NFL Players Staging Revolt

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, MJS said:

Actually, flattening the curve prolongs the timeframe of the disease because herd immunity is never achieved. The reasons for flattening the curve are to ensure that the hospitals are not over burdened. But it causes the disease to last for much longer.

 

 

Herd immunity is a pipe dream at this point. We dont even know if it's really possible, and considering we're starting to see people re-diagnosed after their first recovery, it may not ever be until there is a vaccine. (edit: I was just pulling up my sources from the re-diagnoses story from this weekend, and it looks like they are now saying it's merely remnants from the first infection, so maybe there is some hope)

 

I'm simply talking about getting a handle on the virus. Italy, Germany, Spain all did it and they have soccer back. South Korea has baseball back. New Zealand has Rugby back. They were all able to drive down the daily new case numbers to a point where re-opening made sense and wasn't a major risk. New York state has managed to match the curves of those countries, but plenty of others like here in Georgia are seeing the exact opposite. Video footage from this weekend shows downtown Nashville as packed and roaring as ever with not a mask in sight. So we choose our choices and get what we deserve.

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[YoloinOhio]

29 minutes ago, Antonio said:

Can somebody tell me what happens to contracts if there is no season?

 

If someone was in the last year of his contract, are they FAs next season? 

This has not been reported because the league is planning on having a season and has not waivered on that to the point that would be a discussion point at least publically. What has been reported is if a player chooses to opt out of the season (they have until 8/1), their contract does not toll and if they are in the last year they would not be an FA next season. 

[KD in CA]

12 hours ago, Mango said:

This isn’t comparable to most of our situations. 95% of us are pushing product in some way. Whether it’s sales, writing code, cooking food, working at 7 11,we are just part of the supply chain in some way. 

 

NFL players ARE the product, so thoughts on “choosing” to work is drastically different than most of our experiences.

 

Nonsense.  They are interchangeable cogs who have someone else signing their paycheck like everyone else.

 

[RiotAct]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

This has not been reported because the league is planning on having a season and has not waivered on that to the point that would be a discussion point at least publically. What has been reported is if a player chooses to opt out of the season (they have until 8/1), their contract does not toll and if they are in the last year they would not be an FA next season. 

uh oh, someone better wake up Roger and tell him the bad news...

[MJS]

27 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Herd immunity is a pipe dream at this point. We dont even know if it's really possible, and considering we're starting to see people re-diagnosed after their first recovery, it may not ever be until there is a vaccine. (edit: I was just pulling up my sources from the re-diagnoses story from this weekend, and it looks like they are now saying it's merely remnants from the first infection, so maybe there is some hope)

 

I'm simply talking about getting a handle on the virus. Italy, Germany, Spain all did it and they have soccer back. South Korea has baseball back. New Zealand has Rugby back. They were all able to drive down the daily new case numbers to a point where re-opening made sense and wasn't a major risk. New York state has managed to match the curves of those countries, but plenty of others like here in Georgia are seeing the exact opposite. Video footage from this weekend shows downtown Nashville as packed and roaring as ever with not a mask in sight. So we choose our choices and get what we deserve.

 

New York got slammed and built up some immunity. Italy and Spain have the same story. Germany appears to have not gotten it that bad. Maybe they were just lucky.

 

But this is how it works. Flattening the curve always prolongs the disease. Not saying that's bad. Just how it is:

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/Ase2hEaVrUyDPuMW8

Edited July 20, 2020 by MJS

[machine gun kelly]

I laughed when read the comment the same people who are whining about safety, are the same people who haven’t worn masks, socially distanced, went to parties and so on.  I’ve said a bunch of times, young people (and I’m not old, just not young and dumb) are making this situation worse.  I want to believe my kids are smart about this stuff, but I can’t watch them all the time.

 

Anyway, I sound like my father with “those damn kids routine”, but in this situation it fits.

[Gordio]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

UGA alone might have challenged Harvards endowment size if they sold commemorative  UGA face masks and begged fans to wear them so we could have football on schedule! 

 

 

I saw a guy wear a mask at Wegmans the other day that said "this mask is as useless as our governor"  I thought that was pretty good.

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

New York got slammed and built up some immunity. Italy and Spain have the same story. Germany appears to have not gotten it that bad. Maybe they were just lucky.

 

It wasnt all immunity, I'd argue that had the least to do with it, it was following (or enforcing) the common sense rules.

Germany, Italy, and Spain were all hit just as hard as each other. And they could see it come back at any time (notice that bump Spain is seeing). But the common sense practices are helping keep it down.

 

New York:

 

WOMP WOMP

 

 

 

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Ironically, many of those that are going to be the most vocally angry about the NFL having to cancel its seasons are the very people who helped put is into this situation to begin with by refusing to listen to common sense and science.

You want football? Wear a mask. It's that simple. It's BEEN that simple from the start, but too many people just can't get it through their thick skulls.

 

Maybe they exhibit early signs of CTE.  CTE is not exclusive to NFL although NFL players want NFL to pay even if they exhibited symptoms before they joined.

[SCBills]

MLS just tested again with zero new positives.  

 

The bubble seems to be working, fwiw

[Doc]

1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said:

Assuming this hasn't been determined, part of me feels like a big sticking point for players is what happens to a player who decides to opt-out of playing for health concerns.

 

What happens if Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady* or Lamar Jackson or Gronk* or Drew Brees decide their (fill-in-the-blank reason...pregnant wives, children, etc.) are more important than playing this season? 

 

Does the NFL really want ten prime time games with Chad Henne and Blaine Gabbert under center? I'm gonna say no. I can see the NFL sitting on this to ensure their stars, so to speak, are aligned with the prime time games.

 

But then again, I'm just a Bills home who loves the game, so I can be completely in the wrong here.

 

If it means they get their TV money, hell yes.  

[MR8]

46 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Herd immunity is a pipe dream at this point. We dont even know if it's really possible, and considering we're starting to see people re-diagnosed after their first recovery, it may not ever be until there is a vaccine. (edit: I was just pulling up my sources from the re-diagnoses story from this weekend, and it looks like they are now saying it's merely remnants from the first infection, so maybe there is some hope)

 

I'm simply talking about getting a handle on the virus. Italy, Germany, Spain all did it and they have soccer back. South Korea has baseball back. New Zealand has Rugby back. They were all able to drive down the daily new case numbers to a point where re-opening made sense and wasn't a major risk. New York state has managed to match the curves of those countries, but plenty of others like here in Georgia are seeing the exact opposite. Video footage from this weekend shows downtown Nashville as packed and roaring as ever with not a mask in sight. So we choose our choices and get what we deserve.

 

 

The Concern about "Herd Immunity" is you need a vaccine for it.  Too many people are contracting Covid and having it be very mild... many don't even know they have/had it, and others don't have serious symptoms at all.  These cases are what has pushed the narrative that it's no big deal, however in Sweeden (a country that didn't shut down at all) they're finding despite an explosion in cases, there is an VERY small population who actually have the anti-bodies.  What that means is if you have Covid-19 and its very mild your body never really fights to create strong enough anti-bodies for them to be retained in your body's Rolodex of anti-bodies to fight it in the future.  

 

That's where the concern of re-infection comes from, if people don't have anti-bodies after a while for this thing, there potential for re-infection is very high.  That's hugely concerning.... If people can be reinfected, then there is no possible way to reach herd immunity unless everyone gets the virus and it's bad.  OR a vaccine could accomplish the same thing, but right now it looks like most are almost a year out... in the US there are 3 different vaccines being tested on humans right now, but clinical trials will take until December to know which ones are truly viable for mass production.... Then you need to factor in time for production by pharma companies... the estimate right now if everything goes well for one or more of the vaccines is April for the roll out to the the population for a vaccine, starting with those at the highest level of risk first... doctors, nurses, first responders, social workers, people with illnesses which make them more susceptible, followed by elderly.... then it would go to the general population. 

 

For everyone to be inoculated in America it will take MONTHS.... now factor in how many people are anti-vaccines and what that does to the idea of "herd immunity".  We could still be a full year to hear and a half away from even considering getting back to "Normal".

14 minutes ago, SCBills said:

MLS just tested again with zero new positives.  

 

The bubble seems to be working, fwiw

 

I think the hard part about football is there are SOOOO many more players and moving pieces.  Hopefully a "bubble" works, but with expanded rosters, you're talking about soooo freaking many people in the building, all it takes is 1 person breaking quarantine to reintroduce it to the rest.   

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, MR8 said:

 

The Concern about "Herd Immunity" is you need a vaccine for it.  Too many people are contracting Covid and having it be very mild... many don't even know they have/had it, and others don't have serious symptoms at all.  These cases are what has pushed the narrative that it's no big deal, however in Sweeden (a country that didn't shut down at all) they're finding despite an explosion in cases, there is an VERY small population who actually have the anti-bodies.  What that means is if you have Covid-19 and its very mild your body never really fights to create strong enough anti-bodies for them to be retained in your body's Rolodex of anti-bodies to fight it in the future.  

 

That's where the concern of re-infection comes from, if people don't have anti-bodies after a while for this thing, there potential for re-infection is very high.  That's hugely concerning.... If people can be reinfected, then there is no possible way to reach herd immunity unless everyone gets the virus and it's bad.  OR a vaccine could accomplish the same thing, but right now it looks like most are almost a year out... in the US there are 3 different vaccines being tested on humans right now, but clinical trials will take until December to know which ones are truly viable for mass production.... Then you need to factor in time for production by pharma companies... the estimate right now if everything goes well for one or more of the vaccines is April for the roll out to the the population for a vaccine, starting with those at the highest level of risk first... doctors, nurses, first responders, social workers, people with illnesses which make them more susceptible, followed by elderly.... then it would go to the general population. 

 

For everyone to be inoculated in America it will take MONTHS.... now factor in how many people are anti-vaccines and what that does to the idea of "herd immunity".  We could still be a full year to hear and a half away from even considering getting back to "Normal".

 

That's right. Until there is a vaccine, any talk about "herd immunity" actually means "culling the herd" because the only plan there can be "let it spread and see who dies". Not a good plan.

 

Thanks for the vaccine info and update. From that timeline it sounds like we should be able to have NEXT season, but any sports in 2020 are a reach.

[MR8]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That's right. Until there is a vaccine, any talk about "herd immunity" actually means "culling the herd" because the only plan there can be "let it spread and see who dies". Not a good plan.

 

Thanks for the vaccine info and update. From that timeline it sounds like we should be able to have NEXT season, but any sports in 2020 are a reach.

 

My cousin works for DHS and is one of the team coordinators for the Covid task force, so I get his updates every few days haha.  All this stuff is public record from their meetings, but it's not exactly posted in a way that it's easy to find.  Their sub committee meeting discussions that are then taken to the top, where recommendations are made to the director of DHS and the joint chiefs, at which time they present to the President, who decides what to say on the matter.... so there is a lot of infor that gets.... well.... "filtered" is how I'll put it lol

 

There have been statements by the white house that December there will be a vaccine... which is a half truth... there may be one, and it may be viable, but it certainly won't be available yet by then.  At least not to you and me... maybe to the President, but certainly not us.

 

Oh and their early findings for the 3 vaccines they are testing is that 2 of them thus far have proven to 100% inoculate people who do not have the virus, and for people who do it SEEMS to helps then create anti-bodies... not sure yet about that part because only time will tell how effective it is.  That's the hard part of these tests... just because it works for a short time that doesn't mean it really works.... that's why we are still 5 months away from really knowing, and they've been testing for a few months already... 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by MR8

[Mango]

24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It wasnt all immunity, I'd argue that had the least to do with it, it was following (or enforcing) the common sense rules.

Germany, Italy, and Spain were all hit just as hard as each other. And they could see it come back at any time (notice that bump Spain is seeing). But the common sense practices are helping keep it down.

 

New York:

 

WOMP WOMP

 

 

 

 

Adding on here, calling the dip in cases due to immunity is largely false. In a 60k+ person study in Spain, they estimate that only abut 5% of the population has antibodies. Some higher density areas like Madrid are around 10%, while coastal cities fall around 3%. Heard immunity would result in larger casualties than we are seeing now. 

 

(purposely linking fox news before somebody yells fake news)

https://www.foxnews.com/science/covid-19-antibody-study-spain-warns-herd-immunity-cannot-be-achieved-without-devastating-effects

[Saxum]

14 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Adding on here, calling the dip in cases due to immunity is largely false. In a 60k+ person study in Spain, they estimate that only abut 5% of the population has antibodies. Some higher density areas like Madrid are around 10%, while coastal cities fall around 3%. Heard immunity would result in larger casualties than we are seeing now. 

 

(purposely linking fox news before somebody yells fake news)

https://www.foxnews.com/science/covid-19-antibody-study-spain-warns-herd-immunity-cannot-be-achieved-without-devastating-effects

 

So you are posting Fake News so someone else does not yell "Fake News"? Interesting.

Anyone hear about a Zebra revolt - I am guessing that those who do this on the side would love to take a year off without risk as long as their places were ensured next year.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

So you are posting Fake News so someone else does not yell "Fake News"? Interesting.

 

No, there are dozens of sources reporting it. I just know some here are not particularly "fond" of CNN, MSNBC, BBC, NPR, NYT. 

[machine gun kelly]

22 minutes ago, MR8 said:

 

The Concern about "Herd Immunity" is you need a vaccine for it.  Too many people are contracting Covid and having it be very mild... many don't even know they have/had it, and others don't have serious symptoms at all.  These cases are what has pushed the narrative that it's no big deal, however in Sweeden (a country that didn't shut down at all) they're finding despite an explosion in cases, there is an VERY small population who actually have the anti-bodies.  What that means is if you have Covid-19 and its very mild your body never really fights to create strong enough anti-bodies for them to be retained in your body's Rolodex of anti-bodies to fight it in the future.  

 

That's where the concern of re-infection comes from, if people don't have anti-bodies after a while for this thing, there potential for re-infection is very high.  That's hugely concerning.... If people can be reinfected, then there is no possible way to reach herd immunity unless everyone gets the virus and it's bad.  OR a vaccine could accomplish the same thing, but right now it looks like most are almost a year out... in the US there are 3 different vaccines being tested on humans right now, but clinical trials will take until December to know which ones are truly viable for mass production.... Then you need to factor in time for production by pharma companies... the estimate right now if everything goes well for one or more of the vaccines is April for the roll out to the the population for a vaccine, starting with those at the highest level of risk first... doctors, nurses, first responders, social workers, people with illnesses which make them more susceptible, followed by elderly.... then it would go to the general population. 

 

For everyone to be inoculated in America it will take MONTHS.... now factor in how many people are anti-vaccines and what that does to the idea of "herd immunity".  We could still be a full year to hear and a half away from even considering getting back to "Normal".

 

I think the hard part about football is there are SOOOO many more players and moving pieces.  Hopefully a "bubble" works, but with expanded rosters, you're talking about soooo freaking many people in the building, all it takes is 1 person breaking quarantine to reintroduce it to the rest.   

Good job MR8.  Well written.  It’s almost optimistic for March.  People who don’t know anything about medicine and the FDA are writing inaccurate points, but I guess par for the course.  Between completing a phase 3 trial, packaging the date which takes 4-6 weeks, go;g through a PMA, waiting for the reviewers questions, answering hopefully successfully, then mas producing a vaccine to inoculate an entire country that wants to take it, is going to be a huge undertaking.

 

This is the reason why we may not even have full stadiums in 2021.  Forget 2020 as that is done.  Holding onto that pipe dream is ridiculous.

[Saxum]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

No, there are dozens of sources reporting it. I just know some here are not particularly "fond" of CNN, MSNBC, BBC, NPR, NYT. 

 

Heard a fellow worker (when I went to office) that Fox News is Fixed and far too left for his taste.

[Mango]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

Heard a fellow worker (when I went to office) that Fox News is Fixed and far too left for his taste.

 

That is terrifying.