C.Biscuit97 Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 15 hours ago, Klaista2k said: It's insane how much damage is being done over a political scam. Seems like some bad karma. 12 hours ago, njbuff said: Boo. Just tell everyone to wear a mask and get it over with. NFL games with no fans in the stands is like watching Godzilla without him using his atomic breath. Fans are overrated. A bunch of drunken idiots who act like morons (I include myself). I love football and couldn’t care less about no fans. Saves me a bunch of money and no I don’t have to feel bad when I buy a ticket and don’t go into the stadium.
ROCBillsBeliever Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 16 hours ago, KD in CA said: Once again, there will be no fans at any stadium this year. Except Gillette. The Pat****s have said they will allow fans. I trace that back to the fact that BelliCHEAT will do ANYTHING (including endangering the health of his zombie, fair-weather minions) to get a competitive advantage. Typical...
plenzmd1 Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Fans are overrated. Hey, i represent that remark..and maybe the first time i have ever been called overrated! 1
WhoTom Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Klaista2k said: The fake news media has a lot to do with hole thing. Endless lies and fear mongering. So it's easier to believe that millions of people, as well as all major news outlets, all over the globe (or disc, if you prefer) are conspiring on a global hoax that has devastating impacts on the world economy than it is to believe that one incompetent businessman, who's bankrupted six companies, screwed up and is now lying to cover his posterior. Occam's razor hasn't seen the strop in a while, I guess. 1 1
DrDawkinstein Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Watkins101 said: Before anyone misunderstands the intentions of this post, I want to state that I do not think the corona is a hoax, and that it is a serious problem. I do think the death numbers, at least in America are skewed. At least early on in the Corona crisis (I'm not sure about now, I haven't read much on it lately), the hospitals were getting the special corona funding based on the number of corona deaths there were. This incentivized hospitals to put corona as the cause of death when it wasn't necessarily the cause of death. I'm not saying they lied about patients having corona. If there is a cancer patient that dies, and also had corona, even though it was the cancer that killed them, the hospitals would be likely to put corona as the cause of death. Not attacking you in particular, but... Folks who keep spreading this rumor that hospitals were "incentivized" to put corona as cause of death need to start providing real links and sources. And do better than "my brother-in-law's neighbor's friend is a Doctor and he said..." Because the numbers and data do not justify that. If anything, looking at typical causes of death, it looks like Corona is being UNDER-counted. Quote Pneumonia kills about 50,000 people each year in the U.S., according to the CDC. This year, at least 89,555 deaths have been attributed nationwide to pneumonia between February and mid-May. It tends to follow a typical flu season, coming on in December and peaking in January and February before declining in March to April. But preliminary CDC data from this year show pneumonia deaths steadily climbed in March to peak in April, mirroring the trend line for deaths linked to the coronavirus outbreak. Surrounding states are also seeing death counts several times greater than normal: Indiana: 1,832 COVID-19 deaths; 2,149 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 384) Illinois: 4,856 COVID-19 deaths; 3,986 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 782) Tennessee: 336 COVID-19 deaths; 1,704 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 611) Ohio: 1,969 COVID-19 deaths; 2,327 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 820) Virginia: 1,208 COVID-19 deaths; 1,394 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 451) West Virginia: 72 COVID-19 deaths; 438 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 117) Source 1 Source 2 Source 3 Or look at total excess deaths: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm Under Dashboard select "Number of Excess Deaths" and then "All causes, excluding Covid-19". Across the US total excess deaths is 22000-43000. Let's say 30k. That means 30k more people are dying than we'd expect for this time period. If we assume all of those are unreported Covid cases (big assumption) then we're only reporting ~75% of total Covid deaths. There's this argument being pushed on social media that we're over-reporting deaths and it's not that bad. That's clearly not borne out by the data. We're probably under-reporting, and we may be under-reporting by a lot Edited July 22, 2020 by DrDawkinstein 2 1 2
DrDawkinstein Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Gene1973 said: I can certainly believe some, if not many, privatley run, for profit entities were falsely reporting COVID deaths for monetary gain. Also, something about the pneumonia numbers, one of my parents got it out of the blue, were strictly socially distancing as well. Maybe there is a connection we'll find via the data later on that the virus while not always producing symptoms in all who contract, can cause immune deficiencies leading to other ailments. And that is just Pneumonia Here's a chart comparing "Unknown" cause of death over the last 5 years: Here's a chart comparing "Natural Causes" cause of death over the last 5 years: Weird how so many more people are dying due to these causes this year, isnt it? Seems like we are over-reporting on almost every typical cause. Which would indicate under-reporting of Corona.
DrDawkinstein Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Gene1973 said: No, what I'm getting at is this pandemic is somehow increasing the chances of other ailments, due to how vastly things have changed socially. Maybe people in quarantine are dealing with increased stress, which leads to pneumonia etc. No doubt there is an overlap of incorrect reporting of corona vs other ailments, which way it goes, I don't know. But it makes sense to me, that if money is an incentive, corona would likely be over-reported as opposed to under-reported. That is an easy assumption to make and exactly why the rumor gets proliferated. But all the data shows the opposite. That other causes of death are up by 300-400%, which would indicate Corona is being vastly under-reported. The data is right there for your eyes to look at, whether you want to believe it or not. If anything, social distancing should REDUCE the pneumonia numbers as well. Edited July 22, 2020 by DrDawkinstein
plenzmd1 Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 52 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Not attacking you in particular, but... Folks who keep spreading this rumor that hospitals were "incentivized" to put corona as cause of death need to start providing real links and sources. And do better than "my brother-in-law's neighbor's friend is a Doctor and he said..." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/ 1
DrDawkinstein Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Gene1973 said: Possibly, but you seem to be ignoring that this unusual situation could be leading to an increase in other causes of death as opposed to just blatant egregious reporting. Truth as usual, is likely somewhere between. Even if it is "somewhere between" that means we're under-reporting by 25,000 instead of 50,000. Still not good. 8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/ Cool, so balance that out with the numbers on the other side, and we're still vastly under-reporting. edit: finally got past the paywall in an Incognito tab. That article references a rumor stated on the Laura Ingraham show about what hospitals MIGHT do to try to get more Federal funding. It doesnt say they are. We all understand the concept of why they might, and that it is a conservative talking point. Quote There have been no public reports that hospitals are exaggerating COVID-19 numbers to receive higher Medicare payments. Jensen didn't explicitly make that claim. He simply suggested there is an "avenue" to do so now that "plausible" COVID-19, not just laboratory-confirmed, cases can be greenlighted for Medicare payment and eligible for the 20% add-on allowed under the relief act. Edited July 22, 2020 by DrDawkinstein
Mark Vader Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Seems like some bad karma. Fans are overrated. A bunch of drunken idiots who act like morons (I include myself). I love football and couldn’t care less about no fans. Saves me a bunch of money and no I don’t have to feel bad when I buy a ticket and don’t go into the stadium. Speak for yourself. I enjoy going to games, because I love football, and it's a fun time.
DrDawkinstein Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gene1973 said: I'm just wondering where the incentives are for hospitals to under report. Seems to me, over reporting potentially affords them more in the way of increased resource allocation. You are free to believe the conspiracy theory over the hard data. It's what makes this country so... "great". I mean, look at how great it's going currently. 1
plenzmd1 Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Even if it is "somewhere between" that means we're under-reporting by 25,000 instead of 50,000. Still not good. Cool, so balance that out with the numbers on the other side, and we're still vastly under-reporting. edit: finally got past the paywall in an Incognito tab. That article references a rumor stated on the Laura Ingraham show about what hospitals MIGHT do to try to get more Federal funding. It doesnt say they are. We all understand the concept of why they might, and that it is a conservative talking point. this article was from either early May or late April. As it points out, there is a substantial difference in reimbursement rate for covid vs non-covid cases . No claim in article or by me if hospitals were indeed fudging the numbers..
YoloinOhio Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 18 hours ago, KD in CA said: Once again, there will be no fans at any stadium this year. The South to the rescue
DrDawkinstein Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: The South to the rescue They can do that since Georgia is handling COVID so well. https://www.wjcl.com/article/cases-deaths-rising-in-georgia-state-sees-its-2nd-deadliest-day-since-pandemic-began/33390530 1
DrDawkinstein Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, Gene1973 said: I say good for them! Dictatorships like we have here in NY are not fun. Yeah, who needs real leadership with low case and death numbers which will lead to a faster re-opening? We're good with just letting people needlessly die here in GA! Lockdown to 2022! 1
Klaista2k Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, WhoTom said: So it's easier to believe that millions of people, as well as all major news outlets, all over the globe (or disc, if you prefer) are conspiring on a global hoax that has devastating impacts on the world economy than it is to believe that one incompetent businessman, who's bankrupted six companies, screwed up and is now lying to cover his posterior. Occam's razor hasn't seen the strop in a while, I guess. You realize all major media is controlled right? When you have control of the media a hoax like this becomes a lot easier to pull off. 9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I always love when conspiracy theorists call out fake news. Yeah let's all just go along and believe whatever the hell the news tells us. Edited July 22, 2020 by Klaista2k
Klaista2k Posted July 22, 2020 Posted July 22, 2020 8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I’m sure people in Italy religiously follow what CNN says. What about Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc? They are reporting very low numbers.
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