Has MLB shown a "non-bubble" plan is doomed for failure?

[uticaclub]

On 7/28/2020 at 6:22 PM, billsfan89 said:

 

I live just South of LA and ***** bowling alleys and strip clubs were open after Memorial Day. It was insanely stupid.

Rates were so low during quarantine, you couldn’t keep things closed forever when every week hundreds of local healthcare workers were laid off because there was no work for them. We need to let this thing purge through, its the only way to get things back to normal

Edited August 1, 2020 by uticaclub

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Rates were so low during quarantine, you couldn’t keep things closed forever when every week hundreds of local healthcare workers were laid off because there was no work for them. We need to let this thing purge through, its the only way to get things back to normal

 

Look at nations in the EU, Asia and Canada, they reopened once they had sustained low positivity rates for a month like the science says and they aren't seeing a surge. The US lowered rates but then reopened in a disorganized fashion far sooner than the science said.

 

"Herd Immunity" is a moronic strategy. Sweden the darling of that idea had only 10% of the population had anti bodies and you need 60% to reach herd immunity. They basically admitted their own failure. So no you don't have to just let it "blow through"

[QCity]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29576838/sources-more-st-louis-cardinals-test-positive-coronavirus

 

St. Louis games postponed. Double-header games will now be only 7 innings long.

 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, QCity said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29576838/sources-more-st-louis-cardinals-test-positive-coronavirus

 

St. Louis games postponed. Double-header games will now be only 7 innings long.

 

 

Manfred threatening Players Union head with cancelling the season as early as Monday if he can't get the players in line.

 

Good luck with that...

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Look at nations in the EU, Asia and Canada, they reopened once they had sustained low positivity rates for a month like the science says and they aren't seeing a surge. The US lowered rates but then reopened in a disorganized fashion far sooner than the science said.

 

"Herd Immunity" is a moronic strategy. Sweden the darling of that idea had only 10% of the population had anti bodies and you need 60% to reach herd immunity. They basically admitted their own failure. So no you don't have to just let it "blow through"

 

Except for New York, New Jersey and Connecticut which followed CDC guidelines for not only cases but also positivity rates and contact tracing before reopening. In fact Erie County was delayed by a day or two from starting Phase 1 because they hadn't finished training the contract tracers they hired...

 

Cuomo was not playing and still is not playing. He laid the hammer down in terms of aggressive responses erring on the side of caution because of what happened in NYC early on and it worked. Still is. New York was 28th in the nation yesterday for new cases.

[LabattBlue]

58 minutes ago, QCity said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29576838/sources-more-st-louis-cardinals-test-positive-coronavirus

 

St. Louis games postponed. Double-header games will now be only 7 innings long.

 

When they cancel more games and have to play triple headers, will they only be 5 innings?

[Alphadawg7]

On 7/28/2020 at 7:11 AM, Tisker A Tasker said:

Somehow the Premier League was able to play without a bubble for nearly three months with only 20 positive tests. More contact in soccer than baseball as well.  Perhaps there is something they are doing right that the NFL can learn from.

 

Here's the data:

 

Round 1: 17-18 May - 748 tested, with six testing positive from three clubs.
Round 2: 19-22 May - 996 tested, with two testing positive from two clubs.
Round 3: 25-26 May - 1,008 tested, with four testing positive from two clubs.
Round 4: 28-29 May - 1,130 tested, with zero testing positive.
Round 5: 1-2 June - 1,197 tested, with one testing positive.
Round 6: 4-5 June - 1,195 tested, with zero testing positive.
Round 7: 8-9 June - 1,213 tested, with one testing positive.
Round 8: 11-12 June - 1,200 tested, with two testing positive from two clubs.
Round 9: 15-16 June - 1,541 tested, with one testing positive.
Round 10: 17-21 June - 1,829 tested, with one testing positive.
Round 11: 22-28 June - 2,250 tested, with one testing positive.
Round 12: 29 June-5 July - 1,973 tested, with zero testing positive.
Round 13: 6-12 July - 2,071 tested, with one testing positive.
Round 14: 13-19 July - 2,208 tested, with zero testing positive.

Round 15: 20-26 July - 1,574 tested, with zero testing positive.

 

I think this is more evidence of how other Nations have been substantially better at controlling COVID than the US.  Those other countries did not have its leadership, and the media that supports that leadership push misinformation, downplay the need for a mask, or even openly mock those wearing masks for the past 3 months.  The result has been those other countries having substantially better results on slowing the spread, and even eradicating COVID all together in some places while our American arrogance and ignorance has only pushed the spread up and up to the point we are setting records almost daily for new cases and new deaths.  

 

So while that is encouraging to see this data, I don't think its really that applicable to the mess that is COVID in the US ad what our sports league really face thanks to 40% of our country who still think this global issue is about Trump's re-election bid instead of a global pandemic we all need to take serious and unite in our efforts to do what is necessary to slow it down.  

 

Its just one more major "I told you so" that 40% of this country that will continue to ignore and make political excuses for this despite the fact the virus doesn't care about politics or who you vote for.  

 

We honestly need to update the Pledge of Allegiance in this country from "One nation, indivisible" into "Two nations, divided by party" because that is all we are anymore.  

Edited August 1, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[njbuff]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think this is more evidence of how other Nations have been substantially better at controlling COVID than the US.  Those other countries did not have its leadership, and the media that supports that leadership push misinformation, downplay the need for a mask, or even openly mock those wearing masks for the past 3 months.  The result has been those other countries having substantially better results on slowing the spread, and even eradicating COVID all together in some places while our American arrogance and ignorance has only pushed the spread up and up to the point we are setting records almost daily for new cases and new deaths.  

 

So while that is encouraging to see this data, I don't think its really that applicable to the mess that is COVID in the US ad what our sports league really face thanks to 40% of our country who still think this global issue is about Trump's re-election bid instead of a global pandemic we all need to take serious and unite in our efforts to do what is necessary to slow it down.  

 

Its just one more major "I told you so" that 40% of this country that will continue to ignore and make political excuses for this despite the fact the virus doesn't care about politics or who you vote for.  

 

We honestly need to update the Pledge of Allegiance in this country from "One nation, indivisible" into "Two nations, divided by party" because that is all we are anymore.  

 

People don't know common sense and that is why this virus won't stop spreading.

 

Wear masks in public when you know you will be around people.

 

Wash your hands and face at every opportunity.

 

Never scratch anywhere around your face when you haven't washed your hands yet.

 

These are three SIMPLE common sense protocols that people simply don't follow.

 

It's not a political thing to use common sense.

 

This is why the virus is remaining strong. People are stupid. Again, this is not a political thing, it's a common sense thing and that is why baseball is hanging on by a thread.

 

I don't have confidence that NFL players will follow protocol either and that puts the NFL season in the balance as well.

Edited August 1, 2020 by njbuff

[JerseyBills]

43 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think this is more evidence of how other Nations have been substantially better at controlling COVID than the US.  Those other countries did not have its leadership, and the media that supports that leadership push misinformation, downplay the need for a mask, or even openly mock those wearing masks for the past 3 months.  The result has been those other countries having substantially better results on slowing the spread, and even eradicating COVID all together in some places while our American arrogance and ignorance has only pushed the spread up and up to the point we are setting records almost daily for new cases and new deaths.  

 

So while that is encouraging to see this data, I don't think its really that applicable to the mess that is COVID in the US ad what our sports league really face thanks to 40% of our country who still think this global issue is about Trump's re-election bid instead of a global pandemic we all need to take serious and unite in our efforts to do what is necessary to slow it down.  

 

Its just one more major "I told you so" that 40% of this country that will continue to ignore and make political excuses for this despite the fact the virus doesn't care about politics or who you vote for.  

 

We honestly need to update the Pledge of Allegiance in this country from "One nation, indivisible" into "Two nations, divided by party" because that is all we are anymore.  

I disagree. USA is different because you can't push a 1 size fits all mandate like other countries. With 48 different states , it's up to the state leadership to mandate rules and some make you wonder how they got that position with their stupidity. 

[Big Turk]

4 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Rates were so low during quarantine, you couldn’t keep things closed forever when every week hundreds of local healthcare workers were laid off because there was no work for them. We need to let this thing purge through, its the only way to get things back to normal

 

That's the problem right there. People believing that we will go back to normal. Sorry to burst your bubble, we will NEVER go back to the way things were. The more people fight and refuse to accept this the longer it will take to establish a new normal.

 

Normal is gone. Done. Over. Never coming back. Accept life has fundamentally changed forever and that we need to work towards figuring out how to live with it...large events in indoor places might never be safe again. Bars, restaurants, clubs, movie theatres, gyms, churches...might have to rethink how to operate if they are even capable of operating at all unless outdoors.

Edited August 1, 2020 by matter2003

[Alphadawg7]

20 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

People don't know common sense and that is why this virus won't stop spreading.

 

Wear masks in public when you know you will be around people.

 

Wash your hands and face at every opportunity.

 

Never scratch anywhere around your face when you haven't washed your hands yet.

 

These are three SIMPLE common sense protocols that people simply don't follow.

 

It's not a political thing to use common sense.

 

This is why the virus is remaining strong. People are stupid. Again, this is not a political thing, it's a common sense thing and that is why baseball is hanging on by a thread.

 

I don't have confidence that NFL players will follow protocol either and that puts the NFL season in the balance as well.

 

I agree with you, with the exception that its is tied to political division in this country.  The vast majority of the refusal to to comply with these common sense protocols comes from the misinformation put it out by Trump and the media that echoes his words.  

 

For months he has refused to push the use of masks, and even openly mocked those as weak who wear them.  He has constantly tweeted and retweeted things that contradict the need for a mask, the seriousness of the virus, etc etc.  All because he has seen the virus as a threat to his re-election since day 1 and instead chose to focus on downplaying it rather than rallying the nation to do what is necessary to slow it down and get past this.

 

So now we have a large amount of people who trust him who have been led to believe its not necessary and an infringement of their rights.  Despite the fact that actual medical experts like Dr. Fauci have insisted we need to do it and other nations have done it with a high degree of success.   

 

Its just sad to see us at a point where we cant even rally for each other and instead are rooted in a political system where both sides just want to defeat the other side and will always take the exact opposite position of the other side for that reason.  Even in a situation like a global pandemic that should have never been about politics, and should have been a rallying cry for us all band together as a nation and a world to defeat it.  

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

That's the problem right there. People believing that we will go back to normal. Sorry to burst your bubble, we will NEVER go back to the way things were. The more people fight and refuse to accept this the longer it will take to establish a new normal.

 

Normal is gone. Done. Over. Never coming back. Accept life has fundamentally changed forever and that we need to work towards figuring out how to live with it...large events in indoor places might never be safe again. Bars, restaurants, clubs, movie theatres, gyms, churches...might have to rethink how to operate if they are even capable of operating at all.

I'm pretty confident they'll have a vaccine readily available early next year and we'll slowly return to normal.  As far as sports are concerned I think forcing players into a bubble is the only way to get some semblance of a season in.  Four MLB games cancelled today and MLB pry has half the players/staff than the NFL does.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I disagree. USA is different because you can't push a 1 size fits all mandate like other countries. With 48 different states , it's up to the state leadership to mandate rules and some make you wonder how they got that position with their stupidity. 

 

Thats a fair point, but it also starts and stops at the top in terms of pushing a unified message and uniting us in our efforts against it.  And Trump has done nothing of the sort, and just pushed further divide and blame to desperately try and absolve himself of any responsibility in what has happened.  

 

And sadly, that example was followed by state leaders who push his agenda too and we had 48 states all doing their own thing like you said.

[PromoTheRobot]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thats a fair point, but it also starts and stops at the top in terms of pushing a unified message and uniting us in our efforts against it.  And Trump has done nothing of the sort, and just pushed further divide and blame to desperately try and absolve himself of any responsibility in what has happened.  

 

And sadly, that example was followed by state leaders who push his agenda too and we had 48 states all doing their own thing like you said.

 

Since viruses don't recognize state borders, you need a national response to a pandemic, period. There are no states rights in a pandemic.

 

There was a story just published that Jared Kushner had a national plan he and a group of advisors were ready to launch in spring.

 

But at the time it was only "blue states" that were being hit hard. It was decided to kick the job to the states to embarrass those governors.  Sadly, the idea that blue states would get it under control, while red states would eventually be hit and struggle with it, never occurred to them then.

Edited August 1, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm pretty confident they'll have a vaccine readily available early next year and we'll slowly return to normal.  As far as sports are concerned I think forcing players into a bubble is the only way to get some semblance of a season in.  Four MLB games cancelled today and MLB pry has half the players/staff than the NFL does.

 

We have no idea how effective the vaccine will be. It might only be partially effective. We hope that it will be a grand slam but it might be more like a single or a double.

 

But even with a vaccine we are talking about multiple boosters a year and they are talking about only making 100 million doses a year. 

 

But that doesn't mean you can go back to normal because if you let your booster expire a week too long now you have no protection against it.

 

If we need 4 shots a year to maintain immunity, that's over 1 billion doses just for the US alone. Where is that coming from when they only have 100 million dose capacity right now?

 

Masks and social distancing is still going to be the protocol.

 

I 100% agree that the bubble is the only way to do it and the NFL is going to end up having to. shut down fairly quickly to reevaluate I bet once the season starts.

Edited August 1, 2020 by matter2003

[TBBills]

So it turns out the Marlins players are just Pieces of *****.

[Alphadawg7]

29 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Since viruses don't recognize state borders, you need a national response to a pandemic, period. There are no states rights in a pandemic.

 

There was a story just published that Jared Kushner had a national plan he and a group of advisors were ready to launch in spring.

 

But at the time it was only "blue states" that were being hit hard. It was decided to kick the job to the states to embarrass those governors.  Sadly, the idea that blue states would get it under control, while red states would eventually be hit and struggle with it, never occurred to them then.

 

Yeah, I just read that too and its a disturbing part of our reality that our current administration made this political in an election year rather than rallying the nation.  The dumb part is, Trump could have emerged out of this in a very strong position to win re-election had he stepped to the plate and put his divisive tactics aside and worked to bring a unified message to the nation and stood strong to slow its impact here.  

 

But that is the nature of our country right now.  Constant tactics by both sides to weaken the stance of the other or undermine the other side at all times.  Neither side ever wants the other side to look like it was right about anything or succeeded at anything.  So they each just choose the opposite and do what ever they can to make their opponent look wrong, even when they themselves are wrong.  

 

And while thats always been a part of politics due to human nature, its never been as egregious here as it is right now in our country.  Like I said in my original post, we should change the pledge of allegiance to be more representative to what we are today.  Which is no longer "One nation indivisible" and really "Two nations, divided by party".  And that is the real virus in America, a broken 2 party system that fails to govern for the people, but just governs for power.  And both sides are at fault.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thats a fair point, but it also starts and stops at the top in terms of pushing a unified message and uniting us in our efforts against it.  And Trump has done nothing of the sort, and just pushed further divide and blame to desperately try and absolve himself of any responsibility in what has happened.  

 

And sadly, that example was followed by state leaders who push his agenda too and we had 48 states all doing their own thing like you said.

It also comes down to us , the residents.  I'm in North Jersey , a very densely populated area and we got rocked in March/April but now you see stores and ppl really stepping up with everybody wearing a mask in public. Stores have markets indicating 6 feet distance and the numbers have went down drastically 

[Alphadawg7]

34 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

It also comes down to us , the residents.  I'm in North Jersey , a very densely populated area and we got rocked in March/April but now you see stores and ppl really stepping up with everybody wearing a mask in public. Stores have markets indicating 6 feet distance and the numbers have went down drastically 

 

I do agree fully with that, the problem we have that the "residents" of the US are getting constant conflicting messaging between the medical experts and our national leadership.  

 

But yes, thats awesome to hear bud, and wish this was true in all parts of the country.  

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

It also comes down to us , the residents.  I'm in North Jersey , a very densely populated area and we got rocked in March/April but now you see stores and ppl really stepping up with everybody wearing a mask in public. Stores have markets indicating 6 feet distance and the numbers have went down drastically 

 

Same in the WNY area although we never really got hit hard in part because people were scared shitless by what was going on in NYC and followed every mandate from the governor.

 

Not wearing a mask here when indoors in public gets you publicly shamed at best and potentially in multiple fist fights at worst. If you are even allowed in the store to begin with.