MJS Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: Why do you care? Are you a Bills fan or a Ravens fan? Do you have some interest in seeing Jackson succeed and Allen fail? And do you realize that Jackson was a 57% passer in college? Last year in the NFL he was 66%. Just ignore him. 90% of his posts are bashing Allen. We all know how he feels but he keeps posting it over and over and over. It goes like this: "You said something good about Allen?! What a moron!" "You said something bad about another QB in the NFL!? Allen is worse than all QB's that ever played the game!" 1 1
AirAllenPower Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Doc said: Why do you care? Are you a Bills fan or a Ravens fan? Do you have some interest in seeing Jackson succeed and Allen fail? And do you realize that Jackson was a 57% passer in college? Last year in the NFL he was 66%. He doesn't want to admit Allen runs a passing offense, much of which is based of McDaniels system and Lanar runs a option style offense based off his running talent ( which is smart, Lamar is great in that system) but it reveals the truth about who's learning to play big boy qb , and who's hiding certain limitations passing
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 Just now, Doc said: Why do you care? Are you a Bills fan or a Ravens fan? Do you have some interest in seeing Jackson succeed and Allen fail? And do you realize that Jackson was a 57% passer in college? Last year in the NFL he was 66%. Because stupidity should be called out. Just because fans are bills homers doesn’t mean we should just allow them to post dishonest things. Jackson also had a 69 td pass to 27 int rate in a much, much tougher conference with not a ton of nfl talent surrounding him (Allen was 44 td to 21 int). Yet this board tries to tear Jackson down while propping Allen up. If Allen had Jackson’s resume, I would fight posters if they tried to nitpick his numbers. It’s completely disingenuous. 1 1
AirAllenPower Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Awful, embarrassing take. What is Allen if Jackson is a better version of Tommy Frazier or Frost? Tanner Lee? Haha. Heisman trophy winner and MVP Jackson equals Tommy Frazier or Frost. 56% passing Josh Allen is John Elway, who’s floor is McNair, a former MVP. While I love cross racial comparisons, this is an insane take. Comp % doesn't equal accuracy. Couple that with Allen had the least checkdowns in the NFL and it paints a picture of yes a young Elway 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Because stupidity should be called out. Just because fans are bills homers doesn’t mean we should just allow them to post dishonest things. Jackson also had a 69 td pass to 27 int rate in a much, much tougher conference with not a ton of nfl talent surrounding him (Allen was 44 td to 21 int). Yet this board tries to tear Jackson down while propping Allen up. If Allen had Jackson’s resume, I would fight posters if they tried to nitpick his numbers. It’s completely disingenuous. If Tommy Frazier had as many passing TDs as peyton manning, is it the same. 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Because stupidity should be called out. Just because fans are bills homers doesn’t mean we should just allow them to post dishonest things. Jackson also had a 69 td pass to 27 int rate in a much, much tougher conference with not a ton of nfl talent surrounding him (Allen was 44 td to 21 int). Yet this board tries to tear Jackson down while propping Allen up. If Allen had Jackson’s resume, I would fight posters if they tried to nitpick his numbers. It’s completely disingenuous. I'm not tearing down Jackson. He may be the greatest option qb we have ever seen. I'm pointing out its differences from Allen as a skill set I thought Lamar was the mvp last year Edited August 3, 2020 by AirAllenPower
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, AirAllenPower said: If it's so off why did he run the navy option ? Hes great in that offense. He ran for over 1200 yards , a vast majority of which was run designed. Josh Allen is actually already ahead of McNair if you look at their 2nd years. You’re right. 2 great points. 1 - I remember all those years of Navy qbs leading the nation in td passes, winning Heismans, and then winning a nfl MVP. Just a bunch of roger staubachs dominating the nfl. 2 - always super smart to compare qbs from nearly 20 years ago. Nothing in the nfl has changed and the rules are exactly the same. And considering McNair has 6 total starts his first 2 years, it is a very valid comparison. Very. 1
LeviF Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 Just now, AirAllenPower said: He doesn't want to admit Allen runs a passing offense, much of which is based of McDaniels system and Lanar runs a option style offense based off his running talent ( which is smart, Lamar is great in that system) but it reveals the truth about who's learning to play big boy qb , and who's hiding certain limitations passing I think the question is largely this: why do we assume Lamar has hit his ceiling on passing ability when we assume Josh hasn't hit his? Josh's first year was with JAGs at every skill position except for a declining superstar RB so I kind of get it. The Ravens are taking a different (from the Bills), but good strategy to hide Lamar's limitations with the personnel they have now. Meanwhile in the offseason Lamar can work on his passing game just like Josh does. Lamar might never have the sheer throw power that Josh has but most successful QBs don't. In any case, the answer to the question is "because we want Josh to be the guy." And that's ok but we need to be honest with ourselves about it. 1 2
AirAllenPower Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: You’re right. 2 great points. 1 - I remember all those years of Navy qbs leading the nation in td passes, winning Heismans, and then winning a nfl MVP. Just a bunch of roger staubachs dominating the nfl. 2 - always super smart to compare qbs from nearly 20 years ago. Nothing in the nfl has changed and the rules are exactly the same. And considering McNair has 6 total starts his first 2 years, it is a very valid comparison. Very. Tim Tebow ran a navy option concept with some spread. Tommy Frazier ran the navy option. Both QBs threw for many yards and TDs. Are those TDs the same as peyton manning? If McNair didn't play his 1st 2 years, except he did start a few games, what does that tell you about Allen progress... Outside of huge hits the only thing that's really changed much since the 85 bears and zone blitz is shorter routes, picks and option routes designed to get the ball out quick. Which is why comp % has gone up 3 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: I think the question is largely this: why do we assume Lamar has hit his ceiling on passing ability when we assume Josh hasn't hit his? Josh's first year was with JAGs at every skill position except for a declining superstar RB so I kind of get it. The Ravens are taking a different (from the Bills), but good strategy to hide Lamar's limitations with the personnel they have now. Meanwhile in the offseason Lamar can work on his passing game just like Josh does. Lamar might never have the sheer throw power that Josh has but most successful QBs don't. In any case, the answer to the question is "because we want Josh to be the guy." And that's ok but we need to be honest with ourselves about it. We make that assumption based on why they run the offense they run. John Elway was a great athlete, so is Russell Wilson and Watson along with Allen. Why don't they run the navy option?
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, AirAllenPower said: Comp % doesn't equal accuracy. Couple that with Allen had the least checkdowns in the NFL and it paints a picture of yes a young Elway If Tommy Frazier had as many passing TDs as peyton manning, is it the same. I'm not tearing down Jackson. He may be the greatest option qb we have ever seen. I'm pointing out its differences from Allen as a skill set I thought Lamar was the mvp last year You do realize Jackson averaged more passing yards than Allen right? He’s been a better passer on every level than Allen, right? Could Allen be one better? Sure but it’s patently false to say it at this time. and comparisons are kinda dumb. I used to compare Losman with Favre after 2 seasons. You can find comparisons good and bad for whatever you’re trying to prove. Why not compare Allen to Josh Freeman instead of a top 5 QBs of all time? I mean I hope you’re right that his floor is a MVP qb and his ceiling is a top 5 qb. But it’s wild to say that after a season where he was the 32nd ranked passer in completion %. 1
AirAllenPower Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: I think the question is largely this: why do we assume Lamar has hit his ceiling on passing ability when we assume Josh hasn't hit his? Josh's first year was with JAGs at every skill position except for a declining superstar RB so I kind of get it. The Ravens are taking a different (from the Bills), but good strategy to hide Lamar's limitations with the personnel they have now. Meanwhile in the offseason Lamar can work on his passing game just like Josh does. Lamar might never have the sheer throw power that Josh has but most successful QBs don't. In any case, the answer to the question is "because we want Josh to be the guy." And that's ok but we need to be honest with ourselves about it. I wanted lowman and Edwards to be the guy, same with ej. I admited they sucked when I saw them. I don't want Allen to be good. He is...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: I think the question is largely this: why do we assume Lamar has hit his ceiling on passing ability when we assume Josh hasn't hit his? Josh's first year was with JAGs at every skill position except for a declining superstar RB so I kind of get it. The Ravens are taking a different (from the Bills), but good strategy to hide Lamar's limitations with the personnel they have now. Meanwhile in the offseason Lamar can work on his passing game just like Josh does. Lamar might never have the sheer throw power that Josh has but most successful QBs don't. In any case, the answer to the question is "because we want Josh to be the guy." And that's ok but we need to be honest with ourselves about it. Thank you! That’s all I’m trying to say. I had Allen and Jackson ranked the same in their draft because I had questions about both as passers. I would love Them to both be good because football is better with good QBs. But this board loves pretending that only Allen can improve and Jackson will just get worse. Dude has gotten better every year.
AirAllenPower Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You do realize Jackson averaged more passing yards than Allen right? He’s been a better passer on every level than Allen, right? Could Allen be one better? Sure but it’s patently false to say it at this time. and comparisons are kinda dumb. I used to compare Losman with Favre after 2 seasons. You can find comparisons good and bad for whatever you’re trying to prove. Why not compare Allen to Josh Freeman instead of a top 5 QBs of all time? I mean I hope you’re right that his floor is a MVP qb and his ceiling is a top 5 qb. But it’s wild to say that after a season where he was the 32nd ranked passer in completion %. How many more passing yards in what offense? There's a reason newton's career is in jeopardy if his legs are gone...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 Just now, AirAllenPower said: I wanted lowman and Edwards to be the guy, same with ej. I admited they sucked when I saw them. I don't want Allen to be good. He is... You should watch other teams if you think Allen is good now. He has dominant flashes but he is not a good nfl qb yet. He is carried by a top 3 defense and just has to lose games right now. hopefully one day, he will be genuinely good. He has proven he can start in the league. But he’s not good now. Especially with throwing. 1 minute ago, AirAllenPower said: How many more passing yards in what offense? There's a reason newton's career is in jeopardy if his legs are gone... Jackson has been a better passer on every level in football than Allen. Against better competition too. And Cam Newton was off to the best throwing season of his career and a MVP candidate 2 years ago until he hurt his shoulder.
LeviF Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, AirAllenPower said: We make that assumption based on why they run the offense they run. John Elway was a great athlete, so is Russell Wilson and Watson along with Allen. Why don't they run the navy option? And making assumptions as to the motivations behind the decisions. Roman might not be running the option because Lamar sucks at throwing. He might be running it because they're trying to win and the option just gives them the best chance of winning right now with the personnel they have at skill positions. Lamar's making the throws they ask him to make - that's really all he can do. And then goes to work in the offseason. Despite Josh's current limitations the Bills run a more "standard" offense that relies more on QB passing ability. They might be doing that to try and try Josh by fire, if you will. If he's not the guy he'll stall out at best and crash and burn at worst. Then you turn around and draft another QB. Meanwhile Josh goes to work in the offseason trying to ascend. My point isn't that the Ravens aren't hiding some limitations, it's that assuming they don't believe in Lamar at all as a passer is kind of odd given what they've been able to do with the offense they're running. If you can get to 14-2 running the option nobody's going to ask questions or assume they should switch their playcalling around. 1 1
AirAllenPower Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You do realize Jackson averaged more passing yards than Allen right? He’s been a better passer on every level than Allen, right? Could Allen be one better? Sure but it’s patently false to say it at this time. and comparisons are kinda dumb. I used to compare Losman with Favre after 2 seasons. You can find comparisons good and bad for whatever you’re trying to prove. Why not compare Allen to Josh Freeman instead of a top 5 QBs of all time? I mean I hope you’re right that his floor is a MVP qb and his ceiling is a top 5 qb. But it’s wild to say that after a season where he was the 32nd ranked passer in completion %. Hes not a better passer on any level... not in accuracy, not in reading a defense, not in arm talent. What Lamar is great at is running the navy option which creates man coverage, but even then he can throw outside... it gets embarrassing if you shut him down running. When Lamar has to throw, it looks every bit as much as the polian scouting report. Where polian was blind is simply not running an offense around Lamar's strength 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You should watch other teams if you think Allen is good now. He has dominant flashes but he is not a good nfl qb yet. He is carried by a top 3 defense and just has to lose games right now. hopefully one day, he will be genuinely good. He has proven he can start in the league. But he’s not good now. Especially with throwing. Jackson has been a better passer on every level in football than Allen. Against better competition too. And Cam Newton was off to the best throwing season of his career and a MVP candidate 2 years ago until he hurt his shoulder. I watch every qb. Mahomes is the only young qb is swap for Allen
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, AirAllenPower said: Tim Tebow ran a navy option concept with some spread. Tommy Frazier ran the navy option. Both QBs threw for many yards and TDs. Are those TDs the same as peyton manning? If McNair didn't play his 1st 2 years, except he did start a few games, what does that tell you about Allen progress... Outside of huge hits the only thing that's really changed much since the 85 bears and zone blitz is shorter routes, picks and option routes designed to get the ball out quick. Which is why comp % has gone up We make that assumption based on why they run the offense they run. John Elway was a great athlete, so is Russell Wilson and Watson along with Allen. Why don't they run the navy option? This makes no sense. So it is better to suck in a “complex” offense than dominant in less “complex” one??? are you Rex Ryan??? Let’s design stupid complex blitzes that never get to Brady and have him throw for 400 yards. 1
AirAllenPower Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 1 minute ago, LeviF91 said: And making assumptions as to the motivations behind the decisions. Roman might not be running the option because Lamar sucks at throwing. He might be running it because they're trying to win and the option just gives them the best chance of winning right now with the personnel they have at skill positions. Lamar's making the throws they ask him to make - that's really all he can do. And then goes to work in the offseason. Despite Josh's current limitations the Bills run a more "standard" offense that relies more on QB passing ability. They might be doing that to try and try Josh by fire, if you will. If he's not the guy he'll stall out at best and crash and burn at worst. Then you turn around and draft another QB. Meanwhile Josh goes to work in the offseason trying to ascend. My point isn't that the Ravens aren't hiding some limitations, it's that assuming they don't believe in Lamar at all as a passer is kind of odd given what they've been able to do with the offense they're running. If you can get to 14-2 running the option nobody's going to ask questions or assume they should switch their playcalling around. Again if what you're saying true why don't Watson, Allen, and Wilson run the navy option? Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: This makes no sense. So it is better to suck in a “complex” offense than dominant in less “complex” one??? are you Rex Ryan??? Let’s design stupid complex blitzes that never get to Brady and have him throw for 400 yards. Are you saying Lamar would suck in Allen's offense?
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, AirAllenPower said: Hes not a better passer on any level... not in accuracy, not in reading a defense, not in arm talent. What Lamar is great at is running the navy option which creates man coverage, but even then he can throw outside... it gets embarrassing if you shut him down running. When Lamar has to throw, it looks every bit as much as the polian scouting report. Where polian was blind is simply not running an offense around Lamar's strength I watch every qb. Mahomes is the only young qb is swap for Allen You’re see what you want to see. Every fanbase besides ours think Lamar is a better qb than Allen at this point. but if Allen doesn’t become a franchise guy, I’ll feel much better it about it because he ran a complex offense.
LeviF Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 Just now, AirAllenPower said: Again if what you're saying true why don't Watson, Allen, and Wilson run the navy option? Because that doesn't give their teams the best chance of winning right now? Coaches want to keep their jobs and winning is the best way of doing that. Harbaugh and Roman are getting that done. Watson and Wilson have proved themselves as passers. I think it's fair to say Josh has a way to go before hitting their QB tier.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, AirAllenPower said: Again if what you're saying true why don't Watson, Allen, and Wilson run the navy option? Are you saying Lamar would suck in Allen's offense? Maybe we should run the navy option with Allen.
AirAllenPower Posted August 3, 2020 Posted August 3, 2020 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: You’re see what you want to see. Every fanbase besides ours think Lamar is a better qb than Allen at this point. but if Allen doesn’t become a franchise guy, I’ll feel much better it about it because he ran a complex offense. Many ppl think the earth is flat. I didn't even bring up complicated. You did. I said they were different.... Navy option concepts can be highly complicated but it's based off a different skill set
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