Jauronimo Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Who will he be fooling with this? He wants people to give him money to buy distressed fossil fuel producers----and he is a guy who OWNS such a company! His own gas drilling company stopped drilling months ago! Maybe he will make the investors buy his boutique drilling company out of its current problems? Ironically, as the article mentions, his former fracking holdings he sold to Shell were just resold for essentially pennies on the dollar. Natural gas prices have been dropping for 5 years. What savvy investor is going to play the energy market by dropping money on this kind of proposition? There's far better ways to make money trading commodities--even in the energy sector. This seems weird. This is going to be some investors prospectus! In order to be distressed you need to have debt and Pegula's energy businesses are debt free according to a number of interviews. A number of shale producers are distressed and will go under, but JKLM isn't likely to be one of them. Natural gas will have its place in the energy market for years to come even in a renewables based energy world. Its clean burning and suitable for satisfying surge demand for electricity which renewables cannot address. There is one startup company in the transportation space introducing natural gas powered drive trains for class 8 vehicles. But the biggest demand driver for natural gas will be the petrochem market. As it is pretty much all growth in demand for oil and gas has been from the petrochem market. Edited July 21, 2020 by Jauronimo 3 1 1
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: 'when all the world goes one way, I go another' Are you freakin' kidding me? The mainstream of the Democratic party today looks like Eisenhower Republicans. They have their left-leaning side - AOC, Saunders - but they aren't the bulk of the party by a long shot and in Saunders case, only reluctantly part of it. If that were true, Saunders would not have come so close to winning the nomination... I think that when you command more than 25% of the Democratic vote, we are talking about more than just a "side." Don't get me a wrong, there is a deep and nuanced discussion to be had about the topic, and this is not the place for it. That said, I don't think there is a serious argument to be made that today's Democrats are closer to the Eisenhower Republicans than the Democratic Party I describe as the farthest left it has ever been. 1
Jauronimo Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 27 minutes ago, TBBills said: It's a resource that has a limited quantity it will always go back up. Just like coal? 2
TheFunPolice Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 oh, and for those who thought the Pegulas were broke.... Terry Pegula is the 8th richest owner in the NFL, right behind Robert Kraft and Arthur Blank. Terry has plenty of $$. He sold his company for 4.8 billion in cash. The Bills cost 1.4 billion and the Sabres for 189 million (.180 billion). Both were cash purchases. Zero debt. Add those up and he purchased both teams and still had 3.2 billion in cash left over just from the sale to Shell. That's also assuming he didn't have a dime other than that one sale, which is incorrect. In short, he has plenty of money. All the talk of the Sabres losing $$ is probably because guys with lots of money don't enjoy losing 10+ million a year on anything, regardless of their ability to absorb it.
WhoTom Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: But the Pegulas are making a longer term investment, in a political climate that does not look good for natural gas. I guess that's where we disagree. I don't think it's a long-term investment.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Limeaid said: That is extreme exaggeration like saying the Republican party has become the American Nazi party due inclination of some of their party against any non-white people. Keep this in PPP. Oh and for facts Natural Gas is not only used in energy but many products. If other forms of energy replace natural gas then natural gas extractors will still have customers. I disagree. Calling the Republicans Nazis = calling the Democrats Communists. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that the Democrat Party is farther left than it has been in its history. There is not a credible argument that this is not true. Heck, ten years ago the Democratic Party didn't support gay marriage and, before that, they helped pass criminal justice reform. Edited July 21, 2020 by JoshAllenHasBigHands
Mr. WEO Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, MJS said: You must be a billionaire. LOL--I wish! My money is too precious to me to dump into this scheme. If I want to trade in the energy sector, I'll go with ETF's. No billionaires, besides the Pegula's, will be involved with this. It's interesting that he and his wife will own 20% of the company but I don't see where it says what they will be investing personally. 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: In order to be distressed you need to have debt and Pegula's energy businesses are debt free according to a number of interviews. It's a natural gas company that produces no natural gas. It has ongoing costs, so he's burning cash on it? At some point its has to borrow to stay an "ongoing concern", I would think.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I disagree. Calling the Republicans Nazis = calling the Democrats Communists. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that the Democrats are farther left than it has been in its history. There is not a credible argument that this is not true. Heck, ten years ago the Democratic Party didn't support gay marriage and, before that, they helped pass criminal justice reform. Further discussion on this point -> PPP please. One round and one response enough here. Thanks.
WhoTom Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Don't get me a wrong, there is a deep and nuanced discussion to be had about the topic, and this is not the place for it. That said, I don't think there is a serious argument to be made that today's Democrats are closer to the Eisenhower Republicans than the Democratic Party I describe as the farthest left it has ever been. If the first Democratic administration you lived through was Bill Clinton's, then I can see your point, but that's not very far back in history. 4
Mr. WEO Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: bulk of the party by a long shot and in Saunders case, only reluctantly part of it. 6 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: If that were true, Saunders would not have come so close to winning the nomination... Saunders never had a chance at being nominated.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Further discussion on this point -> PPP please. One round and one response enough here. Thanks. I have no idea what PPP means. 3 minutes ago, WhoTom said: If the first Democratic administration you lived through was Bill Clinton's, then I can see your point, but that's not very far back in history. I am blown away that any one would consider my statement at all debatable. I've literally never seen anyone suggest it was anything but a given. 1
WhoTom Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I have no idea what PPP means. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/forum/14-politics-polls-and-pundits/
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 1 minute ago, WhoTom said: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/forum/14-politics-polls-and-pundits/ That is wild that this forum has a "politics, polls, and pundits" section. That said, separating subjects into different sections is wildly unnecessary.
Buffalo716 Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: That is wild that this forum has a "politics, polls, and pundits" section. That said, separating subjects into different sections is wildly unnecessary. It actually makes sense Because 85% of threads get turned into political arguments So we need to keep him off the main board 1
MJS Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: LOL--I wish! My money is too precious to me to dump into this scheme. If I want to trade in the energy sector, I'll go with ETF's. No billionaires, besides the Pegula's, will be involved with this. It's interesting that he and his wife will own 20% of the company but I don't see where it says what they will be investing personally. It's a natural gas company that produces no natural gas. It has ongoing costs, so he's burning cash on it? At some point its has to borrow to stay an "ongoing concern", I would think. Oh, you aren't a billionaire? I guess it doesn't make sense for a Joe Schmo to be criticizing a billionaire on his business and money making practices. 1
Mr. WEO Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: In order to be distressed you need to have debt and Pegula's energy businesses are debt free according to a number of interviews. A number of shale producers are distressed and will go under, but JKLM isn't likely to be one of them. Natural gas will have its place in the energy market for years to come even in a renewables based energy world. Its clean burning and suitable for satisfying surge demand for electricity which renewables cannot address. There is one startup company in the transportation space introducing natural gas powered drive trains for class 8 vehicles. But the biggest demand driver for natural gas will be the petrochem market. As it is pretty much all growth in demand for oil and gas has been from the petrochem market. Isn't Tesla working on class 8 vehicles?
Don Otreply Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 Buy low sell high..., that ain’t workin, that’s the way to do it, money for nothing... My boy is wicked smart.... 1
Jauronimo Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Isn't Tesla working on class 8 vehicles? Tesla, Nikola, Daimler, a few others. Check out Hyliion which will likely be bought by the special purpose acquisition company or SPAC going by the ticker SHLL. https://www.hyliion.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Hyliion-Tortoise-Overview-Presentation.pdf https://www.hyliion.com/ Natural gas powered generator powers an electric drive train. Hydrogen fuel cells and batteries have a long way to go to catch up on range, towing capacity, and cost. I'm sure the tech will get there but for now I like Hyliion's business plan and took a flier on some shares of SHLL.
RoyBatty is alive Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Natural gas has been in steady decline since January 2019, when the economy was quite healthy. Absent seasonal factors, Natural gas has been on a secular slide for years. 2
Mr. WEO Posted July 21, 2020 Posted July 21, 2020 Just now, MJS said: Oh, you aren't a billionaire? I guess it doesn't make sense for a Joe Schmo to be criticizing a billionaire on his business and money making practices. Oh that's RIGHT! Everyone who writes about, trades is, researches, forecasts energy futures is a billionaire! The rest of us cannot hope to comprehend these things! Maybe I should consider this unique investment opportunity. But before I do, you are correct---I should consult a billionaire. Kylie Jenner is just the person I need to pick the mind of before taking this leap into a depressed asset company run by the folks at PSE--who have recently announced they are very focused new "goals" keeping their business "viable"...AND "sustainable". If they had investors, those would be magic words to start a new round of money raising!
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