MJS Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Mark80 said: He did not throw for 5,000 yards. He threw for 4,900. At it was the first time he went over 4,000. The criteria is actually winning more than 1 playoff game. The criteria is actually making the playoffs when you are in the worst division in football. The criteria is winning some big games which they consistently fall short in. The criteria is not getting absolutely smoked by the Bills on Thanksgiving day at home. Especially when your team is absolutely LOADED on the offensive side of the ball. He's a mid-level QB that is only able to put up those stats because of his surrounding cast, not because of his true talent level. I'm taking 3 or 4 guys ahead of him in that secondary list. Hmm. I think Dak is a top 10 QB. He's not like hall of fame caliber or anything, but he's pretty good. He needs talent around him (and he has it) and he isn't clutch and doesn't have that gamer instinct, but he's solid. He had a little bit of an off year his second year and I think that's when a lot of people soured on him, but last year he had a pretty dang good year. I bet there are a lot of coaches around the league that would be thrilled to have him as their QB. 1
Don Otreply Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 10 hours ago, Mark80 said: Dak is so overrated. Surrounded by elite talent and still can't get it done. Couldn't even win by far the worst division in the league last year. Stat monster, but not a winner. At least Stafford has an excuse for losing. How does a guy who leads his team to 9-7 and no playoffs get ranked in the top ten? He has been up and down over the last four years, like you said, big on personal stats but one playoff win with all that talent doesn’t make a top ten QB. I wonder how much Jurra gave up for that bit of propaganda...
JakeFrommStateFarm Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 I would put Philip Rivers in that list somewhere
dlonce Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 11 hours ago, dneveu said: Their offense led the NFL in yardage a year ago, he threw for 5000 30/11 while completing 65% of passes. Yes the team has good players around him, but what is the criteria here? I guess, if it’s based on stats. Its a stats based world today. Dak just doesn’t exhume fear. He looks average to me. Tannehill even getting a vote is a joke, but of course it’s based on his last year statistically. Having a 65% accuracy rating isn’t all that much different than being in the upper 50s. Way too much emphasis on percentages. Darnold received a vote? Lol. He’s in the same league as Allen right now, except Allen’s team won a few more games. Allen was in the playoffs. You can all have your stats.
CSBill Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 18 hours ago, DCOrange said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29394204/ranking-nfl-top-10-qbs-2020-follows-patrick-mahomes Edit: To be clear, they're ranking QBs as they expect them to be in 2020. Not trying to project them 5 years out or anything like that (but in the case of Darnold for example, the guy that voted for him said that he expects him to take a leap this year). The Top 10: Patrick Mahomes Russell Wilson Aaron Rodgers Deshaun Watson Drew Brees Lamar Jackson Tom Brady Carson Wentz Dak Prescott Matt Stafford Also receiving votes: Matt Ryan - 14 votes out of 50 voters Ben Roethlisberger - 8 votes Kyler Murray - 5 votes Kirk Cousins - 2 votes Jimmy Garoppolo - 2 votes Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold - 1 vote each Matt Ryan doesn't get the credit he deserves. For example, what has Dak Prescott done better than him? 1
GunnerBill Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, CSBill said: Matt Ryan doesn't get the credit he deserves. For example, what has Dak Prescott done better than him? Matt Ryan is a top 10 QB. He is definitely too low. It is Wentz who I would take out though.
DCofNC Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 20 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: JA, with no votes at all, wasn't even in the top half of NFL starting quarterbacks. It's good to know, though, that games aren't played in the imaginations of a motley assembly of fifty or so NFL employees. The voters included NFL scouts. Scouts are experts in college football. I wonder how well they keep up with the development of professional players. The voters also include NFL players. So I wonder how much does a special teamer from the Saints know about AFCE quarterbacks. The voters also include NFL execs. And here I wonder how much the VP of Communications in Seattle knows about Josh Allen. Just because a guy has a job in the NFL doesn't mean he has an expert, comprehensive knowledge of all the players and can accurately project their play in 2020. I have said it here before and just to make sure it’s heard, outside of Buffalo, Allen is still looked at for what he is, a project. He’s not even in the conversation for top 10, it’s not even close. He’s right where Turbiski was after year 2, the team won mostly inspire of him, with a handful of wow plays. If you aren’t blinded by Buffalhope, then you see it. Everyone here claiming Dak sucks because he has everything going for him and they can’t win the big games, in the next breath claimed you had to give Allen weapons for him to shine. It’s insane. He will have to step up or step out this year, no more excuses, you can’t have the improvement on hitting short passes at the cost of missing everything down field, that’s not how that works. The COMPLETE game has to start showing up.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 8 hours ago, dlonce said: I guess, if it’s based on stats. Its a stats based world today. Dak just doesn’t exhume fear. He looks average to me. Tannehill even getting a vote is a joke, but of course it’s based on his last year statistically. Having a 65% accuracy rating isn’t all that much different than being in the upper 50s. Way too much emphasis on percentages. Darnold received a vote? Lol. He’s in the same league as Allen right now, except Allen’s team won a few more games. Allen was in the playoffs. You can all have your stats. I mean - dak had no GWDs and 4QC's last year... but he also has 14 GWDs and 8 4QCs the previous 3 years. Its not as if he's always just bad when the lights get bright or something. I guess you could put Matt Ryan ahead of him? Big Ben maybe? But I'd put him above stafford. Maybe Wentz too. I dunno the top 7 or so is easy - all-pros, MVPs, super bowl MVPs etc. The last few is a bit trickier and they're all probably right around the same spot. 41 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I'm still laughing at Lamar Jackson MVP award isn't enough to get into the top 10? Last year he was essentially the best player in football. 1
GunnerBill Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, dneveu said: I mean - dak had no GWDs and 4QC's last year... but he also has 14 GWDs and 8 4QCs the previous 3 years. Its not as if he's always just bad when the lights get bright or something. I guess you could put Matt Ryan ahead of him? Big Ben maybe? But I'd put him above stafford. Maybe Wentz too. I dunno the top 7 or so is easy - all-pros, MVPs, super bowl MVPs etc. The last few is a bit trickier and they're all probably right around the same spot. MVP award isn't enough to get into the top 10? Last year he was essentially the best player in football. That is how I see it. I would have Dak above Wentz and Stafford but below Matt Ryan. 1
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 21 hours ago, DCOrange said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29394204/ranking-nfl-top-10-qbs-2020-follows-patrick-mahomes Edit: To be clear, they're ranking QBs as they expect them to be in 2020. Not trying to project them 5 years out or anything like that (but in the case of Darnold for example, the guy that voted for him said that he expects him to take a leap this year). The Top 10: Patrick Mahomes Russell Wilson Aaron Rodgers Deshaun Watson Drew Brees Lamar Jackson Tom Brady Carson Wentz Dak Prescott Matt Stafford Also receiving votes: Matt Ryan - 14 votes out of 50 voters Ben Roethlisberger - 8 votes Kyler Murray - 5 votes Kirk Cousins - 2 votes Jimmy Garoppolo - 2 votes Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold - 1 vote each The thing about these kinds of lists is the assumption is made that the past will be the future. And, I get that may be the best method to predict with. But, you also have to be careful that it doesn't just become a lifetime achievement award. He has this many PBs, Awards, 4000+ seasons, Playoff wins etc. I bet when you look back at any seasons top 10 like this you will see 4-6 that are right on and 4-6 that you ask yourself. who thought this was right?
machine gun kelly Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Matt Ryan is a top 10 QB. He is definitely too low. It is Wentz who I would take out though. GB, agreed, and Stafford, and Wentz. I would replace one at least with Big Ben. If he is anything like he was two years ago, he is a stud. If I had to put another it would be either Rivers or Tannehill. Why Tannehill, because he won not one, but two playoff games against top teams. They will be good again and will be a tough game for Buffalo. Rivers has played behind some of the worst lines in the NFL. Now on Indy, I expect a solid year from Rivers. Maybe 10th if ranking.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said: GB, agreed, and Stafford, and Wentz. I would replace one at least with Big Ben. If he is anything like he was two years ago, he is a stud. If I had to put another it would be either Rivers or Tannehill. Why Tannehill, because he won not one, but two playoff games against top teams. They will be good again and will be a tough game for Buffalo. Rivers has played behind some of the worst lines in the NFL. Now on Indy, I expect a solid year from Rivers. Maybe 10th if ranking. Tannehill completed 15/29 passes in those 2 playoff wins for 160 total passing yards - over 2 games! Not saying the team is bad, or he is bad - but he was a very small component of their playoff success. Hence W-L not being an entirely QB driven stat. Edited July 9, 2020 by dneveu
machine gun kelly Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 Fair point Dnevue. I appreciate the take. He certainly was an upgrade over Marriotta. Crazy the #1 and #2 picks a few years ago are now back ups. I’m wondering if Goff ends up that route of the DoDo.
BornAgainBillsFan Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 23 hours ago, DCOrange said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29394204/ranking-nfl-top-10-qbs-2020-follows-patrick-mahomes Edit: To be clear, they're ranking QBs as they expect them to be in 2020. Not trying to project them 5 years out or anything like that (but in the case of Darnold for example, the guy that voted for him said that he expects him to take a leap this year). The Top 10: Patrick Mahomes Russell Wilson Aaron Rodgers Deshaun Watson Drew Brees Lamar Jackson Tom Brady Carson Wentz Dak Prescott Matt Stafford Also receiving votes: Matt Ryan - 14 votes out of 50 voters Ben Roethlisberger - 8 votes Kyler Murray - 5 votes Kirk Cousins - 2 votes Jimmy Garoppolo - 2 votes Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold - 1 vote each So here's what we know for sure: 1) At least one Jets "insider" was included, and 2) NO ONE from the Bills was.
Captain Hindsight Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 5 hours ago, CSBill said: Matt Ryan doesn't get the credit he deserves. For example, what has Dak Prescott done better than him? Played for the Cowboys 1
DCOrange Posted July 9, 2020 Author Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) Not sure it really warrants another thread, but for those that are interested, they published their top 10 RBs today: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29399166/ranking-nfl-top-10-running-backs-2020-best-big-3 1. Saquon Barkley 2. Christian McCaffrey 3. Ezekiel Elliott 4. Alvin Kamara 5. Derrick Henry 6. Dalvin Cook 7. Nick Chubb 8. Joe Mixon 9. Josh Jacobs 10. LeVeon Bell Honorable Mentions: Aaron Jones (lost to Bell on a tiebreaker for 10th) Chris Carson James Conner Melvin Gordon Leonard Fournette Edited July 9, 2020 by DCOrange
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