14 Positives on Marlins

[TBBills]

On 7/27/2020 at 9:25 AM, plenzmd1 said:

Urghh...some symptomatic

 

 

I can bet you one of these guys was with a prostitute.

38 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

This is interesting to me, how can the league just "pause" a teams season.  Do that mean every game scheduled will be moved, or every game they cannot play they forfeit? 

Well the Marlins are a garbage of a baseball team so they either lose those games for forfeit... It doesn't matter.

[The Frankish Reich]

8 minutes ago, TBBills said:

I can bet you one of these guys was with a prostitute.

Well the Marlins are a garbage of a baseball team so they either lose those games for forfeit... It doesn't matter.

"forfeit" vs. "game not played" may make a huge difference in the standings, particularly with the expanded playoffs.

Prediction: the MLB season will not end well. 

[aristocrat]

13 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

It's much different but whatever. You've got your mind made up it seems.

 

i have my mind made up about what?  cause my post was literally about it not being proven and i said that over and over and over.  but i guess you have your mind made up

[HeHateMe]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He needs no help with that.  He just needs to open his mouth and speak.  Everything he does is only about how it makes him "look".  He's boasting about acing a basic test of cognitive impairment.  That's like crowing about a Glasgow Coma Scale score of 15.

 

He's a moron.  He thinks testing itself causes COVID positive cases.  He called testing "overrated" and said "it makes us look bad".. He still says this COVID virus "will go away".

 

He doesn't care about you, so let him go.  He's too stupid for your support, so why give it to him?

 

But he cares about the little guy!  Like he always has his whole life!  

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The larger problem is that there's things we think we know to be true, but they aren't backed up by the kind of studies we'd like to see. This is just too new. But there's a growing consensus around certain best practices. Outdoors is far better than indoors. Creating a "bubble" is very effective. Travel is dangerous. How do these fit within our major sports leagues?

1. Best: NBA, Women's Soccer. The "bubble" model. Travel exponentially increases the likelihood of exposure/infection. It is not perfect, but so far it appears to present an acceptable level of risk for participants, and a reasonably good likelihood that a revised "season" may be both started AND finished. Let's say 80%.

2. Better: NHL. Not exactly a bubble, but travel is restricted -- the only team travel that will happen is when we hit the Stanley Cup finals. There's good reason to believe that the indoor climate of hockey -- cool temps, on ice -- is conducive to spread (see the meat packing plant outbreaks). So that's another worry. It will be an interesting experiment, but I think it's more likely than not that the tournament can be started AND finished. Let's say 65%.

3. Not so good: MLB. We already have a very significant outbreak, so far confined to one team. But ... way too much travel, and traveling parties are large (30 man rosters now, plus all kinds of affiliated coaches and personnel). Teams typically traveling 2-3 times/week. The good thing is that baseball is about as solitary a game itself as any team sport -- really only the hitter/catcher/homeplate ump (and for extended times only the latter two) are in close contact for any extended time on the field. And most of this is outdoors (even empty domed stadiums don't seem likely to present the risks we see even in air conditioned office buildings). But I'm skeptical they'll get anything resembling their plan completed. I am assuming, at a minimum, another shutdown/restart. Chances of finishing the season (with such a restart)? Let's say 50%.

4. NFL. Terrible. Part of it is just the nature of the game. Players in extremely close proximity while the game is in progress. There may be face shields, etc., but whether they're effective remains to be seen. Huge teams/traveling parties. Weekly travel. No bubble or quasi-bubble. (Q. Why not? At least at the start of the year?). Chances that the season starts, that we get in substantially the full schedule (even assuming a 2 or 3 week shutdown) AND finish the playoffs/Super Bowl? I'd say unlikely. Let's call it 35%.

 

The NHL in my opinion has the best setup not necessarily because their protocols are better than the NBA but rather because they set their bubble up in Canada where they have the virus under much better control AND the players have a good testing and restrictions on their personal travel. The NBA has the best protocol but they have their bubble in the literal epicenter of the pandemic at this point in Orlando/Florida. I think that the protocols are effective but when it is surrounded by a pandemic epicenter it just makes the margin for error so much smaller. 

 

I think the NFL is going to have to delay the season till October to put together a bubble plan. Because the MLB is proving a non-bubble format isn't working. 

[Figster]

21 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The NHL in my opinion has the best setup not necessarily because their protocols are better than the NBA but rather because they set their bubble up in Canada where they have the virus under much better control AND the players have a good testing and restrictions on their personal travel. The NBA has the best protocol but they have their bubble in the literal epicenter of the pandemic at this point in Orlando/Florida. I think that the protocols are effective but when it is surrounded by a pandemic epicenter it just makes the margin for error so much smaller. 

 

I think the NFL is going to have to delay the season till October to put together a bubble plan. Because the MLB is proving a non-bubble format isn't working. 

Tnis is a great point IMO.

 

Since the stadiums will probably be empty anyways having all NFL matchups/players at neutral sites placed in the safest Citys of our country makes sense IMO. Or even out of the country like Canada.

 

Well hello again Toronto/ Rogers Center...

Edited July 28, 2020 by Figster

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

Tnis is a great point IMO.

 

Since the stadiums will probably be empty anyways having all NFL matchups/players at neutral sites placed in the safest Citys of our country makes sense IMO. Or even out of the country like Canada.

 

Well hello again Toronto/ Rogers Center...

 

An AFC East and North "bubble" in Toronto would make a lot of sense to me. 8 teams equals 4 games at a time, I think they can find 2 sights in Toronto to make it work. That way you can play 10 games (6 in your division 4 against another division) without traveling outside of a bubble. 

[Saint Doug]

4 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

The key word here is safe return and "the medical community" is not advocating for all schools just to open and have kids there 5 days a week in all circumstances.  Here's a quote from that link and this is where the problem comes in.

 

"Local school leaders, public health experts, educators and parents must be at the center of decisions about how and when to reopen schools, taking into account the spread of COVID-19 in their communities and the capacities of school districts to adapt safety protocols to make in-person learning safe and feasible. For instance, schools in areas with high levels of COVID-19 community spread should not be compelled to reopen against the judgment of local experts.  A one-size-fits-all approach is not appropriate for return to school decisions.

 

Reopening schools in a way that maximizes safety, learning, and the well-being of children, teachers, and staff will clearly require substantial new investments in our schools and campuses."

 

I'm not saying schools shouldn't re-open or that there aren't substantial benefits to kids in having the buildings open.  Clearly there are.  What I'm saying is that the guidance that exists does not work in so many circumstances that it is virtually useless.  There has been no substantial investment in the campuses. There is no way to distance people safely in the structures that many districts have. There are 930 students in the building I work in.  My class sizes range from 30-38.  The kids sit on top of one another.  There is no place to spread them out. There are no unused classrooms in our building there is no money to procure trailers to add additional classrooms and definitely no money to add staff to teach in those classrooms.  So we then start talking about staggering schedules.  OK, well if a kid is in school twice a week and home the other three, or whatever break out you want, you haven't solved the core reason why so many people want the buildings open, so the parents can go back to work.  So what you will have still is a situation where parents either need to be home for kids who are too young to watch themselves, leave the kids home alone, or try to find some sort of day care option that A. has space, B. they can afford, and C. will accept a kid for a select number of days per week.  

 

Here's another example of how the guidance doesn't work.  The most recent thing I've heard is to have kids in self-contained pods with one teacher.  Well, that works for elementary school just fine.  That doesn't work in high school.  The teacher who teaches 11th grade English isn't qualified to teach calculus.  They aren't certified to do so, they don't have the expertise to do so, and it's not something you can quickly pick up in 3 weeks to be able to do.  So either the kids or the teachers need to move.  Again working on this pod idea. It is virtually impossible to create a pod of kids at the high school level who are all in the same level of classes across the board.  So again, you are either moving the kids around so they can get what they need or you are moving the teachers around.  There isn't a way to do that sort of thing at that level.  My school is a middle school so it's a bit of all of these issues.  The 6th graders are too young to manage themselves at home, everyone moves to different classes and has different levels, you have many teachers who aren't cross trained to teach everything (I am certified to teach every subject and Spec Ed. I'm the only one in my building like that). So how do you do this in a way that achieves people's goals and yet is still safeish.

 

There are simple problems that I still haven't heard an answer to such as transportation.  How do you socially distance on a bus?  In order to follow guidelines kids would have to be no more than one to a seat.  That cuts your capacity in at least half and younger kids often sit 3 to a seat.  There isn't a pool of empty buses (or people to drive them) just sitting around.  Staggering schedules might address some of that but then you get into the other issues I mentioned as well as a host more.  I work with our transportation company pretty closely coordinating sports buses and I can tell you that they don't have enough drivers in a regular year and a lot of the drivers they have are older people.  That is going to be a disaster. 

 

Substitute teachers are similar.  Lots are retired teachers.  You can't compel them to take assignments, they are able to pick and choose where, when, and if they want to work.  I'm expecting MANY of them not to be working this year.  So when you have a teacher get sick there isn't going to be a replacement.  Again, we have trouble getting subs in a regular year.  If we have more than 5 people out in a day normally the additional spots don't get filled.  On a Monday or a Friday in the winter it's more like 3 and we can have 10-15 people out sometimes in a regular year. When that happens, and the spots don't get picked up, administrators teach class and/or we consolidate classes into the gym or the auditorium and do what we need to do to get through the day.  Well, if you are distancing you can't consolidate classes like that so what do you do?  We only have 3 administrators.

 

 

I completely understand and mostly agree. If it happens, it must be done very safely. As we have seen throughout this whole pandemic, most people would agree one-size fits all approach makes little sense. The logistics are daunting, as you point out. But, you implied in your post that the medical community wasn’t advocating for school reopening. This was not an accurate statement. An organization that guides the practice of the 90,000 pediatricians in this country is.

 

I’m sure I’m preaching to the choir here, but schools remaining closed is causing irreparable damage to certain student populations. Kids with special needs and learning disabilities, where early intervention is required, are taking a huge hit. The other population that will suffer greatly are kids that are experiencing some sort of abuse at home (whether its verbal, physical, or neglect). Schools provide a safety net for this student population. The last population are those with mental illness needs. This is self-explanatory. 

[The Frankish Reich]

21 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The NHL in my opinion has the best setup not necessarily because their protocols are better than the NBA but rather because they set their bubble up in Canada where they have the virus under much better control AND the players have a good testing and restrictions on their personal travel. The NBA has the best protocol but they have their bubble in the literal epicenter of the pandemic at this point in Orlando/Florida. I think that the protocols are effective but when it is surrounded by a pandemic epicenter it just makes the margin for error so much smaller. 

 

I think the NFL is going to have to delay the season till October to put together a bubble plan. Because the MLB is proving a non-bubble format isn't working. 

Excellent point. I had neglected that. Where the bubble (or bubbles) is located is critical too. I may revise my predictions accordingly:

- NHL: 80% chance of actually playing a "full" tournament.

- NBA: 65% chance

- MLB: 50% chance (with at least one league-wide stoppage)

- NFL: 25% chance (unless they come up with a better plan, like 4 regional bubbles)

[billsfan89]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

Excellent point. I had neglected that. Where the bubble (or bubbles) is located is critical too. I may revise my predictions accordingly:

- NHL: 80% chance of actually playing a "full" tournament.

- NBA: 65% chance

- MLB: 50% chance (with at least one league-wide stoppage)

- NFL: 25% chance (unless they come up with a better plan, like 4 regional bubbles)

 

I think the NBA and NHL have a high chance of finishing their seasons. The NBA has good protocols in place and the staffs and team sizes are smaller But the MLB is dicey and the NFL needs a plan. 

[Meatloaf63]

19 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Gonna need sources for all of that nonsense.

Florida has 20k more confirmed cases than NY. Should we give them a gold star for watching someone fail, and then do everything worse, learning nothing, and fail harder? Just because they lucked out with less deaths per 100 cases should not be any sort of vindication.They were spectacularly wrong about everything.

Not going to do all the research for you but as of today Ny has 32,645 deaths Florida 6117. The goal was to flatten the curve if you remember. Florida’s budget is balanced, How far in debt is NY? Anyone can stop the spread almost completely by destroying itself, the key is to be able to live some sort of a life, have some type of economic activity. Florida’s problems came from a number of reasons. A good deal of it was improper behavior and not following the rules put in place in bars. They were packed and nobody gave a crap. So they were shut back down. Kids still are breaking rules between Miami Dade and Palm Beach county having large outdoor parties and not distancing so much they are talking about a curfew there. Maybe NYC got scared into behaving better with how bad it was in the beginning, but as Sweden has found out, the more that get infected, the spread slows down. Maybe it’s a combo of both having higher number of resistance and better behavior from fear.   

[DrDawkinstein]

57 minutes ago, Figster said:

Tnis is a great point IMO.

 

Since the stadiums will probably be empty anyways having all NFL matchups/players at neutral sites placed in the safest Citys of our country makes sense IMO. Or even out of the country like Canada.

 

Well hello again Toronto/ Rogers Center...

 

Americans arent allowed into Canada right now (or much else of the world) so Toronto is out.

 

Canada wouldnt even let the Blue Jays in, they arent going to let in an entire league.

[Billl]

7 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Florida’s budget is balanced, How far in debt is NY?

That’s a ridiculous way to look at economic health.  Having a balanced budget when interest rates are zero is about as fiscally irresponsible as it gets.  New York is the single largest net contributor in terms of revenue paid into the federal treasury versus what they receive, and their per capita income dwarfs Florida’s.  Meanwhile, Florida is one of the largest hogs slurping up federal money.

 

https://rockinst.org/blog/who-are-the-givers-the-northeast-subsidizes-federal-spending/

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/opinion/cc-op-zirpoli-050620-20200506-7ya7okjfk5btdpysnrnrfouyz4-story.html

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-05-15/some-states-like-new-york-send-billions-more-to-federal-government-than-they-get-back
 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/median-household-income-by-state

 

[Saxum]

12 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Not surprising.  I cannot see how pro sports can be played fairly right now.  Teams that lose players from infection will be at significant competitive disadvantage.

 

And the teams which follow good practice, get their players to follow them off the field and not have players opt out will be at significant competitive advantage.  

There will some with pre-CTE symptoms and think this is just "fake news"'.

Teams need to recognize it (most have big mouths) and let players know if they are going to take chances then the team will fight for their right for player to be put on non Football injury list.

[Saxum]

6 hours ago, aristocrat said:

we landed on the moon

 

There is some "thoughts" that was fake like virus.

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

 

my 2 cents.  If you can't control your Professional players.   You forfeit games. 

 

even controlled players can get sick 

[Reks Ryan]

On 7/27/2020 at 6:56 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

What untruth?  

 

That he called the iris a "hoax"?  So what?  That bit certainly did not and has not "stoked fear"----it's the everything he has said and done SINCE that utterance that has stoked fear that he doesn't really care about the pandemic, wishes it would just go away so he can rally in front of those adoring voters who could not find China on a globe..AND that the only motivation he has left until the election is NOT becoming his party's Jimmy Carter.

 

That he's a xenophobe?  Of course he is--and proudly so.  Racist too.  In fact, he scored a daily double when he suggested that 4 (female, of course) Members of Congress to "go back to" "the crime infested places from which they came".

 

What "stokes fear" is not "the media" broadcasting this man's uninhibited flight of ideas; it's knowing your President is a dangerous combination of unlimited ego, extremely limited intelligence and, now, frank desperation.

 

That "hoax" comment was a Freudian slip--it scared no one.  I have absolutely no doubt, based on all of his other contemporaneous statements, the he came to believe a large part of the pandemic was a hoax brewed up by his political enemies and a pliant press.  He believes that to this day.  

 

 

I thought you said this conversation was an exercise in futility?  Couldn’t resist the temptation, huh.  It’s understandable 

[Meatloaf63]

On 7/27/2020 at 9:22 PM, BullBuchanan said:

Gonna need sources for all of that nonsense.

Florida has 20k more confirmed cases than NY. Should we give them a gold star for watching someone fail, and then do everything worse, learning nothing, and fail harder? Just because they lucked out with less deaths per 100 cases should not be any sort of vindication.They were spectacularly wrong about everything.

During a Buck Institute Webinar streamed on July 14, Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield promoted the general reopening of schools, highlighting the low coronavirus risk for children without preexisting conditions and the unfortunate spike in suicides and drug overdoses, which Redfield said are “far greater” in number than COVID-linked deaths in the young.
 

Hows this Bull?

[C.Biscuit97]

The other thing with this is no one knows the long term effects either.  Everyone is like you get it and you’re fine but there have been some long term effects tied to lung issues.  It reminds me how safe they say MMA is but it’s because they don’t have long term effects yet to go by.  I met Chuck Liddell several times, CTE is going to be a big issue for that sport. 

[BullBuchanan]

4 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

During a Buck Institute Webinar streamed on July 14, Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield promoted the general reopening of schools, highlighting the low coronavirus risk for children without preexisting conditions and the unfortunate spike in suicides and drug overdoses, which Redfield said are “far greater” in number than COVID-linked deaths in the young.
 

Hows this Bull?

It's meaningless. I want numbers. Suicides are significantly lower than COVID deaths, and what constitutes a spike? "Far greater" doesn't cut it.