LABILLBACKER Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Let Miami watch a just-paid Shaq hit the breaks and go back to half-assing it like he had until his contract year. That's very likely. I think as a pass rushing DE, Addison has slightly more upside. 1
Mr. WEO Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dopey said: I agree he played better in his last year. He should have played well. It was his 3rd year in the system. His numbers are pretty much the same for his 3 healthy seasons with us though. All I'm saying is this characterization of him playing "hard" only in his contract year isn't true. IMO. I was surprised he signed for only 3 years Guess he's gambling on getting one more big contract before he's too old. . No one offered him more. He had zero other options. 1
Saxum Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, Dopey said: I was surprised he signed for only 3 years. Guess he's gambling on getting one more big contract before he's too old. He may have clauses in contract allowing him to break if he hits certain milestones or buy back years. 1
SCBills Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 Addison is the better player and better contract for us. He’s a better player than Lawson, but will probably have less usage due to age. We use a heavy DL rotation so the lower expected usage shouldn’t be a huge issue. He’s also on a shorter contract. Along with Epenesa, you’ll probably see us bring in high draft pick DE’s in the next two drafts. Hughes and Addison potentially hold us over for the next two years before we’ll need rookie contracts on the DL when Allen, White, Dawkins, Diggs, and Edmunds will all likely be getting PAID by us.
RocCityRoller Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 I understand what the OP is saying. I'll go out on a limb here and say I think the DL is weaker than before, with the exception of Epensa. Lawson and Phillips were loud, proud and loved being Buffalo Bills. Look at the Thanksgiving game. Lawson and Phillips feasted. We don't win that game without them. A DT with 10 sacks? We hope Oliver does that. We just let one go. Phillips may go on as being the next gen Pat Williams. A low cost find at DT, that was a big mistake to let go at DT. Phillips' sacks were mostly in large situations. 3rd and long, sack. I am in the minority, but I think the DL is weaker than last year. Sure, we have numbers, but Lawson and Phillips did ball out last year. Sure, contract years and all, but if we want to buy into McDermott's all in philosophy, these guys feasted. Big mistakes that could be afforded IMO.
ganesh Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) what would have the BIlls paid Lawson if we had picked the option for his fifth year ? 14 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: I understand what the OP is saying. I'll go out on a limb here and say I think the DL is weaker than before, with the exception of Epensa. Lawson and Phillips were loud, proud and loved being Buffalo Bills. Look at the Thanksgiving game. Lawson and Phillips feasted. We don't win that game without them. A DT with 10 sacks? We hope Oliver does that. We just let one go. Phillips may go on as being the next gen Pat Williams. A low cost find at DT, that was a big mistake to let go at DT. Phillips' sacks were mostly in large situations. 3rd and long, sack. I am in the minority, but I think the DL is weaker than last year. Sure, we have numbers, but Lawson and Phillips did ball out last year. Sure, contract years and all, but if we want to buy into McDermott's all in philosophy, these guys feasted. Big mistakes that could be afforded IMO. The salary cap limits in that you cannot pay everyone their FA contract. The Bills have upcoming contracts for White, Milano, Dawkins and then the big one for Edmunds and Allen. Lawson and Phillips were good, but not consistent enough to earn that big contract and then put the Bills at risk in signing their home bred players. You cannot sign everyone and the Bills chose that the above players are better for being long term bills than the ones they let them get away in FA. Just for every huge play made by Phillips and Lawson, they also made many dumb plays and they didn't earn their paychecks in Houston when it mattered in the 4th quarter. Edited July 15, 2020 by ganesh
SCBills Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: I understand what the OP is saying. I'll go out on a limb here and say I think the DL is weaker than before, with the exception of Epensa. Lawson and Phillips were loud, proud and loved being Buffalo Bills. Look at the Thanksgiving game. Lawson and Phillips feasted. We don't win that game without them. A DT with 10 sacks? We hope Oliver does that. We just let one go. Phillips may go on as being the next gen Pat Williams. A low cost find at DT, that was a big mistake to let go at DT. Phillips' sacks were mostly in large situations. 3rd and long, sack. I am in the minority, but I think the DL is weaker than last year. Sure, we have numbers, but Lawson and Phillips did ball out last year. Sure, contract years and all, but if we want to buy into McDermott's all in philosophy, these guys feasted. Big mistakes that could be afforded IMO. I honestly disagree. I think Addison is better than Lawson. Jefferson is legit. Oliver is no longer a rookie. Epenesa gives us a young EDGE. We get Harry back, and will see what Butler gives us... He’s a similar kind of reclamation project that Phillips was. Addison is the best pass rusher we’ve had in the past few years and should make Hughes look better. 3
purple haze Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: False. Rex was gone 3 seasons ago. Lawson’s awakening came last year. Noticing this, McD and Beane said “adios”. False. I get it, Shaq wasn't as impactful as fans wanted him to be, but he played pretty well in 2018. 2019 was just a continuation. He was okay and they could still do better. Both can be true.
DCofNC Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 Shaq may have had his agent point out the income tax difference too, on 30M that’s HUGE, he nets about 2M more to play in Florida, winning.
Mr. WEO Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, purple haze said: False. I get it, Shaq wasn't as impactful as fans McD and Beane wanted him to be, Fixed. So they let him go and replaced him with someone they thought was actually worth what Lawson wanted. Their actions tell us all we need to know. Edited July 15, 2020 by Mr. WEO
JerseyBills Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 7 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: What did Addison's numbers look like in the years prior to FA like 2 to 3 years back. Shaq looked solid last year, but prior, not very good. Maybe he just looked good for the contract. Same could be true for Addison as I don't know what is 2017 and 2018 number of sacks, etc looked like. He has been extremely consistent. People talking about his age don't understand that many pass rushers excel into their late 30s. He'll be 32 and playing in a DL rotation. He's a leader and works his butt off. I don't forsee a drop off because of age. I think he'll be more productive than Shaq and challenge Hughes as the best pass rusher. People are going to be shocked at how good this guy is. Super consistent 1 1
billsbackto81 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Nope. Were that true they would have kept him. Exactly. There's a reason his option wasn't picked up. Up until last year his play was mediocre at best. Though I would've liked to retain both he and Phillips they got paid way more than Buffalo was willing. 1
machine gun kelly Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 Shaq wasn’t as bad as some people portray, and not as good as others. He was a role player that never lived up to the Wrex hype he was going to be the next Von Miller. It wasn’t his fault as he didn’t self promote, it was Wrex being Wrex, the blowhard. Im fine with the Addison pick up. He’s had good numbers the last few years, and will be a nice short term fix for two years. It gives us time to develop Epenesa, and next year we’ll probably take another DE as Hughes will be gone along with Murphy. We’ll get younger and people will get excited about it especially if we trade up in the first.
Thurman#1 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: False. Rex was gone 3 seasons ago. Lawson’s awakening came last year. Noticing this, McD and Beane said “adios”. Not at all. Lawson has improved each year. Particularly the last couple of years. They likely just figured they could replace him cheaper. 1
Billy Claude Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Not at all. Lawson has improved each year. Particularly the last couple of years. They likely just figured they could replace him cheaper. I agree. There is no need to bash a guy just because he is not on the Bills anymore. Shaq was pretty good the last half of 2018 and better than that in 2019. Clearly the Bills wanted him back. Beane said so at the post season press conference. The Bills made a competitive offer to Shaq (versus Jordan Phillips who they did not make an offer to). They just didn't want him as much as the Dolphins. Maybe they didn't match because they were thinking of Addison as an alternative during the Lawson negotiations but obviously we will never know. Edited July 15, 2020 by Billy Claude
eball Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 8 hours ago, RocCityRoller said: I'll go out on a limb here and say I think the DL is weaker than before, with the exception of Epensa. That is a precarious limb already rotten and about to fall to the ground. You may be the only person I’ve seen talk about the Bills’ DL being weaker this season because of the changes made. I mean, I have a bit of respect for a contrarian argument, but this one is waaaaaay out there. Shaq Lawson and Jordan Phillips were not the keys to the Bills’ defense...not by a longshot.
Mr. WEO Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Not at all. Lawson has improved each year. Particularly the last couple of years. They likely just figured they could replace him cheaper. They didn't really. You don't take a mediocre player "improving each year" on his rookie contract, not pick up his option and then let him go and bring in an older guy for essentially the same money----unless you don't think he's worth it. They didn't.
BarleyNY Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 Hey, remember all the posters on here who kept talking about what a steal Shaq was where the Bills got him in the draft? How his torn labrum (that we knew he had when we drafted him!) caused him to miss so much time his rookie season was no big deal because he’d be a stud DE long term? I wonder what happened to them?
Lurker Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 Addison: Lawson: 2020: $9,968,750 cap hit $13,250,000 dead cap 2020: $10,333,333 cap hit $21,000,000 dead cap 2021 $10,225,000 cap hit $4,000,000 dead cap 2021: $9,333,333 cap hit $10,666,667 dead cap 2022 $10,225,000 cap hit $2,000,000 dead cap 2022: $10,333,333 cap hit $1,333,334 dead cap 2023: UFA 2023: UFA Addison's contract is much easier to get out of than Lawson's. If he's inneffective this year, he's realatively easy to cut--unlike Lawson and his $10.7MM dead cap hit in 2021... 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 13 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Addison has actually been getting better as he has gotten older But that’s the tricky part in the nfl. Mario Williams, a much more talented player, went from 14.5 to 5 to 1.5 and then out of the league at 31. These guys can fall off a cliff in one year. I think Shaq got overpaid and isn’t a dominant pass rusher. But he is a good all around DE, who is 25 and appears to be ascending. It’s a tough call and I will trust them in defense because they been really good with their evaluations (minus Venison Murphy and Star). But I won’t be shocked at all to regret this move in a few years. 12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: That's very likely. I think as a pass rushing DE, Addison has slightly more upside. Shaq isn’t a special pass rusher but it’s hard to say the 33 year old has more upside.
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