LB3 Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Capco said: The fact that I don’t get pulled over multiple times a year simply because of the color of my skin has nothing to do with my unique life circumstances. The reason that I never get pulled over is the fact that I drive like grandma. 2 1
Motorin' Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: See, now if your argument was we have an inherently unfair or corrupt economic system, you may find me in agreement. If you're trying to sell me on white privilege, white fragility, or systemic racism, good luck. Both and, not either or.
muppy Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/4ayw8j/white-privilege-examples there were many listed here I'd never have thought of but are things we white folks take for granted that people of color cannot. This thread can either be thought provoking reflection or can be racially provocative fear based propaganda against changes that could benefit not destroy race relations and relationships. I hope for the former. #THINK
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Motorin' said: Both and, not either or. Nope, sorry. Categorically reject the principle of CRT and systemic racism. I've yet to see a convincing argument. Edit: apologies, I misunderstood that post and reacted hastily. I agree it can be both unfair and corrupt. But I reject that it's cultural in origin. Edited July 10, 2020 by Joe in Winslow
Motorin' Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Nope, sorry. Categorically reject the principle of CRT and systemic racism. I've yet to see a convincing argument. Edit: apologies, I misunderstood that post and reacted hastily. I agree it can be both unfair and corrupt. But I reject that it's cultural in origin. I believe that race based discrimination and class based discrimination have the same root.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 Just now, Motorin' said: I believe that race based discrimination and class based discrimination have the same root. In that they're done by individual human beings, maybe. But make no mistake: I vehemently oppose any philosophy that says the government has any right to take what I've earned by my own labor and give it to anyone else. Taxation is theft, legalized. I also think the government shouldn't bail out failing businesses. It was wrong in 2008/2009. It's wrong now. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 45 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Nope, sorry. Categorically reject the principle of CRT and systemic racism. I've yet to see a convincing argument. Edit: apologies, I misunderstood that post and reacted hastily. I agree it can be both unfair and corrupt. But I reject that it's cultural in origin. ...agree.....I'm white, hardly privileged coming from a meager background, in my 44th year of working still at age 67, earning a reasonable living...NO feeling of supremacy nor any feeling of guilt period.....subjected to ethnic racism because of my Italian heritage?...yup.....the "vowel at the end is a dead giveaway"......the headhunter phrase was "one of them eye-talians".....I have tried to make the best of opportunities available and ran with them.......as have many successful African-Americans......blanket, generic racism calls about blacks is an insult to those who have AND continue to make it.....NOT to say racism doesn't exist based on race, creed, color, ethnicity et al......look at the ongoing conflicts spanning thousands of years worldwide regarding ethnic racism for an example............ 1
unbillievable Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 57 minutes ago, Muppy said: https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/4ayw8j/white-privilege-examples there were many listed here I'd never have thought of but are things we white folks take for granted that people of color cannot. This thread can either be thought provoking reflection or can be racially provocative fear based propaganda against changes that could benefit not destroy race relations and relationships. I hope for the former. #THINK That article is idiotic. It's just comparing one extreme anecdotal story to another. That is not evidence. The same examples can be used to show "black privilege". The first one about using mug shots vs yearbook photos.... George floyd always shown in a tuxedo... Trayvon Martin used baby pictures...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 Just now, unbillievable said: That article is idiotic. It's just comparing one extreme anecdotal story to another. That is not evidence. The same examples can be used to show "black privilege". The first one about using mug shots vs yearbook photos.... George floyd always shown in a tuxedo... Trayvon Martin used baby pictures... It's Vice. To expect anything but idiocy from Vice is probably foolish. 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Motorin' said: Both and, not either or. There is a cultural privilege which has nothing to do with race. Such a privilege will manifest itself in any area where there is a large majority of any culture. 2
Azalin Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 6 hours ago, keepthefaith said: How do we have a serious conversation without a point or two to start? Give us your top 3 white privileges and we can start there unless you're merely looking for this type of conversation. You're wasting premium comedy on that muffinhead? 2
keepthefaith Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Motorin' said: The effect of the historical practice is still massive today for a number of reasons. And property taxes in Chicago are still highly regressive, with people on the South and West sides paying taxes way over assessed compared to homeowners on the Northside and corporations. Btw, property taxes are collected by Cook County, not the city of Chicago. https://www.chicagotribune.com/investigations/ct-tax-divide-investigation-20180425-storygallery.html Yes, I'm aware that Chicago taxes are managed by Cook County which extends outside of the city, but rest assured it's run very integrally to the City. We don't know if taxes are highly regressive from the article. It provides very few data points. Also this excerpt is probably a big part of the explanation. "Regressivity is an inherent problem in mass-appraisal models because they rely on averages. The models take certain characteristics of homes that sold and figure out average values for each one — the price per bathroom, per square foot and so on. Those values are then used to estimate market prices for everyone. But there’s a lot of information the models don’t capture, such as remodeling, and that can affect the market value. So, one house with two bedrooms and two baths might sell for $300,000 and another with the same characteristics might go for $100,000. The mass appraisal models would average the two, and the resulting value of $200,000 would be too low for one house and too high for the other. The housing market crash exacerbated the regressivity problem because the models rely on the previous five years of sales. Sales prior to the crash had been included in the models, driving up the assessor’s estimates for many properties, especially in poorer areas where values had collapsed." Additionally there are a lot of rental properties in the lower value neighborhoods where investors buy homes based on a rental stream, a different metric than the average Joe buying a home and that may contribute to some of the lower priced home being over assessed due to neighborhood averages. Looks like some correction has happened. https://www.loopnorth.com/news/tax0315.htm Edited July 11, 2020 by keepthefaith
Orlando Buffalo Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, keepthefaith said: Yes, I'm aware that Chicago taxes are managed by Cook County which extends outside of the city, but rest assured it's run very integrally to the City. We don't know if taxes are highly regressive from the article. It provides very few data points. Also this excerpt is probably a big part of the explanation. "Regressivity is an inherent problem in mass-appraisal models because they rely on averages. The models take certain characteristics of homes that sold and figure out average values for each one — the price per bathroom, per square foot and so on. Those values are then used to estimate market prices for everyone. But there’s a lot of information the models don’t capture, such as remodeling, and that can affect the market value. So, one house with two bedrooms and two baths might sell for $300,000 and another with the same characteristics might go for $100,000. The mass appraisal models would average the two, and the resulting value of $200,000 would be too low for one house and too high for the other. The housing market crash exacerbated the regressivity problem because the models rely on the previous five years of sales. Sales prior to the crash had been included in the models, driving up the assessor’s estimates for many properties, especially in poorer areas where values had collapsed." Additionally there are a lot of rental properties in the lower value neighborhoods where investors buy homes based on a rental stream, a different metric than the average Joe buying a home and that may contribute to some of the lower priced home being over assessed due to neighborhood averages. Looks like some correction has happened. https://www.loopnorth.com/news/tax0315.htm Taxes are definitely more damaging in more liberal areas and I am a prime example. I paid 2k a year in state and local taxes to NYS when I lived there when I did not own property or make more than 40k a year alone. This year in Florida I own a 300k home, make 120k and pay 2k in local and state taxes. I have owned my property for 17 years and it benefits me.
Cinga Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 7 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: The reasons people get pulled over are varied. How that translates into "real priviledge" for each and every member of one group and "oppression" for each and every member of another group in regard to opportunities for advancement/betterment requires some real intellectual gymnastics. 7 hours ago, IDBillzFan said: I used to get pulled over multiple times a year, and I'm an olive-skinned Italian. Am I supposed to believe there were pulling me over for skin color and not because I was a horrible effin' driver? Hell, I've had long hair in a pony tail, beard, and some people think I look somewhat crazy. I mean, sort of George Carlin crazy, not Jack Nicholson Shining type crazy. Been that way since I got married 30 years ago and the wifey won't let me cut either off..... Anyway, for most of that, I drove pick-ups or fast cars and got pulled over at least 3 times a year. Yeah, stereotyping for sure! Every ticket I ever got was a non-moving violation. Never even a speeding though I deserve one almost every time I get behind the wheel. ? Funny part is, I bought a hybrid three years ago for better gas mileage to and from work. I've passed cops doing 10 or 15 over, and never once been pulled over in that car. Could it be that now, in my CMAX, with the beard and pony tail, I'm viewed differently? But don't worry... I just transferred to only 6 miles from home, so that hybrid will go soon in favor of another pick-up, gun rack and all.... 4 1
Unforgiven Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) Texas A&M race hoax busted — ‘Black student wrote racist messages to himself’… https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/texas-am-race-hoax-busted-black-student-wrote-racist-messages-to-himself/ Another hoax, shocker. This is what the ppp tarts do on this board every day, write racist messages to themselves, LOL. Edited July 11, 2020 by Unforgiven
keepthefaith Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 21 hours ago, LB3 said: The reason that I never get pulled over is the fact that I drive like grandma. I'd pull you over for that or enroll you in the A.D.L. (Anti-destination league). 1
keepthefaith Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 22 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Nobody is denying that racism exists. I would say the racism of 2020 is not the racism of 1990, or 1960, or 1930, etc. I am more than willing to talk about legitimate issues of racism and the idea of "systemic racism" with anyone willing to have an open, honest dialogue. And, although racism has always been intertwined with issues of priviledge, the concept of "white priviledge" and the manner in which it is being used as a means of assessing blame and holding people accountable for sins they didn't commit is ridiculous. Priviledge exists in every society and has always existed in every society based on all kinds of reasons: money, status, employment, sex, race, etc. There is a brutal history in our country regarding the treatment of African Americans. However, our society has evolved since we were first founded as a country. It continues to change for the better. Not as fast as most would like; however, learned behaviors take generations to erase. I would argue that there has been greater improvements for African Americans in this country over the last 50 years than in all the time before that. There is a real dichotomy that exists in this country that, for me, places more blame on philosophies and policies than on racism: African Americans, as individuals, have more opportunities to achieve anything they desire, including to be president of this country, than they have ever had. At the same time, African American communities continue to be mired in poverty, unemployment, high crime, and lack of hope. People can occupy themselves with issues like white priviledge, systemically racist law enforcement agencies, etc., etc., etc.. Meanwhile, African American communities will continue to pay the price for a refusal to engage in honest dialogue and deal with issues that really have an impact Agree. I've posted comments on schools before. Know teachers that live in the affluent burbs and teach in Chicago or other very poor districts. The contrast in how our suburban schools are run and those in the city is stark. City and poor districts have policies of no homework or limited homework because the school leadership feels that their kids have other priorities at home or don't live in homework conducive environments. That's directly from a school superintendent. Also discipline is almost non-existent and behavior in these schools reflects that. The kids get away with just about anything short of murder. Mouth off to teachers in class on a regular basis and say some really awful stuff, abuse other students physically and emotionally, drugs in the schools and on school grounds. When you're a 7th grader and a student of color and the teacher is white and you call the teacher a racist (as I'm told happens frequently and year after year) I'm sorry but that is a learned behavior at that age. That is probably learned at home. The schools let it all go. Rarely a call home to parents, little or no detention, slap on the wrist at most. Also, they have no fail policies. They'll test kids multiple times, allow what little homework is assigned to be ignored and the policy is not to give failing grades. They move them along to the next grade each year and each year the learning deficits for many students gets larger and larger. Parents don't show up to student/teacher conferences on a regular basis. Essentially doing well in school is not prioritized in the home or at school. That''s very very different than in my community. This to me is where the great economic divide in this country starts and it's not unique to black and brown children. White kids who grow up in similar or same environments have the same academic and expectation deficits. Parenting IMO is the greatest difference between what people call good schools and not so good schools. Good or bad, it starts at home. 1 2
HamSandwhich Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 1:00 AM, Rob's House said: Let's call this BLM movement what it really is. Yes, it is a Marxist movement, but the path to Marxism runs through the province of conflict. In this conflict the Bourgeoisie is comprised of those bestowed with "white privilege" and the Proletariat are the minorities oppressed by said privilege. It is noteworthy that the people relentlessly pushing to radicalize minorities with anti white sentiment are the same who gleefully remind us that white people are only a generation or two from being a minority. It seems that their vision of a utopian future is something vaguely resembling South Africa. Obviously, this will not occur overnight. In the interim we will regress to a form of racial discrimination similar to that which we emerged from in the 20th century. Racial identities are becoming prioritized. One's racial grouping is increasingly viewed as a collective consciousness unbroken by time, rather than a successive group of individuals who are separate and distinct from one another. The philosophy of intersectionality dictates that justice is served by attribution of guilt and grievances upon individuals based on group identity, thus holding one individual responsible to another for a debt he did not incur. The following piece details how this is already coming to fruition. https://townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2020/07/10/the-new-systemic-racism-that-is-coming-n2572229 I’ve been making the same comparison after reading the gulag archipelago. Scary times, and most here won’t see it. The struggle sessions they had then are now done in real time on social media. It’s a scary time, and I fear that those who don’t see it, won’t until it’s too late. 1
Tiberius Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said: I’ve been making the same comparison after reading the gulag archipelago. Scary times, and most here won’t see it. The struggle sessions they had then are now done in real time on social media. It’s a scary time, and I fear that those who don’t see it, won’t until it’s too late. Are you considering escaping to another country?
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