SCBills Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) Jets lose an All-Pro, centerpiece impact player in Jamal Adams Jets gain/avoid spending massive cap space on a Safety. Jets gain two (likely) late first round draft picks over the next two years. Given Adams wanted out, I think they did a great job. It all depends what they do with those picks and cap space. Can they parlay two late first round picks and $10-$12 mil in cap space (rough difference between what they’d pay Adams minus what they’ll pay the two late 1sts) into an impact equivalent/better than what Jamal Adams provided? Regardless of if they do, or not, they just made Year 3 of Sam Darnold more difficult. Edited July 26, 2020 by SCBills 1
FireChans Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, HappyDays said: People still overrate draft picks. If you had 2 picks in the late 1st round and one of them turned into Jamal Adams you would be thrilled. The Seahawks traded a guess for a sure thing. That is what you do when you're a contender. It's the same reason the Bills traded for Diggs. The Jets now have no building blocks in their secondary and they have to hit on both picks as starters for the trade to be worth it. Great players > draft picks, every time. That’s a far too simplistic way to describe it. Your argument would support that the Dolphins should have considered trading pick 5 for Adams. After all, players over picks. However, we all know that’s nonsense, because the Dolphins were angling for a QB, and trading a first rounder on a depleted team devoid of talent for a solitary player who may or may not be retained is just not smart team building. Also, a team that has agreed with your philosophy wholeheartedly is the Rams. They have believed players > picks and executed that plan for the last 3 years. I think they have been mostly right in their assessment, but I wonder your opinion on their future.
HappyDays Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 18 minutes ago, FireChans said: That’s a far too simplistic way to describe it. Your argument would support that the Dolphins should have considered trading pick 5 for Adams. After all, players over picks. However, we all know that’s nonsense, because the Dolphins were angling for a QB, and trading a first rounder on a depleted team devoid of talent for a solitary player who may or may not be retained is just not smart team building. Also, a team that has agreed with your philosophy wholeheartedly is the Rams. They have believed players > picks and executed that plan for the last 3 years. I think they have been mostly right in their assessment, but I wonder your opinion on their future. Sure that was too simplistic of me, it obviously isn't a universal truth. If you don't need the position upgraded or if you're looking for a QB or if you're putting yourself in cap jail because you make too many trades for players, then you are better off keeping the draft picks. I'm just talking about one off scenarios. In general if I have the choice between the great player or the draft pick(s), I'm taking the great player. The exception would be if I can't afford him or I don't need him. The Jets can afford Adams AND they need his position AND the draft picks they got back aren't the best value. It's easy for me to say they lost that trade. It's the same reason I say Diggs was a no brainer trade for the Bills with no downside.
FireChans Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 Just now, HappyDays said: Sure that was too simplistic of me, it obviously isn't a universal truth. If you don't need the position upgraded or if you're looking for a QB or if you're putting yourself in cap jail because you make too many trades for players, then you are better off keeping the draft picks. I'm just talking about one off scenarios. In general if I have the choice between the great player or the draft pick(s), I'm taking the great player. The exception would be if I can't afford him or I don't need him. The Jets can afford Adams AND they need his position AND the draft picks they got back aren't the best value. It's easy for me to say they lost that trade. It's the same reason I say Diggs was a no brainer trade for the Bills with no downside. Okay, fair enough. I understand that position. I like the bolded because it does draw a nice parallel. The issue is when you look at the core position needs, (QB, EDGE/pass rusher, CB, WR, OT of which most folks agree are the most important), how many of those positions do the Jets have filled vs the Bills prior to the Diggs/Adams trade? Jets/Bills QB - Darnold/Allen (presumably) EDGE/pass rush - Jenkins-Williams/Hughes-Oliver CB - ?????/White (maybe Poole or Pierre for the Jets?) WR - ????/Brown (Crowder/Mims? OT - Becton/Dawkins (but the Jets player hasn't played a snap yet) So looking at those positions, just at a glance, the Bills are pretty much better in every category except arguably pass rush, right? And if we agree that the Jets should be reasonably expected to improve their pass rush, CB, and WR positions, how can they NOT trade a player who is giving you every inclination he is walking, for 2 first round picks, which statistically gives you the best chance to fill those blue chip positions? In contrast, the Bills are close to set. The Diggs trade is a no-brainer because of how few needs we have in our overall team makeup. If we had great WR's and no Dawkins, trading for Trent Williams would have been a no-brainer too. To me, I would say if the Jets traded Adams for Diggs straight up, that would have been a good trade. Because we know a good WR matters more than a good SS. If they traded Adams for Aaron Donald, or for Khalil Mack, that would have been a good trade too. But those trades would never happen, because while Adams is a great player, he ain't worth an elite pass rusher. None of this is even getting into the rest of the Jets roster which ain't great. But I understand the trade, the rationale behind it. And the Jets brass knows they have more gambling on hitting on those picks now.
y2zipper Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 Every first round pick is at least a cheap starter for 3-5 years and a shot an all-pro if a team drafts competently. If you're not hitting on first rounders you don't stay employed. Football has talent abundance and safety isn't a critical position that's going to win or lose Seattle a Super Bowl. If Seattle traded multiple first-round picks in an effort to beef up their pass rush or their bad protection for Wilson, I would feel different about it. The Jets did well here. If you can get multiple picks for any non QB/pass protector/pass rusher it's probably worthwhile to make a trade.
Doc Brown Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: People still overrate draft picks. If you had 2 picks in the late 1st round and one of them turned into Jamal Adams you would be thrilled. The Seahawks traded a guess for a sure thing. That is what you do when you're a contender. It's the same reason the Bills traded for Diggs. The Jets now have no building blocks in their secondary and they have to hit on both picks as starters for the trade to be worth it. Great players > draft picks, every time. With the rookie wage scale first round picks have gone up in value. The Jets now have four opportunities in the next two years to draft solid starters in the first round and won't be cap strapped because they gave Adams a big deal. That saved cap space will be important if Donald is their guy when they look to resigning him.
FireChans Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, y2zipper said: Every first round pick is at least a cheap starter for 3-5 years and a shot an all-pro if a team drafts competently. If you're not hitting on first rounders you don't stay employed. Football has talent abundance and safety isn't a critical position that's going to win or lose Seattle a Super Bowl. If Seattle traded multiple first-round picks in an effort to beef up their pass rush or their bad protection for Wilson, I would feel different about it. The Jets did well here. If you can get multiple picks for any non QB/pass protector/pass rusher it's probably worthwhile to make a trade. Interestingly enough, from 2011 to 2018, players picked 20-32, an average of 3 players make a ProBowl at least once in their career.
Doc Brown Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 51 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Sure that was too simplistic of me, it obviously isn't a universal truth. If you don't need the position upgraded or if you're looking for a QB or if you're putting yourself in cap jail because you make too many trades for players, then you are better off keeping the draft picks. I'm just talking about one off scenarios. In general if I have the choice between the great player or the draft pick(s), I'm taking the great player. The exception would be if I can't afford him or I don't need him. The Jets can afford Adams AND they need his position AND the draft picks they got back aren't the best value. It's easy for me to say they lost that trade. It's the same reason I say Diggs was a no brainer trade for the Bills with no downside. I agree that I'd rather pay a proven asset than take a chance on a 1st rounder. That's assuming you only lose one first rounder. Not two. The Bills only gave up one first round pick though. Same thing with the Steelers and Minkah Fitzpatrick. Frank Clark to the Chiefs, etc...
Rico Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 Sweet trade for the Jets. I would've been tempted to take a little less and trade him to a dumpster fire like the Redskins.
nucci Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 Seahawks don't worry too much about the future. They have Wilson and try to win every year
SirAndrew Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Gase blows. But he’s a goner at seasons end if he even makes it that far. I’d bet a whole lot of money on that.... so the draft picks have nothing to do with Gase. I’m not convinced the Jets ditch Gase if he goes 8-8 or something like that. People on this board have more faith in that franchise doing anything right than I do. 4 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: Isn't it good for the Jets by definition if it is a good deal for them? I'm with you on Gase but non of that really matters in just grading the trade. I can see how my words were confusing. I mean the Jets are instantly weaker without Adams. The draft picks are the good part, but acquiring and keeping talent is also important. Nothing about that franchise convinces me they’ll make wise choices with the draft picks, and actually keep the players if they do. The Jets have been a revolving door roster wise for years, and while the trade got them nice draft picks, at some point the revolving door needs to close. It can be just as good to keep and build around talent, as it is to acquire draft picks. That’s why I see this trade from both angles. It just seems like the Jets are in a constant state of upheaval. Edited July 26, 2020 by SirAndrew
machine gun kelly Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Locomark said: This is a win for the Jets long term and further pushes the Pats down to the cellar in the next 2 years. This draft capital makes this look like it could be a very tough division in a few years. We better go get some divisions NOW while the getting is easier. The Jets May improve in time, but only if they fire Gase. That tool is the best thing for us in the division. The Pats will fall, and as I mentioned somewhere else, the Fish are the ones to watch. They have a decent coach, if their QB holds up against injury, and all of the new players they brought in this year, they will be competitive in a couple of years. I can see us going 5-1, or maybe even 6-0 this year in the division. We’ll need that record given we face the Seahawks, 49ers, a much improved AZ, the Chiefs, Steelers with Big Ben, TN who made it to the championship beating the Pats, and the Ravens on the road in the playoffs, and I see the Broncos improving this year. That is one helluva schedule so 5-1 is going to be needed to win the division. I’m not saying we can’t beat some of these teams listed above, but we’re not going to beat all of them. We are fortunate almost our entire starting squad on offense and defense is returning. That’s our ace in the hole this year. 1 1
Mr. WEO Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, HappyDays said: People still overrate draft picks. If you had 2 picks in the late 1st round and one of them turned into Jamal Adams you would be thrilled. The Seahawks traded a guess for a sure thing. That is what you do when you're a contender. It's the same reason the Bills traded for Diggs. The Jets now have no building blocks in their secondary and they have to hit on both picks as starters for the trade to be worth it. Great players > draft picks, every time. No organization builds a team around a Safety. No safety has been yielded 2 1st rounders in trade. There have been QB's (Cutler cost 2 1st rounders, so did Jeff George and Jim Everett), RBs (Ricky Williams, Eric Dickerson, Herschel Walker) and WR (Keyshawn Johnson). Other than KJ, the trade was either a dud or outright disaster for the team that gave up the picks. Mack to Chicago hasn't paid dividends for there Bears. For this trade to be worth it for the Seahawks, they need a SB appearance in the next 2 years. Then they have to pay the man. Carroll will be 70. The window for Seattle is now, not 4 years from now. Edited July 26, 2020 by Mr. WEO
billsfan89 Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: No organization builds a team around a Safety. No safety has been yielded 2 1st rounders in trade. There have been QB's (Cutler cost 2 1st rounders, so did Jeff George and Jim Everett), RBs (Ricky Williams, Eric Dickerson, Herschel Walker) and WR (Keyshawn Johnson). Other than KJ, the trade was either a dud or outright disaster for the team that gave up the picks. For this trade to be worth it for the Seahawks, they need a SB appearance in the next 2 years. Then they have to pay the man. Carroll will be 70. The window for Seattle is now, not 4 years from now. It's not just the draft picks, Adam's wants to be paid so not only are you giving up 2 firsts and swapping a third for a fourth but you are also giving up a chunk of your cap space. Now this would easily be justified for a QB and could be justified for a prime pass rusher. But a large cap and draft capital commitment for a safety? That's insane. 1
Mr. WEO Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: It's not just the draft picks, Adam's wants to be paid so not only are you giving up 2 firsts and swapping a third for a fourth but you are also giving up a chunk of your cap space. Now this would easily be justified for a QB and could be justified for a prime pass rusher. But a large cap and draft capital commitment for a safety? That's insane. It has to have a fairly quick payoff. Edited July 26, 2020 by Mr. WEO
Coach Tuesday Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 4 hours ago, HappyDays said: People still overrate draft picks. If you had 2 picks in the late 1st round and one of them turned into Jamal Adams you would be thrilled. The Seahawks traded a guess for a sure thing. That is what you do when you're a contender. It's the same reason the Bills traded for Diggs. The Jets now have no building blocks in their secondary and they have to hit on both picks as starters for the trade to be worth it. Great players > draft picks, every time. You’re ignoring the salary cap. Low first round picks are highly cost-controlled assets. Trading two of those for a non-premium player whom you’re now going to have to give a rich contract to makes little sense cap-wise. It’s one thing to do it for a left tackle but a box safety?!?!
billsfan89 Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It has to have a fairly quick payoff. The Seahawks have to feel that they were only one player away from a SB. But I just don't see that player being Jamal Adams.
PromoTheRobot Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 Swami Mike Francesca. New York Post: Mike Francesa whiffs on Jamal Adams take during final WFAN show.https://nypost.com/2020/07/26/mike-francesa-whiffs-on-jamal-adams-take-during-final-wfan-show/
Mr. K Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 Im just hoping Josh can hit the deep ball against them this year often. Oh yeah and all 3 of those picks bust.
njbuff Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Swami Mike Francesca. New York Post: Mike Francesa whiffs on Jamal Adams take during final WFAN show.https://nypost.com/2020/07/26/mike-francesa-whiffs-on-jamal-adams-take-during-final-wfan-show/ Well, the man has done shows five days a week for almost 30 years on WFAN. He is bound to say stupid stuff. With that said, he is a blowhard.
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