Those 'Poor' People earning $200k

[Alaska Darin]

5 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I live in DC.  

 

I’m living in poverty then. 
 

Depends on your situation, which is my overall point.  It's easy to get people who make $50-100k a year who live in low cost areas where real estate is affordable and schools are good/safe get all spun up when someone makes double (or more) money than they do.  That's why the articles are written the way they are.

 

I really liked the line about how his accountant lined out his 401K as an expense.  Heaven forbid anyone plan for their (and their family's) future and use the system as it's designed.  Oh, the humanity.

 

Evil, evil rich people.  Now get out in the streets and riot for more government control of your lives.  They're the only ones who can save you now.

 

 

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, LB3 said:

I feel the same way about poor people (which I was growing up).

  Some people truly make bad choices but some only have so much gas in the tank intellectually.  I am not going to hate the person who simply cannot grasp advanced science or math and lacks the stamina to swing a hammer 8 hours a day.  At the same time I am not going to feel sorry for the person who will not goes as far as stocking the shelves at Walgreens or dumps 100 plus dollars per week at the local tavern.  

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Two things for me, one, the woman whining can go ahead and whine just don't expect anyone to take you seriously. Two, I would rather have someone making 500k living check to check because they are spending the money. They are paying the nanny and the private schools etc. To me that's better than the government getting that money to prop up things that don't work well. My biggest issue with the taxes is inheritence. You've lived the American dream, made a lot of money but either give it away or give it to the government. Your kids should not own an outlandish pile of money because you did well. 

 

I will also say I don't mind paying fees or taxes if the money is used relatively well. My biggest issues are things like the post office or the VA hospital system that just needs a do over instead of cash infusions to keep a bad process alive. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Depends on your situation, which is my overall point.  It's easy to get people who make $50-100k a year who live in low cost areas where real estate is affordable and schools are good/safe get all spun up when someone makes double (or more) money than they do.  That's why the articles are written the way they are.

 

I really liked the line about how his accountant lined out his 401K as an expense.  Heaven forbid anyone plan for their (and their family's) future and use the system as it's designed.  Oh, the humanity.

 

I feel confident you will not let it get in the way of your snark, but the point of the article was the accountant's claim that the family hardly had any money left over for savings.

401(k) is a form of tax-advantaged savings, and their budget called for them to save a substantial amount in this manner.

 

It's not reasonable to budget including good chunk of savings (specially tax advantaged savings at that), and then complain that you don't have much money left over to save.  Oh, the humanity! indeed.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Two things for me, one, the woman whining can go ahead and whine just don't expect anyone to take you seriously. Two, I would rather have someone making 500k living check to check because they are spending the money. They are paying the nanny and the private schools etc.

 

That is a point.  They're spending money and boosting the economy.  On the other hand, there are stories of people who lose that big paycheck and for some reason are unable to return to earning a similar sum and wind up on various forms of government assistance.  I'm not really down with that.  If you earn big, save enough that you can take care of your fam when times turn.

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

41 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

I am not going to hate the person who simply cannot grasp advanced science or math

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

No doubt, but where do you think that the bulk of 200K families tend to live? My guess is that they live in high tax states. If your family income is 200K on Long Island, nobody is impressed, and your property tax could easily be 15K. Easily, and now with the NYC exodus, the taxes will skyrocket. Home prices already have.

 

Can't find that info.  Being honest, didn't dig very hard. 

You may be correct that many families live in high-tax states, but for many there's an element of personal choice there, too.  A number of companies struggle to recruit to St Louis (this is for very well paying, professional jobs - jobs where a two-income family earns >$200k).  

People want to stay on the coasts and avoid living in "Flyover Country".

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, Alaska Darin said:

I love reading class warfare pieces and then the resulting commentary of the envious/ignorant.  Making $200k in expensive places like NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, LA, etc doesn't make you rich, it makes you middle class.  That's why so many of them bail for much cheaper places at some point.

 

Politicians love that they've yet to corner the market on ignorance. 

Certain  places in Chicago  area are expensive,  the northern side... But you  can live like a king and work in Chicago  on $200k... Still be away from it, have lots of property,  etc... Being not racist, helps  even more.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

 I like how they say they should get it because they pay the most taxes. They obviously don't have a good accountant because most people making that kind of money find the loopholes or have connections to pay very little taxes

 

My wife has a way of turning this around. She says “you don’t HAVE to take you’re mom to the doctor, you GET to take your mom to the doctor. I wish I could still take mine.” 

 

If we have a good year and have to write a big tax check in April, we don’t complain, we’re thankful for a good year. It’s a matter of perspective and lifestyle. I learned very early in my banking days that MANY of the people driving their fancy cars and living in those giant houses were over their limit and 60 days behind on their credit cards. No thanks, I don’t want that lifestyle! I like to sleep at night.  

 

Plan for the worst case, not the best case. Life happens. Save the help for people who really need it. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

No doubt, but where do you think that the bulk of 200K families tend to live? My guess is that they live in high tax states. If your family income is 200K on Long Island, nobody is impressed, and your property tax could easily be 15K. Easily, and now with the NYC exodus, the taxes will skyrocket. Home prices already have.

 

My wife interviewed a young guy not long ago making $220k in NYC. She had to tell him it’s a $75k job in Atlanta. She tried to explain he’d probably break even, but his ego couldn’t take the blow. 

 

Her current position was supposed to require us moving to NYC with the rest of the team. She said thank you anyway, we had family and lifestyle considerations. They caved and she works from Atlanta. (We now know how easy that can be, with FAR less travel and related expense.) They never got to how much more they would have to pay to get her to NYC, but I was curious how that would go. 

 

To make $200k in some places is nothing like $200k in others. I don’t resent people with wealth or high incomes. Good for them!  But if they are stupid about it, that’s their problem. Sadly, people in lower income brackets are bad with finances too, and they are already on the brink of trouble. 

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

A lot of people have misconceptions about how most (obviously not all) millionaires live. 

 

From https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/the-next-millionaire-next-door-provides-a-road-map-for-us-all

 

". . . seventy-five percent of millionaires paid less than $1000 for their most expensive suit. Fifty percent of millionaires paid less than $300 for their most expensive watch. Three-quarters of American millionaires paid less than $300 for their most expensive pair of shoes. She also found that 65 percent of American millionaires live in homes that are currently worth less than a million dollars.

 

Today, about 9 percent of U.S. households have a net worth that exceeds a million dollars. That’s up from 3.5 percent in 1996. Most millionaires (93 percent) have a college degree. But most millionaires didn’t go to an expensive private college."

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

A lot of people have misconceptions about how most (obviously not all) millionaires live. 

 

From https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/the-next-millionaire-next-door-provides-a-road-map-for-us-all

 

". . . seventy-five percent of millionaires paid less than $1000 for their most expensive suit. Fifty percent of millionaires paid less than $300 for their most expensive watch. Three-quarters of American millionaires paid less than $300 for their most expensive pair of shoes. She also found that 65 percent of American millionaires live in homes that are currently worth less than a million dollars.

 

 Today, about 9 percent of U.S. households have a net worth that exceeds a million dollars. That’s up from 3.5 percent in 1996. Most millionaires (93 percent) have a college degree. But most millionaires didn’t go to an expensive private college."

 

I wonder how the bold looks when adjusted for inflation. Not arguing, just curious and too lazy to take a rough shot at the math. 

 

Regardless, being a millionaire ain’t what it used to be. 

 

As my FIL always said, it’s not how much you make, it’s how much you keep. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That is a point.  They're spending money and boosting the economy.  On the other hand, there are stories of people who lose that big paycheck and for some reason are unable to return to earning a similar sum and wind up on various forms of government assistance.  I'm not really down with that.  If you earn big, save enough that you can take care of your fam when times turn.

 

Some folks just have to keep up with the Jones of the world.

 

I'm fine with even them getting on the government as long as they don't linger on it. Going broke from making a lot of money would be traumatic. I would hope for those folks that a lesson would be learned, but there are all types out there.

 

 

 

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

My wife interviewed a young guy not long ago making $220k in NYC. She had to tell him it’s a $75k job in Atlanta. She tried to explain he’d probably break even, but his ego couldn’t take the blow. 

 

Her current position was supposed to require us moving to NYC with the rest of the team. She said thank you anyway, we had family and lifestyle considerations. They caved and she works from Atlanta. (We now know how easy that can be, with FAR less travel and related expense.) They never got to how much more they would have to pay to get her to NYC, but I was curious how that would go. 

 

To make $200k in some places is nothing like $200k in others. I don’t resent people with wealth or high incomes. Good for them!  But if they are stupid about it, that’s their problem. Sadly, people in lower income brackets are bad with finances too, and they are already on the brink of trouble. 

 

Exactly.  That article is even worse than some of the takes in this thread.  But good luck explaining that to the crowd that eats up this nonsense propaganda and thinks '$200k/year = champagne filled swimming pool and servants'.

 

The only way anyone can possibly live out here is if they are a) well over $100k, or b) bought a house before RE went crazy 15-20 years ago.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

A lot of people have misconceptions about how most (obviously not all) millionaires live. 

 

From https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-center/articles/the-next-millionaire-next-door-provides-a-road-map-for-us-all

 

". . . seventy-five percent of millionaires paid less than $1000 for their most expensive suit. Fifty percent of millionaires paid less than $300 for their most expensive watch. Three-quarters of American millionaires paid less than $300 for their most expensive pair of shoes. She also found that 65 percent of American millionaires live in homes that are currently worth less than a million dollars.

 

Today, about 9 percent of U.S. households have a net worth that exceeds a million dollars. That’s up from 3.5 percent in 1996. Most millionaires (93 percent) have a college degree. But most millionaires didn’t go to an expensive private college."

Less than $300 for a watch! They’re in the poorhouse!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

If we have a good year and have to write a big tax check in April, we don’t complain, we’re thankful for a good year. It’s a matter of perspective and lifestyle. I learned very early in my banking days that MANY of the people driving their fancy cars and living in those giant houses were over their limit and 60 days behind on their credit cards. No thanks, I don’t want that lifestyle! I like to sleep at night. 

 

I learned that from being a parent at my kid's school.  It was a bit intimidating at first with all the people driving fancy cars and living in McMansions while we live in a modest neighborhood and I drive a used Toyota. 

 

Our financial advisor, himself a graduate of the school, put us straight: "For some of those people, your yearly income is peanuts.  For many others, they earn no more than you, but they're spending every penny.  They've got nothing in the bank, they're making payments on everything they've got, their credit cards are maxed out and if they lose their job and don't get another one in a month, they're going to go deep in debt."

 

Or as a friend of mine said when his wife lost her job while he was unemployed: "Weeeellll, I don't imagine they'll be coming to take the house back any time soon" (they owed $0)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

46 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Exactly.  That article is even worse than some of the takes in this thread.  But good luck explaining that to the crowd that eats up this nonsense propaganda and thinks '$200k/year = champagne filled swimming pool and servants'.

 

Did you actually look at the article?

 

These were people, in the 95% of earning for the US, complaining that they didn't get CARES money: "I don’t feel that earning $200,000 a year should be too much to qualify under the CARES Act."

 

I haven't seen anyone on here suggesting that $200k = champagne filled swimming pools and servants.  But it's well-to-do by any standard. 

Yes, in some high-income parts of the country you truly may not be able to buy a house or a co-op in the location you desire.  You may have to make the trade-offs most of my friends who remained in Boston made: either live further out and commute, or live closer to the city in a postage stamp or a fixer-upper.  Or rent.  Or find other creative solutions.

 

But people at that income level should really not be complaining about their need for government stimulus hand-outs.

 

 

[Greybeard]

7 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Waaaaaah.

 

Our household makes less than half of that, we pay about $25k/year for health insurance, I lost 3 months worth of work from one client because of the virus, and we've got a son in college. Our stimulus check went to charities that are helping people who really got screwed by COVID-19.

 

I wonder how those people feel about raising minimum wage to $15/hr. (Never mind - I can probably guess.)

 

 

     Ah, the "Affordable Health Care Act."   The politicians who passed it should have been forced to use it.

[KD in CA]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Did you actually look at the article?

 

These were people, in the 95% of earning for the US, complaining that they didn't get CARES money: "I don’t feel that earning $200,000 a year should be too much to qualify under the CARES Act."

 

I haven't seen anyone on here suggesting that $200k = champagne filled swimming pools and servants.  But it's well-to-do by any standard. 

Yes, in some high-income parts of the country you truly may not be able to buy a house or a co-op in the location you desire.  You may have to make the trade-offs most of my friends who remained in Boston made: either live further out and commute, or live closer to the city in a postage stamp or a fixer-upper.  Or rent.  Or find other creative solutions.

 

But people at that income level should really not be complaining about their need for government stimulus hand-outs.

 

 

 

I disagree that people who actually paid for the the stimulus don't have a reasonable argument for participating in receiving it.   The article isolates income level as the only determinate of being 'rich' or 'wealthy' (terms liberally thrown around in that article), as you seem to be continuing to do while ignoring how misguided that is to use as a single test of financial condition.....as several people have attempted to point out here.

 

 

 

[cle23]

I agree, to an extent.

 

My wife and I claimed $296,000 last year. My wife makes about $42,000. I own a small metal fabrication company with profits about $200,000 last year, and payroll of about $54,000 for myself. I paid about $55,000 into taxes, so it looks like I can just walk away with $150,000 at the end of the year but it didn't work that way. The company needs operating money. I took out around $10,000 to cover my Roth and throw some in another investment account.

 

We live ok, but nothing lavish. A house worth half our towns average ( ours is around 100k).  Newer car, but a Subaru, not a BMW or some high dollar model. 

 

So $200,000 didn't mean some extravagant lifestyle of the rich.