GunnerBill Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, matter2003 said: I get it. But the hard reality of the situation is that if a woman's respect level has deteriorated that much for a man that she is willing to do that it is only going to get worse not better if he does what he has been doing. Now, does he actually have to fully walk away? No. But she has to BELIEVE he is capable of it and that if her behavior continues he WILL. She has to believe there some negative consequence for her actions because otherwise he is in effect positively reinforcing her behavior by not doing anything. At the end of the day it's about self respect. People typically will only be treated in a way they allow themselves to be treated. I think it is easier said than done. It creates absolute mental turmoil for the partner on the receiving end and that is without the added stigma that an abused male feels. Like I say, my friend is not someone you would have perceived as a submissive person or lacking in force of character. Saying you are only treated in a way you allow yourself to be treated is right but it is also simplistic. Changing things is much harder than you imagine. 2 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Believe, don't believe it, it doesn't matter. If you analyze ANY relationship where this stuff happens the root cause is they refused to hold their own self-respect as the most important element in their relationship. I am sorry I just don't believe this to be true. 2
Big Turk Posted July 25, 2020 Author Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think it is easier said than done. It creates absolute mental turmoil for the partner on the receiving end and that is without the added stigma that an abused male feels. Like I say, my friend is not someone you would have perceived as a submissive person or lacking in force of character. Saying you are only treated in a way you allow yourself to be treated is right but it is also simplistic. Changing things is much harder than you imagine. I agree that changing things is harder, but that is precisely why self-respect being held as the number 1 most important thing comes into play. If a person refuses to value you properly, you simply have to walk away. It doesn't matter what else is going on. Because if you want a person to ultimately place a higher value on you, how can you have that when you are showing you are willing to accept when they place an ever increasing lower value on you?? No. You have to show them that if they refuse to place the same value on you as you have for yourself you will walk. This then acts in the reverse way most people think...it tends to greatly increases their respect, love and interest for you because you show them you value yourself, which then forces them to value you more. Edited July 25, 2020 by matter2003
GunnerBill Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 Just now, matter2003 said: I agree that changing things is harder, but that is precisely why self-respect being held as the number 1 most important thing comes into play. If a person refuses to value you properly, you simply have to walk away. It doesn't matter what else is going on. Because if you want a person to ultimately place a higher value on you, how can you have that when you are showing you are willing to accept when they place an ever lower value on you?? No. You have to show them that if they refuse to place the same value on you as you have for yourself you will walk. This then acts in the reverse way most people think...it tends to greatly increases their respect, love and interest for you because you show them you value yourself, which then forces them to value you more. You do have to simply walk away.... but making that decision is incredibly difficult and people try and make that the last resort which is why it often takes multiple incidents for them to get to that stage. It is very easy to say "well if it happened to me that is what I would do". Until we have been there none of us really know how we would react. We know how we think we would. But I suspect most victims would have considered their likely reactions the same way. 2
Reader Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 I had a professor who was studying abusive relationships where women were the abuser. I don't remember too much about his research other than how incredibly challenging it is for a man to be able to handle the situation. Cops get called? Guess who they are going to believe the majority of the time? I guess the question is how much do you put any of this on Fluker? I mean aside from self-defense and a few other situations, I doubt his girlfriend could provide any justification for her actions I could find legitimate. Most people learn to use their words and not their fists by the age of thirteen apparently she thinks it's okay to act in this way because of "His" actions. Because he is a man, more people will probably say he need to do x, y or z instead of the fact that DV by anyone is unacceptable; I don't care who it is against. Rule of thumb, but not always true, the "nicer" someone is the more at risk they are for a relationship like this. In trauma a person can very easily internalize the actions of others. He hit me because I made him mad. (As if anyone can make anyone else do something like that) Since we're humans and have empathy our mirror neurons cause us to feel what those around us feel. More empathy means stronger mirror neurons which means easier to feel responsible.
GunnerBill Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Reader said: I had a professor who was studying abusive relationships where women were the abuser. I don't remember too much about his research other than how incredibly challenging it is for a man to be able to handle the situation. Cops get called? Guess who they are going to believe the majority of the time? The incident that finally caused my friend to walk away the police arrested him. Despite the fact he had locked himself in the bathroom and called the police.
Augie Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 Once again, we don’t have enough information to pronounce exactly what can and should be done HERE. Without more info, I’ll just hope for the best for everyone, especially the child. I have been close to a situation that sounds similar. The mother could be physically and mentally/emotionally abusive. The father wanted to walk away from that relationship, but wasn’t willing to abandon his child. He stayed in the relationship as long as he could, all while letting events mount to the point that he finally won custody of the child. A case was built against the mother using her own actions. You need a VERY strong case to take the child away from the mother, but it sounds like that’s happening here. I appreciate a man who tries to keep a family together in the face of adversity, especially if he’s putting the best interest of the child ahead of himself, at least temporarily. Being a parent requires a lot of dedication and sacrifice. We have been fortunate in life, but there have been many times we’ve put our kids ahead of ourselves in many different ways. That’s called.....being a good parent in my book. (There are limits, but that’s way down the road and another story.) 4
Reader Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The incident that finally caused my friend to walk away the police arrested him. Despite the fact he had locked himself in the bathroom and called the police. It really is terrible and all too common. I am a counselor and I haven't had any male clients who have dealt with this to this extreme, but I have definitely had talks and planned things out with a few who were concerned about a relationship escalating to this point.
Coach Tuesday Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, matter2003 said: See but that is the problem. Women will constantly test and push to see what they can get away with. They will start with small disrespectful things and if you allow it, they will keep doing slightly more disrespectful things until it gets to a point where they have no regard for the man(and no respect for him as a man) like the situation you describe and stay(for a while...until they eventually get to a point they view him with such disdain [blah blah blah] Maybe the internet should require a license. No actually, it’s great that anyone with a pulse can claim to be an expert on how all women act and what they all want. Edited July 25, 2020 by Coach Tuesday 1
Lfod Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, matter2003 said: I am not sure what type of man allows this type of behavior from a woman he is dating/has a child with, let alone a big 350 lb OL... Sad that is happened bit even sadder as a man you allow this to happen. And I am NOT suggesting he retaliate with violence himself, I am suggesting he lets her know that will never happen again and if it did he walks away forever. Typically this is the end result after a lot of other disrespectful behavior that is allowed to happen without him doing or saying anything. And by "doing" the advocation is walking away. Always walk away from disrespect from a woman. https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/ravens-ol-dj-fluker-victim-domestic-violence-incidents-024119785.html You need to have dated a really beautiful girl that you love very deeply that has a bit of an attitude to understand why other people would put up with a lot. It's easy to tell a girl your not that attracted too and don't love that much to take a walk. Edited July 25, 2020 by Lfod
FireChans Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 32 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Maybe the internet should require a license. No actually, it’s great that anyone with a pulse can claim to be an expert on how all women act and what they all want. Everyone on the Internet is Mel Gibson.
nucci Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Victory Formation said: Men are usually more physically abusive, women are usually more emotionally abusive. This is why men need to be more cautious with who they sleep with. Sure, they may be more soft, lucious and beautiful at first but they can quickly dig their hooks and flip personalities in an instant. All of a sudden she has full custody of the kids and she’s taking half of what you got and she’s spreading lies about you to your children and turning them against you and the worst part is she’s in your life forever. Then all of a sudden you’re paying not only for your ex and your kids but also her new boyfriend she seduced to make you jealous. She’s screwing every guy in town but you just to piss you off. speaking from experience?
Coach Tuesday Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 Lol these incels talking about what women really want... 1 3 1
Paulus Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 Women do this a lot more than we are aware. Then, the get a rise out of the guy, and call the cops on him. In other words, IT'S A TRAP
Buffalo716 Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think it is easier said than done. It creates absolute mental turmoil for the partner on the receiving end and that is without the added stigma that an abused male feels. Like I say, my friend is not someone you would have perceived as a submissive person or lacking in force of character. Saying you are only treated in a way you allow yourself to be treated is right but it is also simplistic. Changing things is much harder than you imagine. I am sorry I just don't believe this to be true. Once you give that power to a woman, where she uses that power to put you down and disrespect you It is awfully hard to get that power back. Sometimes impossible 2
Big Turk Posted July 25, 2020 Author Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Lfod said: You need to have dated a really beautiful girl that you love very deeply that has a bit of an attitude to understand why other people would put up with a lot. It's easy to tell a girl your not that attracted too and don't love that much to take a walk. The truth is for every beautiful woman there is a man out there who sick of her crap.
boater Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, Paulus said: Women do this a lot more than we are aware. Then, the get a rise out of the guy, and call the cops on him. In other words, IT'S A TRAP Correctomundo. It's a trap. The minute the 350 lb OL lifts his pinky, he's going to jail for DV...and she knows it. It's her end game. Amplified when their is a big paycheck involved. All the power to him for not biting. I for one, am sympathetic for the guy. Surprised this thread is still open. 1
Big Turk Posted July 25, 2020 Author Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Lol these incels talking about what women really want... Brother incels don't talk like that. They rant and rave and cry and scream about how women are garbage and how they can't get one. 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: Maybe the internet should require a license. No actually, it’s great that anyone with a pulse can claim to be an expert on how all women act and what they all want. Maybe. Or maybe they simply know from reading, studying and application of such knowledge? Not every man accepts being treated like a doormat regardless of how commonplace this is these days. Edited July 25, 2020 by matter2003 1
muppy Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 @matter2003 Healthy relationships are based on equality and respect while abusive ones are based on power and control. The sex of the person/abuser to me is irrelevant. Its a relational curse that as has been mentioned can begin gradually and escalate or have been the pattern they saw while growing up and they act what they know and have seen. You being less tolerant of your partners alleged disrespect sounds great in theory and healthy boundaries and what conduct you personally will accept or not accept is your perogative. But especially when children are involved i'd try to be a bit less judgmental and know this issue isn't as cut and dried as "respect" or "disrespect". If you dont have the emotive skills to handle anger and frustration and the need to control doesn't mean they disrespect their partner necessairily . Could it be they simply respect their own opinions and judgments More and retaliate when it appears the partner won't go along with the program? Power and control is the key IMO and not "respect" 1
Coach Tuesday Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 31 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Brother incels don't talk like that. They rant and rave and cry and scream about how women are garbage and how they can't get one. Maybe. Or maybe they simply know from reading, studying and application of such knowledge? Not every man accepts being treated like a doormat regardless of how commonplace this is these days. Please, Don Juan, show us these learned texts you’re referring to.
Big Turk Posted July 25, 2020 Author Posted July 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Muppy said: @matter2003 Healthy relationships are based on equality and respect while abusive ones are based on power and control. The sex of the person/abuser to me is irrelevant. Its a relational curse that as has been mentioned can begin gradually and escalate or have been the pattern they saw while growing up and they act what they know and have seen. You being less tolerant of your partners alleged disrespect sounds great in theory and healthy boundaries and what conduct you personally will accept or not accept is your perogative. But especially when children are involved i'd try to be a bit less judgmental and know this issue isn't as cut and dried as "respect" or "disrespect". If you dont have the emotive skills to handle anger and frustration and the need to control doesn't mean they disrespect their partner necessairily . Could it be they simply respect their own opinions and judgments More and retaliate when it appears the partner won't go along with the program? Power and control is the key IMO and not "respect" Yes that is a very good point. In the end it comes down to power and control. A large part of the disrespect towards someone is because over time they have either knowingly or unknowingly given the power and control to the other person. In some ways, counterintuitively, the disrespect being shown is the other person's way of wanting them to do something that will take some of that power and control back from them to help put the relationship back in balance. Usually what happens is the exact opposite, which is the other person cedes more power and control which then turns into a vicious cycle.
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