Call_Of_Ktulu Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 23 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said: If Dawkins has a big season, then we should pay him well. If he has an average season, (which overall is what his play has been over the past 3 years) then let him walk and try and find someone who is better. I hope it is the former rather then the latter. I agree with this, being a honorable mention does not mean you are paid like a top 10 LT. His play over the last few years has been slightly above average. Of the honorable mentions he would be last on this list and ranked exactly where I thought he should be ranked at like 15 to 18 range.
Stank_Nasty Posted July 12, 2020 Author Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I agree with this, being a honorable mention does not mean you are paid like a top 10 LT. His play over the last few years has been slightly above average. Of the honorable mentions he would be last on this list and ranked exactly where I thought he should be ranked at like 15 to 18 range. If we’re assuming the honorable mentions are names in rank order he’d be 14th on the list. If you take out the RT’s in front of him he’s the 10th highest LT on the list. This list ranking has Dawkins right there at the top ten of LT’s. He’ll get paid like it. He’s young, improving, and I’d be fine with a top ten deal. Edited July 12, 2020 by Stank_Nasty
NewEra Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MJS said: The elite pass rushers produce sacks and pressures even when they are double teamed all game long. They make impact plays at key moments. Guys like Aaron Donald, Mack, etc. They don't need another top edge rusher across from them to be effective. In fact, Mario Williams was like that when he chose to be (but he was lazy and took plays off). Hughes isn't that kind of player. And I disagree that he is "very good". He's good. But you are entitled to your opinion. And it's ok if you disagree with me. They do sometimes. Sometimes they are shut down completely. I remember when John Miller and Jordan Mills made JJ invisible. Even those elite players are best when they have a great player opposite them. This isn’t even up for discussion. regarding jerry, we agree to disagree. He’s very good in my book. Edited July 12, 2020 by NewEra
purple haze Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 8:43 AM, Kirby Jackson said: They’re going to pay him before the season IMO. We are looking at something like 4 years and $60M. You think? I don't know what Beane's appetite is for dishing out new contracts with all of this uncertainty surrounding the season. I would like to see Dawkins and Milano get theirs now so Beane can focus on Tre.
GunnerBill Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 2 hours ago, MJS said: The elite pass rushers produce sacks and pressures even when they are double teamed all game long. They make impact plays at key moments. Guys like Aaron Donald, Mack, etc. They don't need another top edge rusher across from them to be effective. In fact, Mario Williams was like that when he chose to be (but he was lazy and took plays off). Hughes isn't that kind of player. And I disagree that he is "very good". He's good. But you are entitled to your opinion. And it's ok if you disagree with me. I am with you for what it is worth.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, purple haze said: You think? I don't know what Beane's appetite is for dishing out new contracts with all of this uncertainty surrounding the season. I would like to see Dawkins and Milano get theirs now so Beane can focus on Tre. I don’t think that they want to have to deal with Dawkins and Milano after the year. Maybe one of them but not both. They can always use a tag if need be on one of them. The Tre contract has to come after this season too as you said. That’s going to be massive. I feel like 4 years and $60M for Dawkins would be numbers that both sides would be comfortable with.
purple haze Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I don’t think that they want to have to deal with Dawkins and Milano after the year. Maybe one of them but not both. They can always use a tag if need be on one of them. The Tre contract has to come after this season too as you said. That’s going to be massive. I feel like 4 years and $60M for Dawkins would be numbers that both sides would be comfortable with. That number sounds right. I hate the idea of a tag for either Dawkins or Milano. The uncertainty around next year's cap might be holding things up though. 2
2ForMacAdoo Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 11:37 AM, Paup 1995MVP said: If Dawkins has a big season, then we should pay him well. If he has an average season, (which overall is what his play has been over the past 3 years) then let him walk and try and find someone who is better. I hope it is the former rather then the latter. Bryce, do you remember when the Bills signed you away from Green Bay in 1995? I'll never forget how everyone was talking about how Ralph had really emptied his pockets to make that free agent signing (3 years/$7.5 million). How things have changed. Today, that would be backup $$, not elite, first tier category.
JerseyBills Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 12:10 PM, H2o said: Tunsil @ #2 though? The guy is a penalty machine and gets away with a lot more than he actually gets called for. He's like the Lee Smith of OT's. Hughes abused him too in the WC game. 3 sacks , few hurries. Very overrated. Dion has the potential, and remember, year 2 he was on a disgustingly bad OL, year 3 he saw 4 new starters on his OL. Very excited to see him this year with continuity on the OL. At least 3 returning starters, if not 4 and same LG and C!!
Chandler#81 Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 7:02 PM, LittleSammy said: You lost me when I saw this was determined by ESPN. Combine this with the scathing criticism he receives here, and you KNOW he sucks.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 17 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: That's not the way it works. If a guy is 15th best, out of 64, he's going to get paid probably somewhere in the general range of 3rd to 8th. That's the way it works with the rising cap. It might be a bit different if the cap dips due to the coronavirus. But that's what guys get when they sign a new contract, they're above a bunch of guys who are as good or better but signed a few years back. It's how it works, and Dawkins should be signed if at all possible. The $15 mill or so a year someone suggested is in the right ballpark. You do NOT want to create a vacancy at LT unless forced to in some way. If Dawkins refused to sign for less than $20, then yeah, you get one somewhere else. But they're likely to find agreement in that general range suggested above, and he isn't league average, he's significantly above it. The article has him in the top 11 to 14 of all tackles, left and right, and that's also in the right ballpark though most of the guys above him on that list are LTs. You can’t pay everyone. Choices need to be made. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. Beane overpays in free agency (Morse, Murphy, Star) and he talks about drafting and signing those guys long term. He’s an average left tackle and he can be replaced. Save the money for White, Allen, Edmunds, Hyde, and a pass rusher in free agency. 1
Paup 1995MVP Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 17 hours ago, 2ForMacAdoo said: Bryce, do you remember when the Bills signed you away from Green Bay in 1995? I'll never forget how everyone was talking about how Ralph had really emptied his pockets to make that free agent signing (3 years/$7.5 million). How things have changed. Today, that would be backup $$, not elite, first tier category. I was happy with that kind of money 25 years ago. Is that what the terms were? I was so happy to be able to buy a top end snowmobile to race between Green Bay and Buffalo all winter long, that I forgot the actual numbers. Look at AJ Kleins numbers compared to what I got 25 years ago. LOL
2ForMacAdoo Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said: I was happy with that kind of money 25 years ago. Is that what the terms were? I was so happy to be able to buy a top end snowmobile to race between Green Bay and Buffalo all winter long, that I forgot the actual numbers. Look at AJ Kleins numbers compared to what I got 25 years ago. LOL Hahahahaha! Perfect comparison. AJ Klein couldn't hold Bryce's jockstrap. Just looked up the contract numbers for Klein: 3 years, $18 million, $11.3 million guaranteed, $6 million average annual salary. Basically double the NFL MVP's salary from 25 years ago for a backup. Insanity.
DBilz2500 Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said: I was happy with that kind of money 25 years ago. Is that what the terms were? I was so happy to be able to buy a top end snowmobile to race between Green Bay and Buffalo all winter long, that I forgot the actual numbers. Look at AJ Kleins numbers compared to what I got 25 years ago. LOL Wait, are you really Bryce Paup?! 1
Thurman#1 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 3:09 PM, Ethan in Portland said: You can’t pay everyone. Choices need to be made. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. Beane overpays in free agency (Morse, Murphy, Star) and he talks about drafting and signing those guys long term. He’s an average left tackle and he can be replaced. Save the money for White, Allen, Edmunds, Hyde, and a pass rusher in free agency. You keep saying it, and each time you do, it does not become one iota more true. He's not average, not as a tackle and not as a left tackle. He's above average. He's not elite, but he's significantly above average. The article, which you said you agree with, puts him somewhere between the ninth and twelfth-best LT. And yeah, that's about right. Which is again, not average. And when you have a left tackle who is significantly above average, you want to do your best to keep him, because like it or not those guys are absolutely NOT easily replaceable. To have a good chance of replacing a guy like Dawkins you either have to use a high draft pick or pay a very high salary. That's just he way it is. Agreed that you can't pay everyone and that choices will need to be made. 1
ghostwriter Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 I’d pay Dawkins. I think $15M/yr is a bargain long term if you can sign him to that..
GunnerBill Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 45 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: You keep saying it, and each time you do, it does not become one iota more true. He's not average, not as a tackle and not as a left tackle. He's above average. He's not elite, but he's significantly above average. The article, which you said you agree with, puts him somewhere between the ninth and twelfth-best LT. And yeah, that's about right. Which is again, not average. And when you have a left tackle who is significantly above average, you want to do your best to keep him, because like it or not those guys are absolutely NOT easily replaceable. To have a good chance of replacing a guy like Dawkins you either have to use a high draft pick or pay a very high salary. That's just he way it is. Agreed that you can't pay everyone and that choices will need to be made. Agree totally with this. Where are you getting a replacement from if you let him walk? Look at this past draft. 4 really good tackle prospects.... all off the board by #13 way before the Bills picked. We are too good of a team at this stage to be in position to get a top flight tackle prospect. And the thing about Dawkins is if for some reason in two or three years time one does drop to you and is the best player at a premium position on the board you can take him and slide Dion in to guard. The man who there is a legitimate to pay or not to pay argument on is Matt Milano. They could go either way on that IMO. Dion they should definitely retain.
Paup 1995MVP Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 11:25 PM, 2ForMacAdoo said: Hahahahaha! Perfect comparison. AJ Klein couldn't hold Bryce's jockstrap. Just looked up the contract numbers for Klein: 3 years, $18 million, $11.3 million guaranteed, $6 million average annual salary. Basically double the NFL MVP's salary from 25 years ago for a backup. Insanity. Salaries have skyrocketed over the years. But don't sell AJ Klein short. He has some game. He is not the dynamic player that Bryce Paup was. But he is solid nonetheless. On 7/13/2020 at 11:34 PM, DBilz2500 said: Wait, are you really Bryce Paup?! No I am not. But he was one of my favorite players of that era. I still have my #95 Paup Jersey which I bought at the start of the 1996 season. My eyes are not set as wide apart as his were. LOL
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