C.Biscuit97 Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Don Otreply said: I hear ya, makes me think of this example, Dak putting up big yards and not making the playoffs this past year. Dak is a good QB as we all know, all those yards in the end though didn’t get the job done, Its about team success first and foremost imo, personal stats don’t mean as much if your team doesn’t make the post season, which after all is the measuring stick, jmo. Here’s to Josh’s continued growth. ? Go Bills!!! He’s 40-24 as a starter. 1
Don Otreply Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He’s 40-24 as a starter. Not my point, you see, all the yards accumulated “last season” didn’t matter, they didn’t make the post season, which is incumbent on team success not individual stats. Yards alone don’t tell the story, being the Bills made the post season and the boys didn’t as an example. If you don’t make the post season you didn’t have a successful season, being that is the measurement of a good season in the NFL, or was that DJ 9-7 season considered successful? Edited July 28, 2020 by Don Otreply
MJS Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He’s 40-24 as a starter. And this is what I don't get. If people mention wins for certain QB's (like Allen) people scream "Wins are a team stat!" but then you can mention it for others, like Dak? I think wins are a great metric to use for QB's given the impact they have on the game, personally. It just has to be taken in context. 1
4merper4mer Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, NewEra said: Tre at 47 is a joke while Gilmore will be top 10 Next year's list will make this year's look silly when Edmunds goes from nowhere to comfortably in the top 25. Edited July 28, 2020 by 4merper4mer 1
GunnerBill Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 51 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Not my point, you see, all the yards accumulated “last season” didn’t matter, they didn’t make the post season, which is incumbent on team success not individual stats. Yards alone don’t tell the story, being the Bills made the post season and the boys didn’t as an example. If you don’t make the post season you didn’t have a successful season, being that is the measurement of a good season in the NFL, or were those DJ 9-7 seasons considered successful? Which DJ are you on about? Cos Jauron never went 9-7... he went 7-9. And 7-9. And 7-9... and 7 and well.... you get the picture. 1 1
GoBills808 Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 50 minutes ago, MJS said: And this is what I don't get. If people mention wins for certain QB's (like Allen) people scream "Wins are a team stat!" but then you can mention it for others, like Dak? I think wins are a great metric to use for QB's given the impact they have on the game, personally. It just has to be taken in context. Wins are always a team stat
MJS Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Wins are always a team stat And they are also a QB stat. It's the one position in sports that truly moves the needle on wins and losses. Feel free to disagree, though.
GoBills808 Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, MJS said: And they are also a QB stat. It's the one position in sports that truly moves the needle on wins and losses. Feel free to disagree, though. So was Tom Brady a better QB last season than Russel Wilson?
Billl Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, MJS said: And this is what I don't get. If people mention wins for certain QB's (like Allen) people scream "Wins are a team stat!" but then you can mention it for others, like Dak? I think wins are a great metric to use for QB's given the impact they have on the game, personally. It just has to be taken in context. You don’t get the difference between a QB who has a great record and great stats, a QB who has great stats but a mediocre record, and a QB with mediocre stats and a winning record? 1
GoBills808 Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 8 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think he is too high.... but I would still have him in the latter quarter of my top 100. He didn't play as well in 2019 as 2017 and 2018 but he still made game changing plays in multiple games. The thing with the top 100 though is it is never just about the previous season. When you ask players they are always going to factor their whole history in. I suspect Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers will be higher than their actual 2019 performances for example. I still think it is way too low for Trey. I think he is a top 30 player in the league and his consistency across three years has been extraordinary. Rodgers had a very good 2019 even with Adams missing 4 games and playing injured basically the entire season.
GunnerBill Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Rodgers had a very good 2019 even with Adams missing 4 games and playing injured basically the entire season. I don't agree. I think he was good. I don't think he was anywhere near what he has been.
GoBills808 Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: I don't agree. I think he was good. I don't think he was anywhere near what he has been. I didn't say he was as good as he's ever been, I said he was 'very good'. Which he was.
GunnerBill Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I didn't say he was as good as he's ever been, I said he was 'very good'. Which he was. In which case I don't think we disagree by much. I do think there was noticeable decline and the point is I suspect he will be higher on this list than his pure 2019 form deserves.
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 3 hours ago, MJS said: And this is what I don't get. If people mention wins for certain QB's (like Allen) people scream "Wins are a team stat!" but then you can mention it for others, like Dak? I think wins are a great metric to use for QB's given the impact they have on the game, personally. It just has to be taken in context. Actually great point. Wins are stupid for qbs. Especially when Dak got 8 and led an offense that averaged 27 points/ game while Allen got 10 with an offense that averaged 19. and for the record, if Allen had Dak’s passing numbers, you were hear zero criticism from me. That’s why it’s idiotic that some prop Allen up while putting guys like Dak and Lamar down. It is insane. 2 hours ago, MJS said: And they are also a QB stat. It's the one position in sports that truly moves the needle on wins and losses. Feel free to disagree, though. Pat Mahomes “lost” a game where he led the offense to 51 points. Allen “won” a game where we scored 14. It’s a pretty dumb stat.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: Next year's list will make this year's look silly when Edmunds goes from nowhere to comfortably in the top 25. Hope so. If he doesn't make a big jump this year they will have a big decision to make on his future.
MJS Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Actually great point. Wins are stupid for qbs. Especially when Dak got 8 and led an offense that averaged 27 points/ game while Allen got 10 with an offense that averaged 19. and for the record, if Allen had Dak’s passing numbers, you were hear zero criticism from me. That’s why it’s idiotic that some prop Allen up while putting guys like Dak and Lamar down. It is insane. Pat Mahomes “lost” a game where he led the offense to 51 points. Allen “won” a game where we scored 14. It’s a pretty dumb stat. Dumb stat which you just used for Dak.
Ralonzo Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 5 hours ago, MJS said: And they are also a QB stat. It's the one position in sports that truly moves the needle on wins and losses. Feel free to disagree, though.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 28, 2020 Posted July 28, 2020 and now we hate cowherd again. ? That didn’t take long 2
Stank_Nasty Posted July 29, 2020 Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) On 7/27/2020 at 4:33 PM, Billl said: Wonder how many QBs will be on the list. Got to think 20 or so. You were off by ten. So you were about as wrong as you usually are with regards Allen. Edited July 29, 2020 by Stank_Nasty
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