either $5 mill (as reported by Gaughan of the News) or $4.5 mill (the guaranteed base salary he was supposed to receive this year which will now be delayed till next year) will be saved from this year's cap. I can't figure out which it will be, $4.5 or $5 mill, to me, there's $500K missing somewhere. So you'd probably do better just going with Gaughan and assuming it'll be $5 mill. Apparently the roster bonus, the work out bonus and the appropriated portion of the signing bonus will count against this year's cap. And it's certainly far from impossible that some portion of that $5 mill will go towards bringing in someone to take over Lotulelei's role this year. We'll see if they find that necessary. His next year's salary is guaranteed. And $2 mill from the year beyond that. While it's certainly not impossible that he can't make the roster next year, he'll likely be given every chance by the Bills to earn his money. I wondered if Kroft would bail for the same reason. Young guy, guaranteed for this year from what I understand. If that’s true, not a huge incentive to take the risk. Edited July 29, 2020 by SectionC3 1
Thurman#1 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't agreed that he has been "far above average as a 1-tech space eater." And this is the thing with Star, whenever you criticise him you get a bunch of people saying "whoa, you don't understand his job." No. I do. I understand his job. I just think he has been bang solid, league average at it. Not a disaster, but never dominant. There have been games where he has played well and games where he has been moved off his spot far too easily for a guy paid like a top 5 1-tech. If the argument is "well the Bills had a need and overpaid for a guy who they knew fitted the scheme" then fine. I still think it is a bad contract but I at least get the argument. If the argument is that his play has somehow lived up to the contract to the extent that it is not a bad contract then I am sorry, it really hasn't. Bill, what you've got there is an opinion. And knowing you, a very educated one. And I don't think you'll find anyone, certainly not me, saying that he's been "dominant." But well above average at one portion of his job? Yeah. It's a reasonable opinion, held by many. Including, apparently, the Bills. I don't have the slightest doubt you understand his job, Bill. But the Bills, among others, seem to have wanted and continue to want him here, at the terms they agreed on in his contract and his re-negotiation, which was not a major cut and had a major carrot in it for Lotulelei in the guaranteed money. Do you really think it would be all that difficult to find a "bang-solid, league average" guy at that role, a role that is not needed by all that many teams, for less than Lotulelei gets? And yet the Bills two separate times have declared their satisfaction with the guy, first by signing him to the original contract and then by cutting $2 mill out of a $40 mill contract which had $20 mill remaining on it. And yet they were willing to guarantee the first remaining year and a chunk of the second remaining year. The reason they were willing to make those guarantees almost has to be that they like the guy at the price. When you hire a desirable FA on a second contract you're going to have to overpay a bit. Nature of the beast. But if they thought he was easily replaced for much cheaper, they had every chance to do so. How many space eaters are above him on the average salary lists? They could have gotten one cheaper this offseason in particular ... if they'd wanted to. He does what they want. At a price they consider worth it. On an extremely good defense built by a very canny defensive coach, with a contract approved by a very canny GM who appears to communicate extremely well with the head coach. And if you really feel that he really hasn't "lived up to the contract that it is not a bad contract" to the point that it's a fact, then among the people whose opinions you apparently disagree with are McDermott and Beane, who are far more important in this than many others who disagree with you, including me. Edited July 29, 2020 by Thurman#1 2
JMF2006 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 Well I guess we and the Bills find his true value this year. If the run D improves then he is a disposable asset. If the run D sucks then we need him back for 2021
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Bill, what you've got there is an opinion. And knowing you, a very educated one. And I don't think you'll find anyone, certainly not me, saying that he's been "dominant." But well above average at one portion of his job? Yeah. It's a reasonable opinion, held by many. Including, apparently, the Bills. I don't have the slightest doubt you understand his job, Bill. But the Bills, among others, seem to have wanted and continue to want him here, at the terms they agreed on in his contract and his re-negotiation, which was not a major cut and had a major carrot in it for Lotulelei in the guaranteed money. Do you really think it would be all that difficult to find a "bang-solid, league average" guy at that role, a role that is not needed by all that many teams, for less than Lotulelei gets? And yet the Bills two separate times have declared their satisfaction with the guy, first by signing him to the original contract and then by cutting $2 mill out of a $40 mill contract which had $20 mill remaining on it. And yet they were willing to guarantee the first remaining year and a chunk of the second remaining year. The reason they were willing to make those guarantees almost has to be that they like the guy at the price. When you hire a desirable FA on a second contract you're going to have to overpay a bit. Nature of the beast. But if they thought he was easily replaced for much cheaper, they had every chance to do so. How many space eaters are above him on the average salary lists? They could have gotten one cheaper this offseason in particular ... if they'd wanted to. He does what they want. At a price they consider worth it. On an extremely good defense built by a very canny defensive coach, with a contract approved by a very canny GM who appears to communicate extremely well with the head coach. And if you really feel that he really hasn't "lived up to the contract that it is not a bad contract" to the point that it's a fact, then among the people whose opinions you apparently disagree with are McDermott and Beane, who are far more important in this than many others who disagree with you, including me. I do disagree with Beane and McDermott on Star - yep. I am very comfortable doing so. I think they have got a lot right in Buffalo, but I think they got this wrong. Although they are coming around, because the pay cut and restructure was designed to enable the Bills to get out after 2020. They cut money and they moved other money from 2021 into 2020. I am absolutely certain that this was due to be his last year as a Bill. It won't be now of course.... but that was the plan. If they thought he had played up to his valuation in 2019 then I am not sure why they would make that move. They made it because they saw inconsistent play and they wanted to give themselves the chance to get out a year earlier than originally planed. As for where he sits there are about half a dozen 0/1 techs above him on the salary list now (some comparable scheme fit wise a couple of others not so much) he was the highest paid 0/1 tech when he signed. I understand that is the nature of the beast in free agency but the guy then has to be more than average for the first couple of years of his contract and average is what Star has been. The reason McDermott and Beane overpaid for Star in my opinion was because they overvalued scheme knowledge and undervalued actual talent level. He hasn't been a disaster, and it certainly isn't fireable, but one of the worst moves this regime has made? Certainly. Second only to Kelvin Benjamin for me. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I do disagree with Beane and McDermott on Star - yep. I am very comfortable doing so. I think they have got a lot right in Buffalo, but I think they got this wrong. Although they are coming around, because the pay cut and restructure was designed to enable the Bills to get out after 2020. They cut money and they moved other money from 2021 into 2020. I am absolutely certain that this was due to be his last year as a Bill. It won't be now of course.... but that was the plan. If they thought he had played up to his valuation in 2019 then I am not sure why they would make that move. They made it because they saw inconsistent play and they wanted to give themselves the chance to get out a year earlier than originally planed. As for where he sits there are about half a dozen 0/1 techs above him on the salary list now (some comparable scheme fit wise a couple of others not so much) he was the highest paid 0/1 tech when he signed. I understand that is the nature of the beast in free agency but the guy then has to be more than average for the first couple of years of his contract and average is what Star has been. The reason McDermott and Beane overpaid for Star in my opinion was because they overvalued scheme knowledge and undervalued actual talent level. He hasn't been a disaster, and it certainly isn't fireable, but one of the worst moves this regime has made? Certainly. Second only to Kelvin Benjamin for me. Star and Murphy have been their only bad moves on defense. They been great otherwise. now offense is a much different story.
Mr. WEO Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 Dude opted out as soon as he signed that contract. Adios, bruv...
SectionC3 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I do disagree with Beane and McDermott on Star - yep. I am very comfortable doing so. I think they have got a lot right in Buffalo, but I think they got this wrong. Although they are coming around, because the pay cut and restructure was designed to enable the Bills to get out after 2020. They cut money and they moved other money from 2021 into 2020. I am absolutely certain that this was due to be his last year as a Bill. It won't be now of course.... but that was the plan. If they thought he had played up to his valuation in 2019 then I am not sure why they would make that move. They made it because they saw inconsistent play and they wanted to give themselves the chance to get out a year earlier than originally planed. As for where he sits there are about half a dozen 0/1 techs above him on the salary list now (some comparable scheme fit wise a couple of others not so much) he was the highest paid 0/1 tech when he signed. I understand that is the nature of the beast in free agency but the guy then has to be more than average for the first couple of years of his contract and average is what Star has been. The reason McDermott and Beane overpaid for Star in my opinion was because they overvalued scheme knowledge and undervalued actual talent level. He hasn't been a disaster, and it certainly isn't fireable, but one of the worst moves this regime has made? Certainly. Second only to Kelvin Benjamin for me. The Benjamin trade sucked. But it was a drought-buster. Not many guys make his TD catch against Indy in the snow. 1
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 Honestly, I'm ready to say goodbye. I know he's guaranteed money but at a certain point I think it is a sunk cost. Are they putting Espensa in his spot?
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 36 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Honestly, I'm ready to say goodbye. I know he's guaranteed money but at a certain point I think it is a sunk cost. Are they putting Espensa in his spot? At 1tech? I doubt it. Harrison Phillips if healthy would be next in line, but Vernon Butler played there a lot as well in Carolina (he played 1 and 3) so that is another option. 2
Chandler#81 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 I can just see the made for TV movie now. ‘How a Star got Wally Pipped -the true story of Horrible Harry Phillips’.
eball Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 I think the Bills were ready to move on from Star after this season, and it sucks that he will now have such a huge dead cap hit if they cut him in 2021. For him, though, it was probably the smart thing to do. 3
FireChans Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Bill, what you've got there is an opinion. And knowing you, a very educated one. And I don't think you'll find anyone, certainly not me, saying that he's been "dominant." But well above average at one portion of his job? Yeah. It's a reasonable opinion, held by many. Including, apparently, the Bills. I don't have the slightest doubt you understand his job, Bill. But the Bills, among others, seem to have wanted and continue to want him here, at the terms they agreed on in his contract and his re-negotiation, which was not a major cut and had a major carrot in it for Lotulelei in the guaranteed money. Do you really think it would be all that difficult to find a "bang-solid, league average" guy at that role, a role that is not needed by all that many teams, for less than Lotulelei gets? And yet the Bills two separate times have declared their satisfaction with the guy, first by signing him to the original contract and then by cutting $2 mill out of a $40 mill contract which had $20 mill remaining on it. And yet they were willing to guarantee the first remaining year and a chunk of the second remaining year. The reason they were willing to make those guarantees almost has to be that they like the guy at the price. When you hire a desirable FA on a second contract you're going to have to overpay a bit. Nature of the beast. But if they thought he was easily replaced for much cheaper, they had every chance to do so. How many space eaters are above him on the average salary lists? They could have gotten one cheaper this offseason in particular ... if they'd wanted to. He does what they want. At a price they consider worth it. On an extremely good defense built by a very canny defensive coach, with a contract approved by a very canny GM who appears to communicate extremely well with the head coach. And if you really feel that he really hasn't "lived up to the contract that it is not a bad contract" to the point that it's a fact, then among the people whose opinions you apparently disagree with are McDermott and Beane, who are far more important in this than many others who disagree with you, including me. You misunderstood the pay cut. It was a move to get out of Star’s contract earlier. The McBeane opinion of Star is inching closer to Gunner’s
GoBills808 Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I don't agreed that he has been "far above average as a 1-tech space eater." And this is the thing with Star, whenever you criticise him you get a bunch of people saying "whoa, you don't understand his job." No. I do. I understand his job. I just think he has been bang solid, league average at it. Not a disaster, but never dominant. There have been games where he has played well and games where he has been moved off his spot far too easily for a guy paid like a top 5 1-tech. If the argument is "well the Bills had a need and overpaid for a guy who they knew fitted the scheme" then fine. I still think it is a bad contract but I at least get the argument. If the argument is that his play has somehow lived up to the contract to the extent that it is not a bad contract then I am sorry, it really hasn't. No. Maybe YOU understand his job maybe you don't, but the vast majority of people who kept moaning about what Lotulelei was or wasn't doing clearly had no idea what they were talking about. This went on for an entire 20 page thread last year at one point. He did the job they brought him in for. Maybe they overpaid a bit for the security, it certainly wouldn't be the first time. And also it worked.
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No. Maybe YOU understand his job maybe you don't, but the vast majority of people who kept moaning about what Lotulelei was or wasn't doing clearly had no idea what they were talking about. This went on for an entire 20 page thread last year at one point. He did the job they brought him in for. Maybe they overpaid a bit for the security, it certainly wouldn't be the first time. And also it worked. He "did the job." But that is kind of it.
DrDawkinstein Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: His next year's salary is guaranteed. And $2 mill from the year beyond that. While it's certainly not impossible that he can't make the roster next year, he'll likely be given every chance by the Bills to earn his money. I wonder if this could turn into a situation where the Bills "threaten" Star with making the team next year and having to play to get his money, in order to push him to be the one to retire so we get that money back.
Niagara Dude Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 11:39 AM, MAJBobby said: To be a great team and win in the playoffs your team needs play makers, i think we have a couple on offensive side and now need to cut Murphy and sign Clowney.
Reneth Gilne Posted July 30, 2020 Posted July 30, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 9:07 AM, NewEra said: It’s one comment in one thread on one bills message board. Stop thinking it’s more than it is. yes. I hope there’s a season. I’m praying that they can somehow make this happen. Seeing that the Marlins now have 18 positive tests (among other things), in a non contact sport makes me think that this is very unlikely to work. sorry I’m not as positive as you and others. Use the ignore function if I’m draining your soul Its just one more dork trying to sound "right" about not having a season so they can say "i told you so" meanwhile a positive test means nothing more than they are now immune. How many are actually sick? Do you know? No you dont...and probably none. Saying the "world wide pandemic" makes you sound legit until you accept its only a problem if you live in a nursing home or are obese and diabetic or 85. Ie normal high risk individuals to any flu. "Look mommy- i told the board theyd cancel the season" 1
Coach Tuesday Posted July 30, 2020 Posted July 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Reneth Gilne said: Its just one more dork trying to sound "right" about not having a season so they can say "i told you so" meanwhile a positive test means nothing more than they are now immune. How many are actually sick? Do you know? No you dont...and probably none. Saying the "world wide pandemic" makes you sound legit until you accept its only a problem if you live in a nursing home or are obese and diabetic or 85. Ie normal high risk individuals to any flu. "Look mommy- i told the board theyd cancel the season" ^^^^^^ This right here is why America is slipping into decay. Proudly uninformed drivel dressed up in neon lights. 1 1
NewEra Posted July 30, 2020 Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Reneth Gilne said: Its just one more dork trying to sound "right" about not having a season so they can say "i told you so" meanwhile a positive test means nothing more than they are now immune. How many are actually sick? Do you know? No you dont...and probably none. Saying the "world wide pandemic" makes you sound legit until you accept its only a problem if you live in a nursing home or are obese and diabetic or 85. Ie normal high risk individuals to any flu. "Look mommy- i told the board theyd cancel the season" “Look mommy- I told the dork on the board that he was just trying to......uh. I don’t even know what I was trying to say, but I went off!!!”. cool story bro. Now go back to the basement where you belong Edited July 30, 2020 by NewEra
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 30, 2020 Posted July 30, 2020 On 7/28/2020 at 12:12 PM, Protocal69 said: I would not be surprised to Patrick Peterson opting out. He has type 2 diabetes and has a lot of money Opt out tracker (NFL) https://www.nfl.com/news/list-of-nfl-players-to-opt-out-of-2020-season I am this virus' soupe du jour...hell, soup of the year. Over 50: ✔️ Obese (based upon 6' and over 220lbs): ✔️ Type 2 Diabetic: ✔️ Respiratory issues: ✔️ And based upon a recent article...baldness: ✔️ I wear a mask, social distance and wash my hands...but man I am Jesse Ventura to the virus' Predator.
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