Seahawks trade for Jamal Adams

[stuvian]

Seattle is all in on winning now. 2 first rounders is steep

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

No one is struggling with that, but you are, as usual, pretending to miss the point.  I documented all of Adams's public whining chronologically to ask you why, if Gase was the problem all along, forcing him to seek a trade, did he mention Gase last in his list of grievances and not first?

 

Players are far more likely to complain about things on social media (see their recent wailing about NFL upcoming preparedness for camp...while their union were finishing up the details of the agreement they just voted for!).  Yet we have heard no one else pop off about how horrible Gase is--even anonymously.  And as I showed you---even ADAMS couldn't pinpoint Gase as the real problem until a month into his "get me out of here campaign".  A month!

 

Obviously he pivoted to Gase this late because his other efforts in his public campaign had failed. So he finally unwrapped "oh, and our HC sucks, man".

 

Yet.....a month ago, when Gase was asked about his relationship with Adams, he said this:

 

“My relationship with Jamal has been good since the time I’ve gotten here. We had a lot of discussions throughout the season trying to figure out ways to win. To me, we’ve always gotten along well. There’s been a lot of dialogue between us, especially about on- and off-the-field type topics.”

 

 

 

And did Adams, already making some noise on social media about his displeasure with not being signed to a new deal, dispute Gase's assessment?  Did he even comment on it? 

 

No, he did not.  Why is that?  Obviously because his beef was not with Gase or his coaching style at that time.  

 

This was the issue, doc: 

 

According to Adams, he was told by general manager Joe Douglas that they would discuss his contract in the offseason. As months went by and the team began to sign more rookies, Adams said the conversation turned.

 

 

“If they would have just simply said, ‘You know what, Jamal, we’re not going to look to pay you this year, we want to keep adding players' – I would have respected that more,” he said. “I would say, ‘You know what? I respect it. As a man, I get it. I understand it’s a business.’ But for them to tell me that they’re going to pay me and then not send over a proposal after they said that’s what they were going to, that’s where we go wrong. And then for you to ignore me, that’s why I have a problem.”

 

 

But no, you're right.  Adams woke up a few days ago, weeks into this and suddenly it dawned on him that Gase is the reason for his displeasure.  It is overwhelmingly obvious that, had the Jets gave him the deal he wanted (or at least did some sort of negotiation), he would still be a Jet and we would hear NOTHING about how bad his HC is.

 

You know this has nothing to do with Gase, and every player on that team knows this as well, so they are not going to say anything either way.

 

But yeah doc, despite all evidence to the contrary, this was all about how bad a coach Gase is.  

 

Solid.

 

Obviously contract has something to do with it as he'd have been willing to play for a bad HC and a team going nowhere if they make it worth his while.  But again it's not like he's saying anything everyone else (including Jets players) doesn't already know about Gase, and he could have gone about it without slamming Gase.  He could have, say, slammed Douglas, who refused to give him the new deal.  Which again makes the decision to hire Gase the mistake that we all knew it would be from the beginning.  This isn't hard.

 

Again all I care is he's off the Jets.  And it worked for him because he's in a much better situation now. 

 

 

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This is the exact point!!

 

Put it a different way to bring it around to the Bills. I think most of us would agree that an offensive tackle is the biggest need on the Bills right now. Maybe some people would say TE. If the Bills could trade 2 1sts right now for George Kittle should they do it? Ronnie Stanley? Lane Johnson? It just isn’t a position that we are accustomed to being in so we overrate draft picks. If your super bowl window is open, and you have a chance to get a superstar to plug your biggest need, you don‘t worry about draft picks in the 20’s.

hopefully even in the 30s

 

which is also why it takes 2 in many cases. This isn’t Jacksonville trading a probable top ten

[T master]

Well looks as if they have found their replacement for Richard Sherman (in all aspects) hasn't even finished his rookie contract and already made enough noise to get traded .

[Kwai San]

Wow to be the Jests.....2 first rounders!  Wonder how they will manage to screw the pooch with those picks.......actually in 4 -5 years with all the first rounders they will be picking they are gonna have a Salary Cap nightmare....  

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, T master said:

Well looks as if they have found their replacement for Richard Sherman (in all aspects) hasn't even finished his rookie contract and already made enough noise to get traded .

Guys often get traded on their rookie contracts. The teams deal them BEFORE having to make the financial commitment. If they’ve already paid them they carry a bunch of dead money as well. This is very common.

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

hopefully even in the 30s

 

which is also why it takes 2 in many cases. This isn’t Jacksonville trading a probable top ten

If you use 27 as the example (where Seattle picked this year) the value of all of the picks combined is the 8th pick.

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

No one said you’re paying your CB like your QB. You are paying him as a better version of Darius Slay, Byron Jones and Xavier Howard. Those are the 3 highest paid CBs and 2 of them signed this year. If you’re Tre’s agent do you think it’s reasonable to take less than Byron Jones? Put them side-by-side and it’s not all that close. That’s the way that it works in the NFL. You get paid based on comparable players at your position and the timing of your deal. Tre will certainly not take less than $17m a year.

The Honey Badger certainly elevates KC from “really good team” to Super Bowl champ. Their entire defense was better once they added him. 

 

 

They also added Frank Clark, Okafur, Damian Wilson.   Made ward a starter and the  and rookie Thornhill had 3 ints.

 

Honey Badger was a great pickup, but there were a bunch of new players that made that Defense better.  

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

Wow to be the Jests.....2 first rounders!  Wonder how they will manage to screw the pooch with those picks.......actually in 4 -5 years with all the first rounders they will be picking they are gonna have a Salary Cap nightmare....  

 

some of you are real silly with these salary cap concerns. 

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Guys often get traded on their rookie contracts. The teams deal them BEFORE having to make the financial commitment. If they’ve already paid them they carry a bunch of dead money as well. This is very common.

If you use 27 as the example (where Seattle picked this year) the value of all of the picks combined is the 8th pick.

Exactly. A pair of top ten picks is a huge gap from what’s likely dealt here. But we naturally jump to if it’d be a good deal in the lens of our last 20 years. I wouldn’t trade an 8 and 11 for him but a 27 and 30 is much more palatable. 

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Obviously contract has something to do with it as he'd have been willing to play for a bad HC and a team going nowhere if they make it worth his while.  But again it's not like he's saying anything everyone else (including Jets players) doesn't already know about Gase, and he could have gone about it without slamming Gase.  He could have, say, slammed Douglas, who refused to give him the new deal.  Which again makes the decision to hire Gase the mistake that we all knew it would be from the beginning.  This isn't hard.

 

Again all I care is he's off the Jets.  And it worked for him because he's in a much better situation now. 

 

 

 

He did slam Douglas (above).  

 

See?   This wasn't about Gase being a very bad coach at all.  You always come around, doc.

[T master]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Guys often get traded on their rookie contracts. The teams deal them BEFORE having to make the financial commitment. If they’ve already paid them they carry a bunch of dead money as well. This is very common.

 

Or in this case they look into their crystal ball and see that given the amount that he opens his mouth that he could be a malcontent to others around him until he is given what he wants to shut him up so when given a out they jump on it because his skill set doesn't out perform his mouth.

  

 

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If you use 27 as the example (where Seattle picked this year) the value of all of the picks combined is the 8th pick.

 

Not quite.  A pick in later year's is worth a round later.  For example, if the Jets try to trade Seattle's 2021 pick which, for this example, is at 27th (680 points), and packaged it with the Seahawks' 2022 1st rounder, which we'll also consider to be 27, that pick is worth 310 points, not 680.  Which puts it at 15th overall.  And that doesn't take into account that these are starting off as next year's (and the year after's) picks, which could put them even lower.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Doc

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Seattle is all in on winning now. 2 first rounders is steep

Two first rounders is steep, but I think we (and Jets fans) have a warped view of first rounders.  
 

When you’re typically drafting in the top half of the draft with some top ten picks mixed in, you start thinking of first rounders as franchise changers....

 

When you get to the late first round, you start getting into the pool of starter level players that are around 45-60 deep.  
 

Brandon Aiyuk went Pick 25 this last year.  Good player, but I don’t think we should be worried if the Jets take a Brandon Aiyuk type WR next year with Seattle’s draft pick.  
 

Nevermind the fact they don’t have Jamal Adams anymore, and that secondary may now be one of the worst in the NFL, as the cost of getting those two late 1sts. 
 

Still, I like the move for them, but it also need to be put in some perspective. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

some of you are real silly with these salary cap concerns. 

Exactly. A pair of top ten picks is a huge gap from what’s likely dealt here. But we naturally jump to if it’d be a good deal in the lens of our last 20 years. I wouldn’t trade an 8 and 11 for him but a 27 and 30 is much more palatable. 

 

 

I think combining the 2  1st round picks into a #8 equivalent may be beside the point.  They are getting 2 extra first round players out of the trade. Even "late" round picks have value over later rounds.  

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

He did slam Douglas (above).  

 

See?   This wasn't about Gase being a very bad coach at all.  You always come around, doc.

 

Nowhere did I say this was all about Gase.  You made that up.  But if that's all you got, go with it.  I stick by my assertion that hiring Gase was a mistake because he's a bad HC and that the 2 late first rounders won't help them as much as Adams did.

[Kirby Jackson]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

They also added Frank Clark, Okafur, Damian Wilson.   Made ward a starter and the  and rookie Thornhill had 3 ints.

 

Honey Badger was a great pickup, but there were a bunch of new players that made that Defense better.  

Certainly but he is the leader of that group. He’s as important to them for his leadership as his player. He’s the most important defensive player on that team.
 

They had Ford prior to Clark. they had pass rush. Alex Okafor is a decent role player. He only played 1/2 of the year. Thornhill certainly was a surprise. The point being the defense went from below average to good and Mathieu’s presence is the biggest reason why. There have already been rumblings if extending him after just a year there.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Certainly but he is the leader of that group. He’s as important to them for his leadership as his player. He’s the most important defensive player on that team.
 

They had Ford prior to Clark. they had pass rush. Alex Okafor is a decent role player. He only played 1/2 of the year. Thornhill certainly was a surprise. The point being the defense went from below average to good and Mathieu’s presence is the biggest reason why. There have already been rumblings if extending him after just a year there.

 

 

He's a leader for sure--great pickup..  But they made moves that also improved that D.  

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Or in this case they look into their crystal ball and see that given the amount that he opens his mouth that he could be a malcontent to others around him until he is given what he wants to shut him up so when given a out they jump on it because his skill set doesn't out perform his mouth.

  

 

...and from Seattle’s perspective, “we were 11-5 last year and have a chance to get a top 5 defensive player in all of football at a position If need.” It’s a win-win

[Coach Tuesday]

Again, he is just average against the pass.  He will help them defend the Niners’ running game but will struggle against passing teams like the Rams.  And it’s a passing league.  Maybe Schneider and Carroll are going all in for one more run this year or next (and maybe the prediction that Russell Wilson gets traded in a year or two comes to pass).

[Kirby Jackson]

34 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Not quite.  A pick in later year's is worth a round later.  For example, if the Jets try to trade Seattle's 2021 pick which, for this example, is at 27th (680 points), and packaged it with the Seahawks' 2022 1st rounder, which we'll also consider to be 27, that pick is worth 310 points, not 680.  Which puts it at 15th overall.  And that doesn't take into account that these are starting off and next year's (and the year after's) picks.

Fair enough, I used 680 in this case because they aren’t being forced to wait they are doubling up. Usually you value the following year down a round because you are making the decision to wait on the asset (ie this year’s 2nd for next year’s first). In this case the Jets are getting both.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Chicken Boo]

17 hours ago, SCBills said:

Surprised at the haul sent back for Adams.. Not because of his talent, dude is a fantastic chess piece on defense, but 2-1sts for a Safety... yeesh. 
 

Glad to see him out of the division, but if the Jets GM can draft, that’s a great return. 

 

I agree, but from Seattle's perspective, they're expecting to be picking very late in the 1st round and Adams might be the final piece for that defense.  

 

If they somehow manage to re-sign Clowney, look out!