Jauronimo Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 11 minutes ago, Chris farley said: I got you at the first sentence. then couldn't keep up with all the strawmen. But ask those same people how they liked the Crenshaw books. What strawmen? A strawman is arguing a false point. A comparison of actual MSM talking points versus salient discussions that could be had instead is not a strawman. Whatabout Crenshaw books was on brand.
Tommy Callahan Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: What strawmen? A strawman is arguing a false point. A comparison of actual MSM talking points versus salient discussions that could be had instead is not a strawman. Whatabout Crenshaw books was on brand. The three you put in the body of your reply. "What about Crenshaw books was on brand."? Sorry, I have no clue what that means. I was implying that most of the people you said dont know what CRT is, have probably read at least one crenshaw books.
Jauronimo Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Chris farley said: The three you put in the body of your reply. "What about Crenshaw books was on brand."? Sorry, I have no clue what that means. I was implying that most of the people you said dont know what CRT is, have probably read at least one crenshaw books. In addition to "on brand" you seem confused by what a strawman is. Here are looney examples of what discussion points are picked up by the media under the guise of social justice, CRT, LGBT, and a host of other isms that make you uncomfortable. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/misinformation/urban-myth-litter-boxes-schools-became-gop-talking-point-rcna51439 https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/04/22/transgender-child-sports-treatments/ Public debates on whether books written by white men are racist, names of hurricanes are racist, and all the other nonsense that captures so much attention here and in the media is all noise meant to distract you. Here are actual things worth discussing that are great examples of the relevance of CRT. Before the inevitable reply that attacks the source, I can assure you that there is no shortage of studies conducted that illustrate that systems that are 100% color blind still produce outcomes consistent with overt racial bias. Please find one that you are comfortable with. Exploration of these topics and what causes these outcomes is the conversation worth having and not bickering about whether all literature written by white men should be removed from public education. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-29/job-applicants-with-black-names-still-less-likely-to-get-the-interview#xj4y7vzkg https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/publications/racial-disparity-sentencing https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/141027_iachr_racial_disparities_aclu_submission_0.pdf 1
T master Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 3 hours ago, redtail hawk said: FED Notes Twitter Share RSS October 22, 2021 Wealth Inequality and the Racial Wealth Gap Aditya Aladangady, and Akila Forde In the United States, the average Black and Hispanic or Latino households earn about half as much as the average White household and own only about 15 to 20 percent as much net wealth Do you believe this happened spontaneously or through programs designed to disadvantage minority groups? If there is a war on whiteness, there's a pretty strong counteroffensive. I'm not for sure as far as the numbers that you put up go but i do know that some in those groups just like in the group of whites are in some cases just lazy which seems to be a growing contingent of people over all than when i was a young person & want to talk advantages of Reparations & such rather than work for a living . Then there are those that have been taught by politicians mostly that give everything away to some to fleece the system in that way . Meaning that i had a personal situation when myself & my daughters mother broke up & i was paying child support amongst other things, my Ex while working a full time job still had a tough time making ends meet so she went for "ASSISTANCE" which she was told that she made to much money to qualify of assistance . But right after that the lady told her if she were to quit her job completely that they would pay her rent, electric, food stamps, health insurance & the rest so how many are out there doing just that ? The gov't uses NO common sense in most every thing they do . Wouldn't it be smarter to give "Assistance" say for $200 a month to that person & have them continue to work & paying taxes in rather than tell them to quit ? But that's the gov't for you . So out of the numbers that you put up how many of those do just that ? I have family members that do that & if i turn them in and they do a investigation & my family members find out and make plans while the investigation is on going to actually separate (because they say they are legally separated to get their bills paid) after the conclusion of said investigation & they dupe the SS workers the SS workers can have me arrested for supposedly falsifying a claim & put me in jail . Now there's some justice for you once again the exact opposite happens the bad guy comes out on top . But to directly answer your question I believe it's both some programs bring out the lazy to take advantage of the system probably more than we know some just are full of hate & feel they are owed for something that happened almost 200 yrs ago but sorry GET OVER IT !! Oh then there are those that see by selling drugs they can make more money to so that probably has input into the question . Time to put your big boy pants big girl panties on suck it up & go look for a real job . But that's just a old guys take that was brought up with some self respect . 1
T master Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Jauronimo said: If you want those things, you would have those things. There is nothing stopping you and all the other aggrieved who earnestly believe that White History is under represented in schools and White people have a painful history of marginalization in this country from launching these initiatives. Despite the hand wringing I have seen no action. Seems like these "ideas" more valuable as cheap talking points then they are as realities. Your correct there is nothing stopping those that would want that which i am not one of i was just posing a question . And if given a truthful answer if a bunch of white billionaires got together & made a WET TV network there would be a uproar like no other . For god sake the players in football & basketball have referenced white owners of teams as nothing more the slave owners even though they are making MILLIONS of dollars & NO ONE is MAKING them play the game it is their free will to do so yet if something even slightly goes against what they think it automatically goes back to that subject . So if you think that if the things that i asked about would not be met with any type of up roar we will just have to as usual disagree ... Oh how's my spelling by the way ?? I know my punctuation sucks though ... 2
Jauronimo Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 Just now, T master said: Your correct there is nothing stopping those that would want that which i am not one of i was just posing a question . And if given a truthful answer if a bunch of white billionaires got together & made a WET TV network there would be a uproar like no other . For god sake the players in football & basketball have referenced white owners of teams as nothing more the slave owners even though they are making MILLIONS of dollars & NO ONE is MAKING them play the game it is their free will to do so yet if something even slightly goes against what they think it automatically goes back to that subject . So if you think that if the things that i asked about would not be met with any type of up roar we will just have to as usual disagree ... Oh how's my spelling by the way ?? I know my punctuation sucks though ... There is uproar about everything these days. It doesn't stop anyone from doing things they consider to be important or things that have widespread support. Do you think white people are under represented in the mainstream media and there is a real market opportunity here? 1
Pokebball Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: In addition to "on brand" you seem confused by what a strawman is. Here are looney examples of what discussion points are picked up by the media under the guise of social justice, CRT, LGBT, and a host of other isms that make you uncomfortable. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/misinformation/urban-myth-litter-boxes-schools-became-gop-talking-point-rcna51439 https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/04/22/transgender-child-sports-treatments/ Public debates on whether books written by white men are racist, names of hurricanes are racist, and all the other nonsense that captures so much attention here and in the media is all noise meant to distract you. Here are actual things worth discussing that are great examples of the relevance of CRT. Before the inevitable reply that attacks the source, I can assure you that there is no shortage of studies conducted that illustrate that systems that are 100% color blind still produce outcomes consistent with overt racial bias. Please find one that you are comfortable with. Exploration of these topics and what causes these outcomes is the conversation worth having and not bickering about whether all literature written by white men should be removed from public education. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-29/job-applicants-with-black-names-still-less-likely-to-get-the-interview#xj4y7vzkg https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/publications/racial-disparity-sentencing https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/141027_iachr_racial_disparities_aclu_submission_0.pdf I don't understand why you want to take the examples you've provided, which admittedly are bad and shouldn't be happening and use those events to teach our first graders to despise and even hate each other. I think teaching them to love each other and to treat each other fairly, regardless of their race, religion, etc. is the correct way. Our human history is full of clans treating other clans poorly. The education we need to provide our children is to not treat others different by focusing on some difference, but to rather focus on the greater commonalities of our human race. Focusing on the differences is what breads the extremisms you mentioned. Provide the history, but provide it in a way that brings our younger, current generation together rather than segregating them. Or, do some of us want them segregated?
Jauronimo Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 Just now, Pokebball said: I don't understand why you want to take the examples you've provided, which admittedly are bad and shouldn't be happening and use those events to teach our first graders to despise and even hate each other. I think teaching them to love each other and to treat each other fairly, regardless of their race, religion, etc. is the correct way. Our human history is full of clans treating other clans poorly. The education we need to provide our children is to not treat others different by focusing on some difference, but to rather focus on the greater commonalities of our human race. Focusing on the differences is what breads the extremisms you mentioned. Provide the history, but provide it in a way that brings our younger, current generation together rather than segregating them. Or, do some of us want them segregated? What in the ***** are you even talking about? @Chris farley the bolded above; THAT is a strawman. What John in Riverside said to you earlier is a strawman. 1 1
Pokebball Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: There is uproar about everything these days. It doesn't stop anyone from doing things they consider to be important or things that have widespread support. Do you think white people are under represented in the mainstream media and there is a real market opportunity here? The point wasn't whether rich whites were being stopped, was it? The point was what the reaction by others would be. I think he's correct in the point he's making. 1
Jauronimo Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 Just now, Pokebball said: The point wasn't whether rich whites were being stopped, was it? The point was what the reaction by others would be. I think he's correct in the point he's making. That does not surprise me. 1
Pokebball Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 Just now, Jauronimo said: What in the ***** are you even talking about? @Chris farley the bolded above; THAT is a strawman. What John in Riverside said to you earlier is a strawman. Feigned ignorance isn't helping your argument. 2
Tommy Callahan Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: What in the ***** are you even talking about? @Chris farley the bolded above; THAT is a strawman. What John in Riverside said to you earlier is a strawman. I simply asked if whitewashing happened, is blackwashing fixing the problem. This is a list of strawmen in your reply. "One of the biggest problems is the discussion is dominated by the relatively sane debating the extremists on both sides rather than the relatively sane engaging with each other. That is how you wind up thinking that the ramblings from 5 batshit twitter accounts is an actual mainstream belief. That is how you wind up talking about cat litter boxes in bathrooms rather than why our legal system which is color blind on paper can still produce results that are consistent with racial bias. That is how you wind up talking about whether 7 year olds should have the right to gender reassignment surgery rather than why two resumes, identical in every way except for the name at the top, can receive radically different response rates from prospective employers." Then more links to MSM and other sites talking about topics that again where not what I asked in the follow up. Edited May 16, 2023 by Chris farley 1
Pokebball Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chris farley said: I simply asked if whitewashing happened, is blackwashing fixing the problem. This is a list of strawmen in your reply. "One of the biggest problems is the discussion is dominated by the relatively sane debating the extremists on both sides rather than the relatively sane engaging with each other. That is how you wind up thinking that the ramblings from 5 batshit twitter accounts is an actual mainstream belief. That is how you wind up talking about cat litter boxes in bathrooms rather than why our legal system which is color blind on paper can still produce results that are consistent with racial bias. That is how you wind up talking about whether 7 year olds should have the right to gender reassignment surgery rather than why two resumes, identical in every way except for the name at the top, can receive radically different response rates from prospective employers." Then more links to MSM and other sites talking about topics that again where not what I asked in the follow up. He's saying he's part of the calm, rational, relatively sane voice on this issue and then quickly showing us he isn't. 9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: That does not surprise me. You didn't even pivot, you travelled, and got called out on it. 1
Tommy Callahan Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Pokebball said: He's saying he's part of the calm, rational, relatively sane voice on this issue and then quickly showing us he isn't. You didn't even pivot, you travelled, and got called out on it. I never went to school for, or worked in marketing. but I would imagine that you reach more of an audience by trying to reach/represent all demos. Not one and pissing off the rest. people just make little things into huge issues anymore Edited May 16, 2023 by Chris farley 1
Jauronimo Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Feigned ignorance isn't helping your argument. Cite where I said anything even remotely like teaching kindergartners to despise each other. So wildly out of the blue that I have no clue what you were reading. 9 minutes ago, Chris farley said: I simply asked if whitewashing happened, is blackwashing fixing the problem. This is a list of strawmen in your reply. "One of the biggest problems is the discussion is dominated by the relatively sane debating the extremists on both sides rather than the relatively sane engaging with each other. That is how you wind up thinking that the ramblings from 5 batshit twitter accounts is an actual mainstream belief. That is how you wind up talking about cat litter boxes in bathrooms rather than why our legal system which is color blind on paper can still produce results that are consistent with racial bias. That is how you wind up talking about whether 7 year olds should have the right to gender reassignment surgery rather than why two resumes, identical in every way except for the name at the top, can receive radically different response rates from prospective employers." Then more links to MSM and other sites talking about topics that again where not what I asked in the follow up. You don't know what a strawman is but you do like using the word. I have highlighted some examples for you in crayon. You don't seem to understand how a discussion works either but you have reached your typical point where you realize that you're in over your head and you've taken your ball and gone home. I look forward to all the passive aggressive emojis to follow. 1
Tommy Callahan Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 Reply with strawmen to change the subject, then attempt ad hominem to prove the script. its so boring, generic. 1
Pokebball Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Cite where I said anything even remotely like teaching kindergartners to despise each other. So wildly out of the blue that I have no clue what you were reading. You don't know what a strawman is but you do like using the word. I have highlighted some examples for you in crayon. I never said that you said this. 1
Jauronimo Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: I never said that you said this. Quote I don't understand why you want to take the examples you've provided, which admittedly are bad and shouldn't be happening and use those events to teach our first graders to despise and even hate each other. You did. Direct quote. If you don't understand what I have said and you don't understand what you have said, any type of meaningful dialogue is going to be difficult.
Pokebball Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: You did. Direct quote. If you don't understand what I have said and you don't understand what you have said, any type of meaningful dialogue is going to be difficult. You quoted me wrong, but that's not the issue. It's you wanting to take things down some stupid, different, rabbit hole, like arguing the definition of strawman. I'm not playing. And my last post with you is this. I think you have an extremely weak idea of what is really happing in our schools. You can google it, you can search for it on youtube, etc. There are examples after examples after examples of teachers and parents raising these issues across the nation. You can ignore all of them. You can toss a claim of all of this feedback being an attack on history, which it most clearly isn't. Your responses are canned responses, right out of the extremists views on this issue. You appear to believe that you are a part of the enlightened, theoretical, intellectual class on CRT. IMO, you have little to know idea on how to raise and educate our children. I guess all I can say in closing is that we'll have to agree to disagree.
Jauronimo Posted May 16, 2023 Posted May 16, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Pokebball said: You quoted me wrong, but that's not the issue. It's you wanting to take things down some stupid, different, rabbit hole, like arguing the definition of strawman. I'm not playing. And my last post with you is this. I think you have an extremely weak idea of what is really happing in our schools. You can google it, you can search for it on youtube, etc. There are examples after examples after examples of teachers and parents raising these issues across the nation. You can ignore all of them. You can toss a claim of all of this feedback being an attack on history, which it most clearly isn't. Your responses are canned responses, right out of the extremists views on this issue. You appear to believe that you are a part of the enlightened, theoretical, intellectual class on CRT. IMO, you have little to know idea on how to raise and educate our children. I guess all I can say in closing is that we'll have to agree to disagree. By quoted you wrong do you mean copied and pasted? 24 minutes ago, Chris farley said: Reply with strawmen to change the subject, then attempt ad hominem to prove the script. its so boring, generic. Missing points and calling everything you don't understand a strawman is a real exciting script. One of us tried to have an adult discussion against my better judgement and you have offered nothing but repeating the term strawman. And I wasn't even f@#$ing arguing with you. Pendulum swings, reaction and over reaction. Of course "blackwashing" is not a solution. Does that question really need to be dignified with a response? I assumed it was rhetorical, like anyone with a firm grasp on the language and issue would. Then I shared my own two cents about the issues with the discourse on these topics as denoted by formation of a new paragraph. Sound bytes instead over substance was the gist. Debating the fringe rather than discussing real issues as they relate to CRT. You called that a strawman. So I provided examples, giving you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you felt I invented the narratives that have received public attention. So I more carefully laid out my views. "Strawman" he said, failing to engage with any points raised. Now some new moron has entered the ring swinging steel chairs about how I want to teach kindergartners to hate each other and he demands my attention. Ironically, its a clear cut example of a strawman as he is knocking down an argument of his own construction which he has attributed to me. And thats the difference. I made a point independent of and in addition to your point. And thats how discussions progress. I am at least glad you two have made a friend out of all this. Edited May 16, 2023 by Jauronimo 1
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