Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, FireChans said: Yeah, the point that you missed was that just because a team wins a Super Bowl without a good player, doesn’t mean it isn’t good to have a good player. Just because a team wins once with backup at QB doesn’t mean you don’t want good QB’s. You always want a good QB. Foles was a good QB. He won a SB with a scrub LT. In his 11 seasons, the Eagles only appeared in 6 playoffs games and lost 5 of them (4 WC losses). Without him, they played 3 playoff games and won all including the SB. They needed great QB play (they got it from Foles). They didn't need elite LT play. Peters's impact was limited... 2 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: We can (and will) sugar coat it, I mean; this IS a board for Bills Fans. The truth however is that Peters was one of the very best players in the history of this team. We traded him away in his prime and didn't get anything close to adequate compensation because at the time, we were a second rate franchise. Now, the FANS were NOT second rate. No, it was the ownership and management. Peters will be in the Hall of Fame. Rationalizing getting rid of a world class left tackle in his prime is just silly. Jmo. Come on...
FireChans Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: You always want a good QB. Foles was a good QB. He won a SB with a scrub LT. In his 11 seasons, the Eagles only appeared in 6 playoffs games and lost 5 of them (4 WC losses). Without him, they played 3 playoff games and won all including the SB. They needed great QB play (they got it from Foles). They didn't need elite LT play. Peters's impact was limited... Come on... Like I said before. No one is saying a player like Peters is the difference between a Super Bowl or not. But good LT’s are sought after in the NFL for good reason, and great LT’s are better than good LT’s. And trading franchise cornerstones for a late first that turns into a decent Center is a net loss.
Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, FireChans said: Like I said before. No one is saying a player like Peters is the difference between a Super Bowl or not. But good LT’s are sought after in the NFL for good reason, and great LT’s are better than good LT’s. And trading franchise cornerstones for a late first that turns into a decent Center is a net loss. Truly great kickers are better than great LTs. In fact, their greatness is plain to see. If your "franchise cornerstone" is an LT, blow it up and start over (begin with those trade picks).
FireChans Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Truly great kickers are better than great LTs. In fact, their greatness is plain to see. If your "franchise cornerstone" is an LT, blow it up and start over (begin with those trade picks). You can play this game with every position. Who was the Eagles stud WR when they won a Super Bowl? How many Superbowls has Hopkins or Michael Thomas dragged their teams to? Who was the stud running back on the Pats or the Eagles or the Chiefs? Who was the star CB on the Eagles or the Chiefs? We get it, you don’t need a great LT to win a Super Bowl. You don’t even need a great QB, ask Trent Dilfer or Peyton Manning’s corpse. Position importance in the NFL goes QB ( massive gap) pass rusher then a debateable order of skill position, CB and LT. Does that mean you need a Hall of Fame pass rusher to win a Super Bowl? No. Does that mean you need a HoF WR to win one? No. Does that mean you need a HoF CB or LT to win one? No. But are all of those positions important? Yes. Are all of those positions the highest paid league wide? Yes. So is trading a great player at an important position for a not so great player at a less important position a bad move? Yes.
Bill from NYC Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: You always want a good QB. Foles was a good QB. He won a SB with a scrub LT. In his 11 seasons, the Eagles only appeared in 6 playoffs games and lost 5 of them (4 WC losses). Without him, they played 3 playoff games and won all including the SB. They needed great QB play (they got it from Foles). They didn't need elite LT play. Peters's impact was limited... Come on... How many Bills are in the HOF?
machine gun kelly Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 It was interesting listening to David Diehl (Giants Lineman for 13 years and played both Tackle and Guard) yesterday how much of a challenge it will be for Peters to move inside at 38. He went into detail where a Tackle vs. Guard and how their actions are based on what step. Also, he pointed out first year Tackle last year had a mediocre performance last year and allowed a great deal more sacks than Peters when he played. His inference was Peters will end up at Tackle at some point for Philly especially since Wentz can’t take all the hits as he has been hurt too often.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 On 7/14/2020 at 8:51 PM, Mr. WEO said: So what? That fact had no impact on the Bills fortunes. A really good LT on a bad team is a wasted resource. See: Joe Thomas's entire career. This, this, 82000 times this. 1
Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 7 hours ago, FireChans said: You can play this game with every position. Who was the Eagles stud WR when they won a Super Bowl? How many Superbowls has Hopkins or Michael Thomas dragged their teams to? Who was the stud running back on the Pats or the Eagles or the Chiefs? Who was the star CB on the Eagles or the Chiefs? We get it, you don’t need a great LT to win a Super Bowl. You don’t even need a great QB, ask Trent Dilfer or Peyton Manning’s corpse. Position importance in the NFL goes QB ( massive gap) pass rusher then a debateable order of skill position, CB and LT. Does that mean you need a Hall of Fame pass rusher to win a Super Bowl? No. Does that mean you need a HoF WR to win one? No. Does that mean you need a HoF CB or LT to win one? No. But are all of those positions important? Yes. Are all of those positions the highest paid league wide? Yes. So is trading a great player at an important position for a not so great player at a less important position a bad move? Yes. You've made a convincing argument above that you do not need an elite LT on the roster, so if he is your best asset, you trade him for more assets. It's that simple. The Browns had a HOF LT and plenty of not great or good QBs, where is their playoff win? QB, pass rusher, RB, WR, even CB are all playmakers that can alter the outcome of a game. LT is part of an ensemble that may or may not do a good jib protecting the QB (see O-line results for Browns in Thomas era). It's like being the best security guard at one entrance to a building that still gets robbed every day. You're still struggling with the concept of getting good value for a trade in picks....and then making poor choices with those picks. What you do with those picks doesn't invalidate the value of the trade, obviously. If someone offers the Bills 2 first round picks for Tre, for example, and the Bills turn those picks into busts, you can't then argue that it was a bad trade. 2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: How many Bills are in the HOF? Peters played one full season (of 5) in Buffalo, 2 Pro Bowls. Calling him a "Bills (future?) HOF'er" would be like KC calling Joe Montana a "Chiefs HOF'er". Or Tampa calling Brady a "Bucs HOF'er".
Bill from NYC Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: You've made a convincing argument above that you do not need an elite LT on the roster, so if he is your best asset, you trade him for more assets. It's that simple. The Browns had a HOF LT and plenty of not great or good QBs, where is their playoff win? QB, pass rusher, RB, WR, even CB are all playmakers that can alter the outcome of a game. LT is part of an ensemble that may or may not do a good jib protecting the QB (see O-line results for Browns in Thomas era). It's like being the best security guard at one entrance to a building that still gets robbed every day. You're still struggling with the concept of getting good value for a trade in picks....and then making poor choices with those picks. What you do with those picks doesn't invalidate the value of the trade, obviously. If someone offers the Bills 2 first round picks for Tre, for example, and the Bills turn those picks into busts, you can't then argue that it was a bad trade. Peters played one full season (of 5) in Buffalo, 2 Pro Bowls. Calling him a "Bills (future?) HOF'er" would be like KC calling Joe Montana a "Chiefs HOF'er". Or Tampa calling Brady a "Bucs HOF'er". Yes, because of the stupidity of the organization at that time. Also, how many LTs are in the Hall of Fame?
Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: Yes, because of the stupidity of the organization at that time. Also, how many LTs are in the Hall of Fame? Yes they should have kept him so they could some day say they (maybe) had another HOF'er...that would have been his ultimate impact on their fortunes for his career. By my count 31 T's in HOF. Why not John Fina? He's was blocking for 3 HOF'ers.
Buffalo716 Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: You've made a convincing argument above that you do not need an elite LT on the roster, so if he is your best asset, you trade him for more assets. It's that simple. The Browns had a HOF LT and plenty of not great or good QBs, where is their playoff win? QB, pass rusher, RB, WR, even CB are all playmakers that can alter the outcome of a game. LT is part of an ensemble that may or may not do a good jib protecting the QB (see O-line results for Browns in Thomas era). It's like being the best security guard at one entrance to a building that still gets robbed every day. You're still struggling with the concept of getting good value for a trade in picks....and then making poor choices with those picks. What you do with those picks doesn't invalidate the value of the trade, obviously. If someone offers the Bills 2 first round picks for Tre, for example, and the Bills turn those picks into busts, you can't then argue that it was a bad trade. Peters played one full season (of 5) in Buffalo, 2 Pro Bowls. Calling him a "Bills (future?) HOF'er" would be like KC calling Joe Montana a "Chiefs HOF'er". Or Tampa calling Brady a "Bucs HOF'er". That's actually how the NFL works Tom Brady will go into the Hall of Fame as a patriot and buccaneer Just like Thurman Thomas is technically a bill and dolphin
Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: That's actually how the NFL works Tom Brady will go into the Hall of Fame as a patriot and buccaneer Just like Thurman Thomas is technically a bill and dolphin Players don’t “go into” the HOF as members of any team.
Buffalo716 Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Players don’t “go into” the HOF as members of any team. I mean go to the Hall of Fame website. You can search by enshrinees by team. So they obviously do If they didn't go under any team you wouldn't be able to search by team. It would just be a list of guys. Enshrinees are enshrined under every team they have played for. That's just how they do it Go to dolphins Hall of famers and Thurman Thomas is there. He didn't have a choice saying no I don't want to be grouped with them. He automatically was Edited July 16, 2020 by Buffalo716
Mr. WEO Posted July 16, 2020 Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I mean go to the Hall of Fame website. You can search by enshrinees by team. So they obviously do If they didn't go under any team you wouldn't be able to search by team. It would just be a list of guys. Enshrinees are enshrined under every team they have played for. That's just how they do it Go to dolphins Hall of famers and Thurman Thomas is there. He didn't have a choice saying no I don't want to be grouped with them. He automatically was In the hall, each enshrined player has each of his team affiliations listed. Anyway, that wasn't the point of my reply from Bill from NYC. Nevermind.
soflabillsfan1 Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 Only on this board would people defend trading away a HOF LT. It was a complete mismanagement by the Bills. 1
ChevyVanMiller Posted September 7, 2020 Author Posted September 7, 2020 Now moving back to Left Tackle after trying to negotiate a pay raise. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29832011/jason-peters-agrees-move-back-left-tackle-eagles
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