The War on Whiteness

[keepthefaith]

5 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The effect of the historical practice is still massive today for a number of reasons. And property taxes in Chicago are still highly regressive, with people on the South and West sides paying taxes way over assessed compared to homeowners on the Northside and corporations. Btw, property taxes are collected by Cook County, not the city of Chicago. https://www.chicagotribune.com/investigations/ct-tax-divide-investigation-20180425-storygallery.html

 

I'll take a look at that. 

[Capco]

2 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

Blacks can move into the suburbs just as easily as whites can. 

 

No, they cannot.  

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Capco said:

 

No, they cannot.  

 

 

And I'm sure that's the fault of white people, right?

 

The rural township I live in (WELL outside of Philadelphia) is like 20-30% black. So, I doubt your intellectual honesty here.

 

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And I'm sure that's the fault of white people, right?

 

 

It's the fault of discriminatory policies that favored white people. 

[Capco]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And I'm sure that's the fault of white people, right?

 

Riddle me this.  If it's not the fault of systemic racism, what is the cause?  

 

If I had to guess, you'd probably say it's the boogeyman that is "the left" that intentionally keeps them locked in poverty to maintain a voting bloc.  Am I right?  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

Riddle me this.  If it's not the fault of systemic racism, what is the cause?  

 

If I had to guess, you'd probably say it's the boogeyman that is "the left" that intentionally keeps them locked in poverty to maintain a voting bloc.  Am I right?  

 

Same reasons there are poor whites (who, not coincidentally outnumber ALL blacks).

 

Individual irresponsibility. Fatherless homes. Addiction. Looking for someone else to lift them out of poverty. Probably in that order.

 

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

It's the fault of discriminatory policies that favored white people. 

 

That haven't existed for nigh on 60 years now.

 

So, no.

 

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

That haven't existed for nigh on 60 years now.

 

So, no.

 

 

That's just not true. Look, Brown vs Board of Education happened in 1954. Most schools in the US weren't desegregated until the 1980's. 

 

The housing, mortgage and loan polices that were deeply discriminatory, and a major reason for the disparity in wealth were in effect well through the 90's. The effects are still massive. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

That's just not true. Look, Brown vs Board of Education happened in 1954. Most schools in the US weren't desegregated until the 1980's. 

 

The housing, mortgage and loan polices that were deeply discriminatory, and a major reason for the disparity in wealth were in effect well through the 90's. The effects are still massive. 

 

I had a real estate license in the 90s. Redlining had been illegal for AT A MINIMUM 15 years prior to that.

 

 

[Capco]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Same reasons there are poor whites (who, not coincidentally outnumber ALL blacks).

 

Individual irresponsibility. Fatherless homes. Addiction. Looking for someone else to lift them out of poverty. Probably in that order.

 

If the system was absolutely fair and equal to every participant, you'd be right.  But I'd also wager that these issues would be much less prevalent in certain minority communities if the system was truly fair and equal to every participant.  

 

Black, brown, white, green, purple.  We are all the same creatures of Mother Nature.  We all have the same God-(I use that term loosely)-given ability to make something of ourselves and be the best individuals that we can be.  I cannot begin to fathom how individual responsibility, fatherless homes, addiction, and looking for a handout are somehow intrinsically linked to not having the average wealth that whites have in lieu of some kind of systemic issues (primarily in the economy).  

 

Just think about it in terms of math.  Like you said there are more white people overall, and more white poor people.  But even with that much weight pulling down the average white wealth, whites STILL have 10x the amount of wealth that blacks have.  

 

That's beyond individual circumstance Joe.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

16 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

No, they cannot.  

 

Why did they decide to lump those with Asian heritage into the other category? Per the census Asians make up 5.6% of the population. ?

 

And more to the point. Urban centers are far from the most affordable places to live in the country.

Edited July 10, 2020 by BuffaloHokie13

[Motorin']

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I had a real estate license in the 90s. Redlining had been illegal for AT A MINIMUM 15 years prior to that.

 

 

 

What about discrimination in lending? 

[Capco]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I had a real estate license in the 90s. Redlining had been illegal for AT A MINIMUM 15 years prior to that.

 

And what about the equity that was built up in those houses over those 15 years and beyond?  How much of an advantage did redlining give whites for generations?  

 

Time value of money.  Having money in the first place makes getting more money even easier.  

Edited July 10, 2020 by Capco

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

No.

 

not a summarization.

 

Just another chance for you to spout your false interpretation of what conservative thought really is.

 

Shameful.

 

What's false about it?   All you supposed "conservatives" claim you're not racists but you not only refuse to acknowledge that Blacks in this country have legitimate grievances against the justice system -- and have had them for decades -- but then you try to legitimize race baiting as "conservative thought".   BULL MANURE!   If the police were stopping and killing white men for the same supposed "offensives" and at the same rate that they've been killing black men for the last two decades, all you white "conservatives" would be up in arms over "police brutality" just like you got your panties in bunches back in the 1990s over Ruby Ridge.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Capco said:

 

And what about the equity that was built up in those houses over those 15 years and beyond?  How much of an advantage did that give whites for generations?  

 

Time value of money.  Having money in the first place makes getting more money even easier.  

Then how do you explain the presence of more poor whites than blacks of ALL social strata COMBINED?

 

IF this "generational wealth" was a product of "systemic racism" then shouldn't there be no poor white people?

 

 

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

What about discrimination in lending? 

 

Lending is inherently discriminatory. It is weighted toward those with money, REGARDLESS of their skin color.

 

[Capco]

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Then how do you explain the presence of more poor whites than blacks of ALL social strata COMBINED?

 

IF this "generational wealth" was a product of "systemic racism" then shouldn't there be no poor white people?

 

No because it's not that absolute or black-and-white (for lack of a better term).  Life has a lot of grey area and this is just another example.  

 

Personally I was supportive of Bernie's platform because his approach was to make the economy work better for everyone, but especially poor people of all colors.  His biggest problem during the primary was that he didn't pander enough to the race ticket in the Democratic party.  

 

I despise an unfair economic system just as much as systemic racism, and it is absolutely true that whites suffer from the unfair economic system we have where the elites get there way while the rest of us lift them up.  But those two things (systemic racism and a rigged economy) can and do co-exist.  

 

You cannot just lift black people out of poverty because of systemic racism while completely ignoring whites in poverty.  That's ***** up and wrong.  Flat out.  It needs to be a comprehensive approach, which means including the discussion of systemic racism with the discussion of our rigged economy.  

Edited July 10, 2020 by Capco

[billsfan1959]

40 minutes ago, Capco said:

Some context for you gentlemen.

 

https://www.wmbfnews.com/2020/06/02/myrtle-beach-homeowner-appliance-technician-share-eye-opening-discussion-about-racism/

 

Nobody is denying that racism exists. I would say the racism of 2020 is not the racism of 1990, or 1960, or 1930, etc. I am more than willing to talk about legitimate issues of racism and the idea of "systemic racism" with anyone willing to have an open, honest dialogue. And, although racism has always been intertwined with issues of priviledge, the concept of "white priviledge" and the manner in which it is being used as a means of assessing blame and holding people accountable for sins they didn't commit is ridiculous.

 

Priviledge exists in every society and has always existed in every society based on all kinds of reasons: money, status, employment, sex, race, etc. 

 

There is a brutal history in our country regarding the treatment of African Americans. However, our society has evolved since we were first founded as a country. It continues to change for the better. Not as fast as most would like; however, learned behaviors take generations to erase. I would argue that there has been greater improvements for African Americans in this country over the last 50 years than in all the time before that.

 

There is a real dichotomy that exists in this country that, for me, places more blame on philosophies and policies than on racism: African Americans, as individuals, have more opportunities to achieve anything they desire, including to be president of this country, than they have ever had. At the same time, African American communities continue to be mired in poverty, unemployment, high crime, and lack of hope. 

 

People can occupy themselves with issues like white priviledge, systemically racist law enforcement agencies, etc., etc., etc..

 

Meanwhile, African American communities will continue to pay the price for a refusal to engage in honest dialogue and deal with issues that really have an impact

Edited July 10, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Then how do you explain the presence of more poor whites than blacks of ALL social strata COMBINED?

 

IF this "generational wealth" was a product of "systemic racism" then shouldn't there be no poor white people?

 

This is an ALL OR NOTHING fallacy... The shooter didn't kill everyone, therefore he didn't kill anyone.  

 

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Lending is inherently discriminatory. It is weighted toward those with money, REGARDLESS of their skin color.

 

 

Except the same industry that practiced redlining did not give the same loans to black people as white people with the same income. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

This is an ALL OR NOTHING fallacy... The shooter didn't kill everyone, therefore he didn't kill anyone.  

 

 

oooooor, it's an indicator of the fact that individuals are by and large responsible for their own outcomes rather than some boogeyman.

 

[Capco]

4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Nobody is denying that racism exists. I would say the racism of 2020 is not the racism of 1990, or 1960, or 1930, etc. I am more than willing to talk about legitimate issues of racism and the idea of "systemic racism" with anyone willing to have an open, honest dialogue. And, although racism has always been intertwined with issues of priviledge, the concept of "white priviledge" and the manner in which it is being used as a means of assessing blame and holding people accountable for sins they didn't commit is ridiculous.

 

Priviledge exists in every society and has always existed in every society based on all kinds of reasons: money, status, employment, sex, race, etc. 

 

There is a brutal history in our country regarding the treatment of African Americans. However, our society has evolved since we were first founded as a country. It continues to change for the better. Not as fast as most would like; however, learned behaviors take generations to erase. I would argue that there has been greater improvements for African Americans in this country over the last 50 years than in all the time before that.

 

There is a real dichotomy that exists in this country that, for me, places more blame on philosophies and policies than on racism: African Americans, as individuals, have more opportunities to achieve anything they desire, including to be president of this country, than they have ever had. At the same time, African American communities continue to be mired in poverty, unemployment, high crime, and lack of hope. 

 

People can occupy themselves with issues like white priviledge, systemically racist law enforcement agencies, etc., etc., etc..

 

Meanwhile, African American communities will continue to pay the price for a refusal to engage in honest dialogue and deal with issues that really have an impact

 

Thank you for another good contribution.  Very solid post.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

16 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

You cannot just lift black people out of poverty because of systemic racism while completely ignoring whites in poverty.  That's ***** up and wrong.  Flat out.  It needs to be a comprehensive approach, which means including the discussion of systemic racism with the discussion of our rigged economy.  

 

See, now if your argument was we have an inherently unfair or corrupt economic system, you may find me in agreement. If you're trying to sell me on white privilege, white fragility, or systemic racism, good luck.