NFL Players Staging Revolt

[Pokebball]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Herd immunity is a pipe dream at this point. We dont even know if it's really possible, and considering we're starting to see people re-diagnosed after their first recovery, it may not ever be until there is a vaccine. (edit: I was just pulling up my sources from the re-diagnoses story from this weekend, and it looks like they are now saying it's merely remnants from the first infection, so maybe there is some hope)

 

I'm simply talking about getting a handle on the virus. Italy, Germany, Spain all did it and they have soccer back. South Korea has baseball back. New Zealand has Rugby back. They were all able to drive down the daily new case numbers to a point where re-opening made sense and wasn't a major risk. New York state has managed to match the curves of those countries, but plenty of others like here in Georgia are seeing the exact opposite. Video footage from this weekend shows downtown Nashville as packed and roaring as ever with not a mask in sight. So we choose our choices and get what we deserve.

 

Let's be careful putting the period behind these efforts from Italy, German, Saping, New York, South Korea, etc.  Until we find a good vaccine or develop herd immunity, this disease is going to cycle in and out or our communities.  Our treatment of the disease continues to get better.  It's target is clearly the elderly with over 90% of deaths in people 55 and older and darn near 80% of deaths in people 65 and older.

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Let's be careful putting the period behind these efforts from Italy, German, Saping, New York, South Korea, etc.  Until we find a good vaccine or develop herd immunity, this disease is going to cycle in and out or our communities.  Our treatment of the disease continues to get better.  It's target is clearly the elderly with over 90% of deaths in people 55 and older and darn near 80% of deaths in people 65 and older.

 

Absolutely. It is no where near over. In a subsequent post I noted the spike that Spain is currently seeing this past week. The common sense practices have to keep going in order to keep a grip on it.

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

1.  Just because you suspect something, it doesn't make it fact either.  And as I said, if a player has been living in a a bubble, he isn't the one who will have a problem with living in another one.  It's the ones who weren't that likely will.  

 

2.  Yes, this is all about those who won't because they all can.  Which makes it even more incumbent upon players to police others who are breaking the rules.  

I’m it the one who made the statement of fact.  That was you.  As in, no NFL player is living in a bubble.  And, with respect, you’re totally wrong about the policing point.  It’s not the job of the employee to police his fellow employee.  It’s the employers responsibility.   I don’t blame the players one bit for demanding daily testing and workplace protections.  Neither should you. 

[machine gun kelly]

And poke all, how about referees, coaches, trainers, and on and on who are over 55?  I’m not saying we don’t have a season, but stop with the everything is fine thing.  It’s not fine.  If you didn’t infer this point, I apologize.  The one thing is yes, more people at risk are likely targets, but players well like O Lineman who have some BMI’s over 30 and high BP are at risk.

 

With that said, the regular Joe also faces risk so it’s their call.  Work, get paid, don’t work, don’t get paid.  Pretty damn simple.  No corporate welfare, and if they choose to practice and play, just be freakin smart ( using my previous example, unlike young guys at my gym and gals who don’t even come close to practicing social distancing or masks ) and have you’re family and you practice the CDC guidelines.  I’m one of the only guys at my gym that wears gloves.  A number of people wear masks, but given the sweat, mist from you’re breath, etc., just be careful.  No problem about living you’re life, just be smart.

 

If players are really smart about their safety, they would wear these new masks, Id wear underarmour shirts to keep sweat off me, and all of the other things we know.  The league should have extra time between plays to let young guys run out and let players towel off with sanitized towels, and so on.  Have a season, but everyone do everything they can to be safe.  If players are worried about health issues, get you’re groceries delivered, and don’t unnecessarily go in public or parties.  Of course, they will do none of that and want to be paid to do nothing.

 

I absolutely love football, but give me a break on both sides of ownership and players with the hypocracy. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Everyone dropped the ball on the marketing and revenue money that could have been generated with masks. Trump could have been making a KILLING selling #KAG masks this whole time.

 

My wife got multiple styles of Bills masks for me and our son. She was doing her part! 

 

You’re right, there were so many opportunities to do things better. I swear if they had scared people in these parts with the idea of losing college football, as you mentioned, it would have moved the needle to some degree. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 7/19/2020 at 1:52 PM, DCbillsfan said:

Like everyone else, I want to see NFL football.  I've tried to remain positive all this time but 4 months into this virus - it doesn't look good.  The NFL and NFLPA had all this time to work on safety protocols and procedures.  I find them both at fault.  If some players don't want to play - I don't blame them.  Maybe there won't be football this season.  I find myself becoming less interested in football with each passing day.  My two cents JMO

  The pandemonium about the rise in Covid cases is just absurd.  My three kids and ex wife have all probably gotten it in the past 4-5 weeks.  And the worst was my older son (college football player) who had stomach flu for 3 days.  My daughter (young adult) felt tired, and my younger son (17) had a 100 degree fever for about a day and a half.  My ex wife had a cold for a week.  It took her at least 8 days to get her test results, and by that point she was absolutely fine.  Most of the people who get the virus have mild symptoms to no symptoms.  The death rate for healthy people in general and those under 55 is very very low.  So I am not even sure why the players are that scared of even getting the virus.  Its not going away anytime soon.  And we just need to deal with it on an individual level as best we can.  The NFL players are young and healthy.  If they are that afraid, then don't play.  But why should they get paid?  The fear and overreaction that has enveloped a good portion of society (including many on this message board) is staggering.  Its like most adults have never dealt with tough times struggles or hardship in their life.  I see all of that every day in my business for the past 30 years.  Unless the death rate starts approaching levels last seen during the Black Plague of the middle ages, (a little hyperbole to make a point)  I do not see any reason to get overly alarmed .  And I sure hope the NFL players feel the same way. 

 

Hey Nascar keeps rolling.  And they actually had a decent amount of fans at the race in Ft Worth yesterday.  I suggest you all start following it.  It is that exciting.  And this is coming from a huge football fan for over 4 decades.  Now I just hope I can have both!!

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

MLS just tested again with zero new positives.  

 

The bubble seems to be working, fwiw

Hockey as well. NHL reported today 2 positive tests out of 2618 tests on 800 players in their phase 3 of return to play TC.

 

multiple college football programs have reported few or zero positive tests in their current stage of workouts. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[North Buffalo]

Dumb question, what do the new masks look like... are they like full hockey shields?  Just havent seen them.

 

Based on concepts probably gonna need some cloth filters over cut out openings in the shields and maybe put some cut outs up near top of shield imo to lessen droplet exposure

Edited July 20, 2020 by North Buffalo

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hockey as well. NHL reported today 2 positive tests out of 2618 tests on 800 players in their phase 3 of return to play TC.

 

multiple college football programs have reported few or zero positive tests in their current stage of workouts. 

 

Yeah, Univ of Hawaii just proudly proclaimed they had no positive tests, and the players immediately re-tweeted saying NONE of them had been tested yet! So I guess that's something?

 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I’m it the one who made the statement of fact.  That was you.  As in, no NFL player is living in a bubble.  And, with respect, you’re totally wrong about the policing point.  It’s not the job of the employee to police his fellow employee.  It’s the employers responsibility.   I don’t blame the players one bit for demanding daily testing and workplace protections.  Neither should you. 

 

So then, tell me which players are in bubbles.  Meaning one like the NBA has set up or the NFL proposed?  I'll wait.

 

And wrong on the policing.  It's everyone's responsibility.  If an employee sees another employee is doing something harmful, it should be taken up with the employee or brought to the attention of the employer.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, Univ of Hawaii just proudly proclaimed they had no positive tests, and the players immediately re-tweeted saying NONE of them had been tested yet! So I guess that's something?

 

I didn’t see anything about Hawaii but then again I never do 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I didn’t see anything about Hawaii but then again I never do 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

 

Weird. 

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

 

I mean I guess the first statement isn't wrong ?‍♂️

[SectionC3]

17 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So then, tell me which players are in bubbles.  Meaning one like the NBA has set up or the NFL proposed?  I'll wait.

 

And wrong on the policing.  It's everyone's responsibility.  If an employee sees another employee is doing something harmful, it should be taken up with the employee or brought to the attention of the employer.

 

again, you said NO players are bubbling.  I pointed our that you have no factual basis for that statement and that you’re talking out of your fear.   The burden isn’t on me to disprove your baseless assertion.  
 

and youre still wrong on policing.  Let me know how a team in orchard park is supposed to self-police a team based in Santa Clara.  It’s impossible.  And absurd to suggest.  It’s the job of the owners to provide daily testing and adequate safety measures. 

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

again, you said NO players are bubbling.  I pointed our that you have no factual basis for that statement and that you’re talking out of your fear.   The burden isn’t on me to disprove your baseless assertion.  
 

and youre still wrong on policing.  Let me know how a team in orchard park is supposed to self-police a team based in Santa Clara.  It’s impossible.  And absurd to suggest.  It’s the job of the owners to provide daily testing and adequate safety measures. 

 

You challenged my assertion so it's you who needs to prove me wrong.  What player is bubbling a la the NBA or how the NFL proposed?  The answer is: there is none.  They might have socially distanced and followed guidelines like others did, but that's not "bubbling."

 

And who said anything about players from one team policing players from another team?  I'm talking about within teams.

[CSBill]

50 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

And poke all, how about referees, coaches, trainers, and on and on who are over 55?  I’m not saying we don’t have a season, but stop with the everything is fine thing.  It’s not fine.  If you didn’t infer this point, I apologize.  The one thing is yes, more people at risk are likely targets, but players well like O Lineman who have some BMI’s over 30 and high BP are at risk.

 

With that said, the regular Joe also faces risk so it’s their call.  Work, get paid, don’t work, don’t get paid.  Pretty damn simple.  No corporate welfare, and if they choose to practice and play, just be freakin smart ( using my previous example, unlike young guys at my gym and gals who don’t even come close to practicing social distancing or masks ) and have you’re family and you practice the CDC guidelines.  I’m one of the only guys at my gym that wears gloves.  A number of people wear masks, but given the sweat, mist from you’re breath, etc., just be careful.  No problem about living you’re life, just be smart.

 

If players are really smart about their safety, they would wear these new masks, Id wear underarmour shirts to keep sweat off me, and all of the other things we know.  The league should have extra time between plays to let young guys run out and let players towel off with sanitized towels, and so on.  Have a season, but everyone do everything they can to be safe.  If players are worried about health issues, get you’re groceries delivered, and don’t unnecessarily go in public or parties.  Of course, they will do none of that and want to be paid to do nothing.

 

I absolutely love football, but give me a break on both sides of ownership and players with the hypocracy. 

 

I'm with you MGK. It is doable, but it has to be different. I spent the morning reducing the size of the classroom (to half) in the school where I teach. It will be different, but doable. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, MR8 said:

 

The Concern about "Herd Immunity" is you need a vaccine for it.  Too many people are contracting Covid and having it be very mild... many don't even know they have/had it, and others don't have serious symptoms at all.  These cases are what has pushed the narrative that it's no big deal, however in Sweeden (a country that didn't shut down at all) they're finding despite an explosion in cases, there is an VERY small population who actually have the anti-bodies.  What that means is if you have Covid-19 and its very mild your body never really fights to create strong enough anti-bodies for them to be retained in your body's Rolodex of anti-bodies to fight it in the future. 

 

I don't think it's at all what this means, for reasons that are explained (with references and stuff) in the covid-19 facts thread, and which (after a pit-stop at the facts thread) I'd be happy to see discussed in the OTW discussion thread.

 

You don't need a vaccine for herd immunity, but depending upon Ro you do need 60-70% of the population to have contracted the disease, and we are only apparently approaching that in specific, very hard hit communities within very hard hit cities like NYC.

[SectionC3]

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You challenged my assertion so it's you who needs to prove me wrong.  What player is bubbling a la the NBA or how the NFL proposed?  The answer is: there is none.  They might have socially distanced and followed guidelines like others did, but that's not "bubbling."

 

And who said anything about players from one team policing players from another team?  I'm talking about within teams.

 

1.  You made a mistake in your first sentence.  You should have said "groundless," "baseless," "entirely contrived," or something like that.  

 

2.  You don't know who is and who is not bubbling.  You're just speculating.  Or making it up.  Guys with kids might not be out much.

 

3.  You didn't say within teams earlier.  And that's sort of the point.  The Bills can police the Bills.  Maybe.  But they can't fire anyone who doesn't respect social and health norms.  Only the employer can do that.  And they also have to come into close contact with players on 12 other NFL teams this year, some of which may not self-police and some of which might have a bunch of knuckleheads who think that they're fine if they chew on some hydroxycloroquine each morning with their Flintstones vitamins.  The only ones who can police the "other" teams are the owners.  And how is "our" team or "my" team kept safe in this scenario?  Daily testing.  Employer-mandated, stringent safety measures.  Nothing less.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

  The pandemonium about the rise in Covid cases is just absurd.  My three kids and ex wife have all probably gotten it in the past 4-5 weeks.  And the worst was my older son (college football player) who had stomach flu for 3 days.  My daughter (young adult) felt tired, and my younger son (17) had a 100 degree fever for about a day and a half.  My ex wife had a cold for a week.  It took her at least 8 days to get her test results, and by that point she was absolutely fine.  Most of the people who get the virus have mild symptoms to no symptoms.  The death rate for healthy people in general and those under 55 is very very low.  So I am not even sure why the players are that scared of even getting the virus.  Its not going away anytime soon.  And we just need to deal with it on an individual level as best we can.  The NFL players are young and healthy.  If they are that afraid, then don't play.  But why should they get paid?  The fear and overreaction that has enveloped a good portion of society (including many on this message board) is staggering.  Its like most adults have never dealt with tough times struggles or hardship in their life.  I see all of that every day in my business for the past 30 years.  Unless the death rate starts approaching levels last seen during the Black Plague of the middle ages, (a little hyperbole to make a point)  I do not see any reason to get overly alarmed .  And I sure hope the NFL players feel the same way.  (But I guess its just not politically correct to be calm and disagree about anything that the liberal mob thinks is going to lead to the End of Days in our society)

 

Hey Nascar keeps rolling.  And they actually had a decent amount of fans at the race in Ft Worth yesterday.  I suggest you all start following it.  It is that exciting.  And this is coming from a huge football fan for over 4 decades.  Now I just hope I can have both!!

 

I think some of the players, especially the older "star" players, are worried about effects like this, from rowing World Champion and Olympic medalist Emily Regan.

The point that gets missed, Over and Over and Over again - the impact of this disease is far more than mortality.  It's how many people have mild disease, but become ill enough to feel an impact (and elite athletes feel impact at a point where Joe and Jill Jones from Johnstown don't).  

 

I could be wrong, but I think some of the things they're worried about are, if they play and contract covid-19, arguably (but not proveably) at a team facility or from football-related activities, how will the team handle it for various player contracts and various points in the season.  Key points that might be in contention:

-Will players who participate, take all mandated precautions, and contract covid-19 be treated as injured (pay) or as NFI, non football injury (no pay)?

-For UDFA and UFA trying to make the team, will they get a salary for the season?  Will they get an injury settlement, and if so for how long?  Or will they just be paid for camp?

-What about if they suffer lasting (measurable) impact?

That kind of thing.

 

I'm not going to go into the "Black Plague" toughen-up-you-weanies-140k deaths-is-nuttin' silliness here.  You can wander over to the covid-19 discussion threads and I'll be happy to entertain your enlivening thoughts on the subject with some math and facts.

 

2 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Dumb question, what do the new masks look like... are they like full hockey shields?  Just havent seen them.

 

Based on concepts probably gonna need some cloth filters over cut out openings in the shields and maybe put some cut outs up near top of shield imo to lessen droplet exposure

 

The scheme I've seen is actually a clever piece of technology.  It's holes in a plastic shield, but they're offset so as to prevent expulsion of particles.
You wouldn't think it would work, but it's actually quite clever.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29454756/nfl-unveils-oakley-mouth-shield-combat-coronavirus