GunnerBill Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: I agree with you on Howard and Hock. I just remain skeptical that Njoku will reach his potential, much less maintain it, for various reasons, much less in Buffalo (he's worried about pecking order in Cleveland...). And to give up a draft pick and a new contract, it's a non-starter for me. I understand your view. I was responding mainly to the insinuation that people who wanted Njoku were cutting him slack that they were not willing to cut for Dawson Knox. I am a fan of both players. I think both still have a chance to improve significantly. I just believe Njoku's ceiling to be higher based on what he has put on tape both at the collegiate and (in limited action) at the NFL level. And regardless..... it improves our tight end room even if you believe that Knox is a stud. Do a deal with Njoku that tapers off pretty quick at the point you think you might be in the position of wanting to pay Dawson Knox and ride with two legit tight ends for the next 3 seasons. Would make a change for a franchise that has started Scott Chandler, Nick O'Leary and Chris Gragg at various points in the past decade. 1
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: It's not my logic. Again that's the viewpoint of those on this thread that slam Knox for his drops but say the Bills should absolutely go after Njoku. I agree with you on Howard and Hock. I just remain skeptical that Njoku will reach his potential, much less maintain it, for various reasons, much less in Buffalo (he's worried about pecking order in Cleveland...). And to give up a draft pick and a new contract, it's a non-starter for me. he’d jump to the top of our food chain at TE and be his job to lose at TE1. So I’m not sure the “much less in buffalo” comment works here. and we wouldn’t have to pay him this year 1
Doc Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, NoSaint said: he’d jump to the top of our food chain at TE and be his job to lose at TE1. So I’m not sure the “much less in buffalo” comment works here. and we wouldn’t have to pay him this year Doubtful. He's way behind Knox in terms of learning the playbook. And I'm sure a trade would be contingent upon him getting a new deal.
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 35 minutes ago, Doc said: Doubtful. He's way behind Knox in terms of learning the playbook. And I'm sure a trade would be contingent upon him getting a new deal. 1) So we are thinking only bad units with new coaches or new (low skill) additions to the unit? 2) there is a great chance he wants to showcase that skill before, not after, signing a new deal. I think he’s unlikely to rush a contract.
YoloinOhio Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 Browns fans hate this guy which means he’s probably going to be awesome on his next team 1
Doc Brown Posted July 6, 2020 Author Posted July 6, 2020 43 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Browns fans hate this guy which means he’s probably going to be awesome on his next team They were lukewarm on him until he requested a trade and now he sucks. 3 hours ago, Doc said: It's not my logic. Again that's the viewpoint of those on this thread that slam Knox for his drops but say the Bills should absolutely go after Njoku. I'd have to go back to the drops and compare them to Knox's to get a good understanding of how much he struggled. 1 hour ago, Doc said: And I'm sure a trade would be contingent upon him getting a new deal. Then he won't be traded because nobody will give him a decent contract because he hasn't proved anything yet.
Doc Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 57 minutes ago, NoSaint said: 1) So we are thinking only bad units with new coaches or new (low skill) additions to the unit? 2) there is a great chance he wants to showcase that skill before, not after, signing a new deal. I think he’s unlikely to rush a contract. I think they're expecting Knox to continue to develop. And are expecting Kroft to contribute. And by recently hiring Rosenhaus, whose MO is well-known, I have no doubt a new contract is a demand from a new team. 7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: I'd have to go back to the drops and compare them to Knox's to get a good understanding of how much he struggled. Then he won't be traded because nobody will give him a decent contract because he hasn't proved anything yet. The drops I saw from Knox were mostly of the run-before-securing-the-catch type. Not sure about Njoku. And I doubt he gets traded unless someone blows them away with an offer. And if he does get traded, it's to the NFC.
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, Doc said: I think they're expecting Knox to continue to develop. And are expecting Kroft to contribute. And by recently hiring Rosenhaus, whose MO is well-known, I have no doubt a new contract is a demand from a new team. The drops I saw from Knox were mostly of the run-before-securing-the-catch type. Not sure about Njoku. And I doubt he gets traded unless someone blows them away with an offer. And if he does get traded, it's to the NFC. First parts a bit of a waffle from simply the play book knowledge. second ignores that rosenhaus is above all consistent in finding the path to the pay day. That’s not behind hooper, that’s being a TE1 for a year successfully. He doesn’t need to rush a deal for less or demanding a crazy unearned deal. He’s in fact often very practical in that regard.
John from Riverside Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: And Derek Anderson. The bolded is where we disagree and I am a big fan of Knox. Njoku has elite potential. He has had some drops, and he has been hurt but he also flashed the big play ability in 2018 that is in there. There is almost no other on his outs tight end I am interested in. I wasn't clamouring for OJ Howard, I told this board before the 2019 draft that TJ Hockenson was not worth a top 10 pick when you could get someone like Dawson Knox later..... but Njoku's ceiling is really special. I'd trade for Njoku tomorrow. I would also like to get Njoku but has Knox also not flashed that same big play ability
Doc Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 58 minutes ago, NoSaint said: First parts a bit of a waffle from simply the play book knowledge. second ignores that rosenhaus is above all consistent in finding the path to the pay day. That’s not behind hooper, that’s being a TE1 for a year successfully. He doesn’t need to rush a deal for less or demanding a crazy unearned deal. He’s in fact often very practical in that regard. No waffle. They expect him to develop...because he's been with the team for over a year and knows the system, players and playbook. And if Rosenhaus/Njoku want to prove themselves before asking for a new contract, they'll want a team without a promising TE, if not fewer weapons, so he gets more targets. Not sure what team that would be but he'll be hard-pressed to get them in Buffalo.
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 37 minutes ago, Doc said: No waffle. They expect him to develop...because he's been with the team for over a year and knows the system, players and playbook. And if Rosenhaus/Njoku want to prove themselves before asking for a new contract, they'll want a team without a promising TE, if not fewer weapons, so he gets more targets. Not sure what team that would be but he'll be hard-pressed to get them in Buffalo. ironically, doc, we may finally have the weapons to entice a guy like this... you don’t want to be alone as a threat. A good running game and couple of deep threats opens up for a guy like him (see Kelce). im not arguing we are a slam dunk to chase him, just that I don’t think your reasons are great.
GunnerBill Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: I would also like to get Njoku but has Knox also not flashed that same big play ability Not to the same degree.
Doc Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, NoSaint said: ironically, doc, we may finally have the weapons to entice a guy like this... you don’t want to be alone as a threat. A good running game and couple of deep threats opens up for a guy like him (see Kelce). im not arguing we are a slam dunk to chase him, just that I don’t think your reasons are great. If the Bills have the weapons to entice him...why does he want off the Browns? Doesn't make sense. All I've heard as a reason to get him is "potential." Meanwhile I've heard he has issues with maturity, work ethic, drops, blocking, and possibly injuries.
NoSaint Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 34 minutes ago, Doc said: If the Bills have the weapons to entice him...why does he want off the Browns? Doesn't make sense. All I've heard as a reason to get him is "potential." Meanwhile I've heard he has issues with maturity, work ethic, drops, blocking, and possibly injuries. because they have a TE1 that just signed a monster deal and our tight end room is Knox, Kroft and Sweeney. Unless you think it’s going to be harder to unseat hooper than Knox. our weapons would be around him not in front of him. but you obviously knew that.
FireChans Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 On 7/5/2020 at 12:00 PM, NewEra said: Exaggerate much? Just about EVERY? What would constitute “just about every”? 90%? 80%? 2018 free agents QB Derek Anderson WR Brenton Bersin S Jairus Byrd TE Ed Dickson (signed with Seattle on March 16) LB Andrew Gachkar K Graham Gano (re-signed with Carolina on March 6) WR Charles D. Johnson DT Star Lotulelei (signed with Buffalo on March 15) G Andrew Norwell (signed with Jacksonville on March 15) DE Julius Peppers (re-signed with Carolina on March 14) G Amini Silatolu Restricted Free Agents WR Kaelin Clay CB LaDarius Gunter TE Scott Simonson C Greg Van Roten (re-signed with Carolina on Jan. 29) G David Yankey 2019 free agents: S Mike Adams RB Cameron Artis-Payne RB Kenjon Barner RB Travaris Cadet K Chandler Catanzaro OT Chris Clark LB Thomas Davis WR Devin Funchess DE Wes Horton LB Ben Jacobs (released) S Colin Jones (re-signed 3/11) C Ryan Kalil (retiring) DT Kyle Love LB David Mayo OT Marshall Newhouse DE Julius Peppers (retiring) S Eric Reid (re-signed 2/11) G Amini Silatolu RB Fozzy Whittaker OT Daryl Williams 2020 free agents EDGE Mario Addison S Tre Boston (re-signed 3/19) CB James Bradberry DT Vernon Butler CB Ross Cockrell CB Javien Elliott WR Chris Hogan DE Wes Horton EDGE Bruce Irvin DT Kyle Love DT Gerald McCoy NT Stacy McGee G Greg Van Roten G Daryl Williams You missed Philly Brown in 2017. And Mike Tolbert. And we traded for Kaelin Clay. The Carolina connection is real. 20 hours ago, MJS said: All the Browns players jumping ship. That was one of the most hyped teams ever last off-season. A paper tiger that just flopped. They drafted a TE, and signed the best FA TE on the market. Njoku will be competing for the #2 job and even if he wins it, won’t see enough targets to get massive compensation when his rookie contract is up. Better to seek a trade now to maximize his value when he hits FA. Common sense, honestly.
MJS Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, FireChans said: Njoku will be competing for the #2 job and even if he wins it, won’t see enough targets to get massive compensation when his rookie contract is up. Better to seek a trade now to maximize his value when he hits FA. Common sense, honestly. That and everyone wants out of Cleveland 1
NewEra Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 57 minutes ago, FireChans said: You missed Philly Brown in 2017. And Mike Tolbert. And we traded for Kaelin Clay. The Carolina connection is real. They drafted a TE, and signed the best FA TE on the market. Njoku will be competing for the #2 job and even if he wins it, won’t see enough targets to get massive compensation when his rookie contract is up. Better to seek a trade now to maximize his value when he hits FA. Common sense, honestly. Of course it’s real. No one is saying it isn’t real. Beane (and McD) scouted and liked those players enough to draft/sign those players when he was in Carolina.....it makes sense that he would be interested in them. They had success with those players. Seems to be working out just fine so far. Looking at that FA list I posted..... there are 6 ex bills that made their way to Carolina. While
Doc Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 3 hours ago, NoSaint said: because they have a TE1 that just signed a monster deal and our tight end room is Knox, Kroft and Sweeney. Unless you think it’s going to be harder to unseat hooper than Knox. our weapons would be around him not in front of him. but you obviously knew that. Earlier I stated the reasons why Knox would be in front of him as well and that he'd have to work his way up to #1 TE, in what may be an abbreviated training camp and what will definitely be an abbreviated pre-season. Especially if they trade just a 5th for him and he plays under his rookie contract. But again, I doubt the Browns trade him to an AFC rival, much less for so little, and I'd be willing to bet that Rosenhaus demands that Njoku be the starter if he's not given a new deal. That being said, I doubt the Bills have any interest.
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