Report: bills wanted to draft Wilson/Prescott

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Locomark said:

I didn’t read the comments because these QBs went in the 3 and 4 the rounds so if we really wanted them we would have pulled the trigger by the 2nd. 

 

They liked them as later round prospects.  At Wilson's height, and Prescott getting a DUI I believe just prior to the draft, it pushed them way down on most teams' boards.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They liked them as later round prospects.  At Wilson's height, and Prescott getting a DUI I believe just prior to the draft, it pushed them way down on most teams' boards.

 

I don't think the DUI had much impact on Dak's stock. Might have cost him half a round but he was always seen as an early day 3 guy. Teams just undervalued him IMO. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

 

Modrak said the same thing about Roethlisberger. 

 

At the end of the day he couldn't have wanted him too badly. 

 

 

On 7/22/2020 at 1:57 PM, Rochesterfan said:

I just do not think we would have gotten any where near the player Wilson became - even if we drafted him rather than Graham.  

 

Completely disagree. 

 

We would have a HOFer. 

 

He would have lifted the entire franchise. 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Straight Hucklebuck]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know whether Buddy Nix was squeezed out but the timing is off in respect to Ralph's death. Buddy stepped down after the 2013 draft and Ralph died in 2014. That wasn't a quote from Nix in the Athletic article it just read as a throwaway like from Graham. 

 

Nix certainly hired Whaley with the idea that Whaley would succeed him. The extent to which the timing was planned or brough forward I have no idea.

 

When I look back on the Nix era I see a football organisation that still hadn't made a commitment to winning or even understood fully what it took to make that commitment. The one thing I will give Buddy is he and Chan is the only GM-HC combo I have seen in my 18/19 years as a Bills fan except the current duo who were actually on the same page. They did not have the force of personality to turn Buffalo around and establish that culture and commitment to winning but they had a chance to win and in different circumstances could maybe have got it done in an organisation where the issues were less deep rooted. Whereas Marrone making enemies throughout the building and Whaley rowing with Rex.... those regimes never stood a chance. In order to win in the NFL you have to have everyone in the boat rowing in the same direction. 

 

Nix and Whaley are the end results of trusting 90+ year old Ralph Wilson to make football decisions into the 2000's. It's Promote from Within & Cash to Cap philosophy that sunk the Bills, compared to the rest of the league.  

 

After Donahoe, Wilson reached out to 80+ year old Marv Levy for advice on who to hire for GM. In the middle of that phonecall, he asked Marv Levy if he wanted to be the GM. 

 

Marv, was a disaster at GM. Hiring his buddy, Dick Jauron, and that went horribly. 

 

Marv stepped down, and with no GM in place, Russ Brandon took over. He immediately traded Jason Peters. 

 

Tom Modrak was still leading the College Scouting efforts into the 2010 Draft. 

 

Ralph and Russ "scanned a list of names" for the next GM, "didn't know any of them", and narrowed the search to "two in-house candidates" - John Guy (Jauron era) and Buddy Nix who was 70 years old. That was the plan. Look down the hallway for your answer because Bill Polian worked 40 years ago. 

 

Buddy Nix, who said he was asleep at midnight when FA opened was your GM and orchestrated the worst offseason I have ever seen in 2010, by extending Chris Kelsay, hiring Chan Gailey who was out of football, converting the 4-3 defense to the 3-4 which was a disaster, having the worst draft I've ever seen, and trading Marshawn Lynch for nothing. 

 

Nix, hired Doug Whaley, and he proved to be a disaster too. "Humans aren't supposed to play football". 

 

The residue of Brandon was felt into the Marrone hire, "no stone unturned search" that lasted 5-days in Arizona. 

 

The Bills were a complete rinky-dink organization. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck

[DrDawkinstein]

20 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Modrak said the same thing about Roethlisberger. 

 

At the end of the day he couldn't have wanted him too badly.

 

 

The Bills had a deal all but done with the Texans to move up and get Ben, but Texans backed out at the last minute to secure the DB they wanted, and no reasonable offer the Bills made was going to be accepted. I think in hindsight, and seeing the trades made for QBs in years after that, they sweeten that deal to make it impossible to refuse. But it wasnt for lack of trying.

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I was so mad watching the Russel Wilson draft live... Buffalo traded up for what I was certain had to be Wilson. Seemed like fate, owner R Wilson, future of the franchise R Wilson... then they announced the pick was TJ Graham and my head exploded.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Dr.Mantis_Toboggan

[JohnNord]

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Completely disagree.
 1) Tyrod was essentially Alex Smith.  
2) Mahomes is special.  He had over 50 tds his last year in college.  Allen wasn’t close to his level in a worse conference.  Mahomes would have been great anywhere and in Buffalo, he would have played with an elite defense instead of one of the worst in KC.  

I still think if EJ could have had more of an Allen type mindset, he could have been a good QB.  He had every tool you wanted but played scared and like a robot.  

that’s a HUGE if.  Confidence was EJ’s biggest issue and he struggled with it big time.  It would be like saying if Josh Allen has better accuracy and touch he’d be Pat Mahomes.

Edited July 24, 2020 by JohnNord

[vincec]

7 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I remember screaming at my TV for the Bills to draft Wilson. I was pissed for years because the Bills didn’t draft Wilson. Prescott is a QB that I never wanted in the first place but has turned into a solid/good QB. It would be interesting to see what Prescott’s numbers would’ve looked like if he landed on the Jets. Cowboys have best O-Line, Best RB, Good WR’s and now Great. I feel like you could insert any of the top 18 QB’s as the Cowboys QB and they would put up similar or better numbers to Prescott.

Based on how the negotiations went, it seems like Jerry Jones feels the same way.

Edited July 24, 2020 by vincec

[blacklabel]

22 hours ago, JohnNord said:

It was flawed rationale but meet the Bills under the Nix/Whaley regime

 

Yeah, that's where I was going with it. I mean, it's not a bad idea to draft players from schools that are perennial winners, but to expect that those players will somehow create that winning culture when they arrive here was short-sighted. 

[Rochesterfan]

On 7/24/2020 at 6:59 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Completely disagree.
 1) Tyrod was essentially Alex Smith.  
2) Mahomes is special.  He had over 50 tds his last year in college.  Allen wasn’t close to his level in a worse conference.  Mahomes would have been great anywhere and in Buffalo, he would have played with an elite defense instead of one of the worst in KC.  

I still think if EJ could have had more of an Allen type mindset, he could have been a good QB.  He had every tool you wanted but played scared and like a robot.  

 

I hear what you are saying - I just do not believe it myself.  Alex Smith and Tyrod Taylor are not even close to equivalent.  The year Mahomes was drafted Alex Smith averaged over 100 yards more passing per game than TT.  He threw nearly 2x as many TDs and had a better TD to Int ratio.  Alex Smith was a legitimate ProBowl player that year (not the 6th alternate because everyone else dropped out).

 

Mahomes got to learn under an offensive wizard in Ried and got to watch a ProBowl level QB run the offense.  The Chiefs had also been building offense for years - so when Mahomes was ready to take over they had a superb offense ready to go and then Reid tweaked it to hit Mahomes strengths as a spread QB.

 

In Buffalo with a defensive Head Coach and a limited offense - he would have been asked to do so much less - plus he would have learned behind Taylor who was more of a free lancer on the field making film study harder.  
 

You also have to remember that Mahomes was no more highly touted than JA in the draft process - most thought he was the 2nd or 3rd best QB and a middle of the road prospect that was very raw and was not suited to an NFL style of play as a spread QB.  Many spread QBs have lead college football in passing yards/TDs etc. - few ever turned out as anything special.  
 

I think he went to the perfect team and at the perfect time and had Buffalo drafted him - we would be looking to move on/mid level contract extension because he would lack all of the support that made him great.  The offense might be better, but Mahomes gets away with a ton of throws because his WRs make plays for him.  The Bills WRs the last 3years have struggled to make routine catches - let alone bail out the QB by going up and making a spectacular catch on what should have been an INT.  
 

Maybe he would have been special/maybe not - very hard to know, but my belief is coaching and scheme matter in this league and if he had come to Buffalo - the coaching and the scheme would have held him back because that was not the type of team we were building.  Now could Bean have changed course for year 2 and pushed us forward - maybe, but there was still a discernible lack of talent on offense that needed to be addressed that would most likely have significantly dampened the numbers Mahomes put up.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Hindsight is not necessary for this whatsoever and plays no part in it, so you will find no safe harbor there.

 

...if as a front office person for the buffalo bills you felt that TJ Graham was not only better than Russell Wilson as a pro prospect, but that he was worth moving up in the third to get, then you should immediately proceed to punch yourself in the nuts as hard as you can until you lose consciousness.
 

...when you get done laughing because you think I am joking...I’m not, and you can start.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

19 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Hindsight is not necessary for this whatsoever and plays no part in it, so you will find no safe harbor there.

 

...if as a front office person for the buffalo bills you felt that TJ Graham was not only better than Russell Wilson as a pro prospect, but that he was worth moving up in the third to get, then you should immediately proceed to punch yourself in the nuts as hard as you can until you lose consciousness.
 

...when you get done laughing because you think I am joking...I’m not, and you can start.

So I’ll put you down as a ‘probably no’ on Mr. Graham’s birthday invite? I’ll hang up and listen. 

[SirAndrew]

23 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

I was so mad watching the Russel Wilson draft live... Buffalo traded up for what I was certain had to be Wilson. Seemed like fate, owner R Wilson, future of the franchise R Wilson... then they announced the pick was TJ Graham and my head exploded.

It’s amazing how poorly managed this franchise was for years, and I’m so glad the front office is finally competent. It’s one thing for fans to be unreasonably positive, but how could our management have ever considered guys like Losman, Edwards, and Fitzpatrick as long term solutions at the QB position ? No one in their right mind should have thought any of those were the answer after watching a full season of each.  I held the opinion at the time that we should have drafted QB’s more frequently during the mid rounds. This franchise spent years acting like they were all set at QB, until they were forced to draft one when each starter finally completely failed.

Edited July 25, 2020 by SirAndrew

[Alaska Darin]

You were willing to wait until round 4 for Russell Wilson, who was LIGHT YEARS ahead of EJ Manual, who should have been an undrafted FA.   How tall is Drew Brees?

 

Friggin' Buddy Nix.  It's a QB. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

It’s amazing how poorly managed this franchise was for years, and I’m so glad the front office is finally competent. It’s one thing for fans to be unreasonably positive, but how could our management have ever considered guys like Losman, Edwards, and Fitzpatrick as long term solutions at the QB position ? No one in their right mind should have thought any of those were the answer after watching a full season of each.  I held the opinion at the time that we should have drafted QB’s more frequently during the mid rounds. This franchise spent years acting like they were all set at QB, until they were forced to draft one when each starter finally completely failed.

Until Buddy Nix got caught by teenagers on a prank phone call ripping Fitzpatrick. 

[SirAndrew]

3 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Until Buddy Nix got caught by teenagers on a prank phone call ripping Fitzpatrick. 

That Fitz contract was one of the more ridiculous moves I’ve seen made by a front office. There was no need to make that move in the middle of the season, with a guy who had yet to prove he could get it done consistently. 

[PetermansRedemption]

The thing is, how in the hell are you an NFL GM and make this mistake? If this is true and your sold on Russel Wilson, you take a WR two picks before he ends up being drafted? QB’s are over drafted all the time. If you like one in the 3rd you better be prepared to take him in the 2nd. Horrific GM duties if this is true. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

The thing is, how in the hell are you an NFL GM and make this mistake? If this is true and your sold on Russel Wilson, you take a WR two picks before he ends up being drafted? QB’s are over drafted all the time. If you like one in the 3rd you better be prepared to take him in the 2nd. Horrific GM duties if this is true. 

 

He was part of a franchise that wasn't committed to winning and didn't understand what making that commitment took. It started at the top with an absentee owner. I am not saying the Bills were trying to lose. Clearly they weren't. But they lacked a long term understanding and vision of how they were going to win. That is how you end up with your GM thinking that getting a deep threat (which was a need) for his incumbent average Quarterback because it might add 1 win in that season is more important than drafting a guy you have identified as your Quarterback of the future. 

[RyanC883]

I find this nonsense.  We had the opportunity to get Winson, which we should have done, and took TJ Graham instead.  

[YoloinOhio]

I think Ciara slipped some Molly into his flinstones vitamins