Doc Brown Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Chef Jim said: Ding ding ding. I knew the unions would chime in. ***** the unions. Which come in the morning and which in the afternoon and evening? I don’t know. By height. Come on man. Figure it out. How do working parents adjust? They’ll figure it out. They’ve adjusted to it the past four months of having the kids home every day. We’ve offered FMLA for our working parents to help out. Bus routes? Easy one! Hired more drivers. The Trump economy has 15 billion people looking for work. Where are we coming up with the money? Ask the Feds. They seem to be good at printing it up. How much PPP has these districts applied for? I’m sure they are eligible. To the teachers here. How many meetings have you all had over the last four months discussing these things. Again I’m not hearing a lot of ideas. Just excuses. Where did I deflect? I'm not a teacher/administrator but I want to get your plan correct so there's no confusion. Then I'll tell you what our district came up with. -Ten kids get three four hours of instruction a day six days a week. -The students get assigned morning, afternoon, or nights based on their heights. Free babysitting services provided for parents. -Teachers work 12 hour shifts six days a week. I assume on their day off they'll have to grade papers and complete lesson plans for the next six days. -To cover the six bus routes under your plan the district will have to hire more drivers. -To cover the extra 32 hours of overtime for teachers, the increased bus drivers, and babysitter personnel the federal government will cover the extra expenses through the paycheck protection program (which they can't currently apply for because they're not a private business). Also, unions are abolished. Did I get anything wrong?
transplantbillsfan Posted July 13, 2020 Author Posted July 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Paulus said: How about smaller class sizes? Better education for the kids. Limits exposure to viruses and sickness. Addressing a few problems at once. Ooooooohhhhh that'd be fantastic! 5 hours ago, Chef Jim said: Well smaller class size is easier said than done long term. Short term stagger the classes and work longer hours more days. Good idea. I'm willing to do it. Just pay me for my extra hours and extra work 1
transplantbillsfan Posted July 13, 2020 Author Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Chef Jim said: As a suggestion sure. At least more hours/shifts than now. If that’s what needs to be done to get the kids back to the most important part of their lives. I’ve heard no one else come up with solutions/ideas. You haven't heard this come up with publicly because it's not feasible. You're going to have to pay for these extra hours. You seem wildly clueless on this. 5 hours ago, Chef Jim said: I work 10 hours a day no breaks and stand at my desk for 9 of those. If I needed to do 6 12’s for the good of the community you damn better believe I’m doing it. They should be well rested. ? Was waiting for it... there it is I'm still waiting on what you do for a living. I'm guessing you stand at your desk by choice because you have one of those standing desks since sitting is apparently the new smoking. You're full of so much goddamn hot air it's ridiculous. 5 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Transplant I first want to address something you wrote the other day- I try to stay away from name calling and acting like those who disagree are evil, if I do that to you it is because you seem very negative on here. I though want to say also I appreciate a good honest debate. On what you have written above I do not see when you will open schools in your plan until we have a vaccine. I think parents need to have an option and it is up to them whether it is safe. Then you clearly haven't been paying attention. If you think I'm being negative, maybe you should recognize the situation our Country is currently in. But I did NOT say don't open schools without a vaccine. If you appreciate a good honest debate, at least pay attention to what I've said. I'm so sick of the binary choices you guys limit yourselves to in this forum. Edited July 13, 2020 by transplantbillsfan 1 1 1
transplantbillsfan Posted July 13, 2020 Author Posted July 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Paulus said: From the police forces' budgets... yuk yuk yuk.. Seriously, it is something that should have been done decades ago. Using this pandemic to create something good and also a compromise, is worth a shot. You'd think with the unemployment numbers, getting adequate instructors at bargain barrel prices would be a thing. Honestly, moving money towards education, in a responsible way, is something rarely achieved by government. "Adequate instructors at bargain barrel prices." Honestly you guys amaze me. With education as a whole, much like with everything else in life in general: You get what you pay for 5 hours ago, Paulus said: Certain students go mon/wed while others go tue/thurs... staggering makes sense. Whatever the process chosen is, i hope the wade into the pool slowly, this time. Bingo. This is what is and will happen. In other words: It's not students going fully back to school. And bigger schools like mine are staggering it so they come once every 4 classes rather than 2. 5 hours ago, Chef Jim said: Well after a cursory search online it looks like 40-50 hours a week or when I worked in the kitchen what we called “part-time” ?. And what does what I do for a living have to do with this conversation? Because you're using what happened in your workplace as an argument for why teachers need to go fully back to work. 1
Paulus Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: "Adequate instructors at bargain barrel prices." Honestly you guys amaze me. With education as a whole, much like with everything else in life in general: You get what you pay for Bingo. This is what is and will happen. In other words: It's not students going fully back to school. And bigger schools like mine are staggering it so they come once every 4 classes rather than 2. Because you're using what happened in your workplace as an argument for why teachers need to go fully back to work. Certainly, you get the humor in the comment. Its funny because its true. I personally think some teachers are way overpaid and some way underpaid. But, that is an differentconversation. However, there are people who use situations like these to cut employees and their salaries, while calling it leveraging.
transplantbillsfan Posted July 13, 2020 Author Posted July 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Chef Jim said: Who said what they did was part time? Reading comprehension problems? My perspective is from management 101. Guessing you never got beyond that... 5 hours ago, Paulus said: That said, smaller class size would also mean teachers would have less work, so I wouldn't have to hear them whine about being overworked and underpaid. This way, they'll just be underpaid. Massive watering down of the education system is what you're essentially proposing. You realize that, right? Instead of mostly highly qualified teachers your asking for mostly semi-qualified teachers. And that's better to you because all those semi qualified teachers will have smaller classes? Man, you guys really are clueless. 1
Paulus Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Guessing you never got beyond that... Massive watering down of the education system is what you're essentially proposing. You realize that, right? Instead of mostly highly qualified teachers your asking for mostly semi-qualified teachers. And that's better to you because all those semi qualified teachers will have smaller classes? Man, you guys really are clueless. That is a ridiculous conclusion. You're just being contrarian. Wattering down a fountain or a fire department. There is just some level of expertise not needed to put out a fire or to read books to kids. At some point 2 discount teachers are far superior than 1 regular priced teacher. Their ceilings are not that high until they teach at college, tbh. Hiring more will make education worse? Maybe, it'll free current teachers time, so they can do a better job. Further, the vast majority of teachers I have seen are complete boobs. I literally had no idea how utterly moronic grade school teachers were until my little one started school a few years ago. It amazes me how some of them ever got jobs, let alone have the nerve to leave the house. Lastly, if they are already underpaid, then we are not watering down crap, as the free market has already dictated their station. Nope, hiring more teachers and capping class sizes, for "Covid" would be great, as people may freak out when they go to lay those teachers off in a year or more. Itll hopefully keep the classroom sizes smaller. Its a classic win, win, win type of scenario. Edited July 13, 2020 by Paulus
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 Abolish public schools. We’ve done just fine without them that past several months, Families and communities are adapting.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Ooooooohhhhh that'd be fantastic! Good idea. I'm willing to do it. Just pay me for my extra hours and extra work Considering you're already paid a twelve month salary for nine months of work, I think we're good.
billsfan1959 Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Wait, we're teachers. Now we're health providers and potential arts and crafts experts, too? Well, why don't we just defund the education system and take some of those responsibilities away from you? From what I hear, defunding means to help you. 4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Instead of mostly highly qualified teachers your asking for mostly semi-qualified teachers. While we are at it, we can do away with the teachers union. That way, we can get rid of all those semi-qualified or just bad teachers. Then we can improve training statndards to make teachers better at doing their jobs. But, most of all, we need to address the systemic racism in the teaching profession since minorities are disproportionately represented in poor performance metrics. Your party seems to think these are the answers to law enforcement. I don't know why it shouldn't be the same for the education system. Edited July 13, 2020 by billsfan1959 1
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 11:29 PM, transplantbillsfan said: I don't know if you're being disingenuous or if you're just unaware of the wide public sentiment that one of the biggest reasons Trump & Co are pushing so hard for kids to go FULLY back to school IN THE CLASSROOM is for the sake of the economy and childcare most parents can't otherwise afford. I'm a teacher and education is MY #1 priority, but if education were the #1 priority for everyone including this Administration all along, they would have used the MONTHS we've had now to be sure every child has access to a device of some sort along with Internet and would have required teachers across the country to participate in multiple distance learning Professional Development workshops because we're very clearly going to have at least some form of distance learning. So you're admitting that it is about what people think Trump's reasons are? The fact of the matter is that kids have gone to schools to learn for a very long time. A benefit of this is absolutely that the parents, especially single parents, are able to go to work without employing someone to watch them. My job is civil engineering and stormwater management. I design bioretention facilities, green roofs, utilities, roads, etc. A benefit to my designs is that sewage backs up into houses less during storms. I don't tell people that I keep ***** out of their basement for a living though. Did you consider your job babysitting before the pandemic? Did it take a pandemic for you to realize that you doing your job passively allows other people to do theirs? Saying everyone should get a device and internet sounds nice, but it isn't really feasible. Especially when you factor in timeline, as you're likely talking about communications infrastructure overhaul. Generally speaking, the most realistic way to do that would be to have facilities equipped with devices and internet that children of need could access. But then you'd need supervision, and schools already exist. Every other working profession is, and has been, talking about how to continue working or restart work. Many important jobs simply cannot be done remotely. Maybe you should focus less on what you think Trump’s motives are and more on solutions. All you've done is shoot down ideas with no input whatsoever on alternatives. 1
SoCal Deek Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 The sad part of the Go Back to School discussion is how tone deaf the teachers appear to be that they’re needed as more than educators by a good portion of America. Whether they realize it or not, they’re counted on to watch people’s children when parents are at work! The schools have to open so parents can make a living. This has got to be devastating to lower class working Americans.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Paulus said: Nope, hiring more teachers and capping class sizes, for "Covid" would be great, as people may freak out when they go to lay those teachers off in a year or more. Itll hopefully keep the classroom sizes smaller. Its a classic win, win, win type of scenario. The qualifications could legitimately just be that they understand the lesson and can maintain order in the room. The lesson can be filmed and broadcast to multiple rooms at once from the 'qualified' educator. We had a professor at my College whose classes were live in the auditorium and simulcast to 5 other rooms across campus. Supervisor would just need to be able to facilitate the lesson within their room.
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 I think secondary schools have unique challenges such as busing, small kids wearing masks, etc. I teach part time at a small college and they are going to have white boards available outside. I wonder if elementary schools and junior/senior high schools could do something similar, maybe spread classes into gyms and such or outside, although I recognize doing so would be a challenge especially with the younger elementary school kids.
Tiberius Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I think secondary schools have unique challenges such as busing, small kids wearing masks, etc. I teach part time at a small college and they are going to have white boards available outside. I wonder if elementary schools and junior/senior high schools could do something similar, maybe spread classes into gyms and such or outside, although I recognize doing so would be a challenge especially with the younger elementary school kids. Tents on fields, gyms, etc. Maybe NY should open earlier and then close around Nov 1 for a few months. 1
Chef Jim Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Doc Brown said: I'm not a teacher/administrator but I want to get your plan correct so there's no confusion. Then I'll tell you what our district came up with. -Ten kids get three four hours of instruction a day six days a week. -The students get assigned morning, afternoon, or nights based on their heights. Free babysitting services provided for parents. -Teachers work 12 hour shifts six days a week. I assume on their day off they'll have to grade papers and complete lesson plans for the next six days. -To cover the six bus routes under your plan the district will have to hire more drivers. -To cover the extra 32 hours of overtime for teachers, the increased bus drivers, and babysitter personnel the federal government will cover the extra expenses through the paycheck protection program (which they can't currently apply for because they're not a private business). Also, unions are abolished. Did I get anything wrong? Yes you did. Never said abolish the Unions. And go to the fed for help in any way possible including PPP but looks like only private and charter schools can apply for PPP.
Chef Jim Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Agreed, He has no clue, but I'll address it anyway. Nice thought. Again, if we could ignore parents and their complaints and wishes, believe me teachers would be much happier in their profession. Parents are often stupid, plain and simple. Unfortunately, as the previous poster stated... pigeon the sky brah. Wait, we're teachers. Now we're health providers and potential arts and crafts experts, too? Pie in the sky... This sounds like your job accommodated you and your coworkers quite well, maybe you should consider that teachers should be accommodated similarly. No every desk. Kids aren't immune and the moment there's a Coronavirus sickness, hospitalization or death, all hell breaks loose. And yes, kids get sick, too. Oooooooooohhhhhhhhh!!!! Yeah you're wonderful freedom has been lookin really promising. 362 deaths in a 4 day span that ended July 11th. Yeah, you're definitely living in the region the rest of the Country should be looking towards At least at this point you clearly establish you're either being sarcastic or you're a moron. And just to let you know, I sincerely think there's a 50/50 chance you're one of these 2 things and I truly hope it's the former. Sarcastic it is. No not excuses. Look back in this thread. I said I think my school has the right idea for a model of how to start school. However, much to the chagrin of you and others here, it involves a combination of in school learning and distance learning to start the year. This is especially a necessity for schools with larger student bodies. So whatever misery you're suffering under, I hope you can actually understand some of the complexities of this issue and that it's not teachers who have been the ones creating the plans, it's administrations and, unfortunately, politicians. I think I've placated you enough at this point. I never said it would be easy. It is complex. Doesn’t mean things can’t be tried. You have an excuse and “we can’t do that” for everything. Have you thought of a solution for ANYTHING? So ***** it. ***** the kids. Sit on your ass until we have a vaccine which could be a long time. At least I’m thinking about solutions. The old saying old goes whether you think you can or can’t you’re right. I’ve not read all your rebuttals so you may have addressed this. But how many hours over the past four months have you spent working on solutions! 23 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Tents on fields, gyms, etc. Maybe NY should open earlier and then close around Nov 1 for a few months. I was thinking about tents on the fields. Get the communities involved. We can have churches go build schools in poor countries but hwe can’t do anything here?? Oh and this quote? What the hell are you talking about? OC has had a total of 423 dear has since this started. 362 deaths in a 4 day span that ended July 11th. Yeah, you're definitely living in the region the rest of the Country should be looking towards Edited July 13, 2020 by Chef Jim
Orlando Buffalo Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: You haven't heard this come up with publicly because it's not feasible. You're going to have to pay for these extra hours. You seem wildly clueless on this. Was waiting for it... there it is I'm still waiting on what you do for a living. I'm guessing you stand at your desk by choice because you have one of those standing desks since sitting is apparently the new smoking. You're full of so much goddamn hot air it's ridiculous. Then you clearly haven't been paying attention. If you think I'm being negative, maybe you should recognize the situation our Country is currently in. But I did NOT say don't open schools without a vaccine. If you appreciate a good honest debate, at least pay attention to what I've said. I'm so sick of the binary choices you guys limit yourselves to in this forum. I have not read every word of this thread but I went through several of your longer tirades and did not read one suggestion on how to open the school realistically without a huge jump in cost. Also please stop picking on the liberal areas of Florida since they are already our embarrassment. The liberal areas are not capable of social distancing or wearing masks properly, while the rest of the state is doing well.
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