shoshin Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: It's sad because it's indicative of the stark political divide. When Trump first came into office the term "alternative facts" and "alternative truths" became reality. These people believe that a lot of things that aren't true--many of which have been widely debunked and proven false--are truths simply because they believe it. My father-in-law is a great example. He's a hardcore Trump supporter (though he believes Biden will be President) who told me just last week that he believes there was widespread fraud. When I asked why he believes it, he said "it's just what I see" with absolutely no further evidence or commentary to back it up. Trump has the divine right to be President to many of them. I don't lump @leh-nerd skin-erd into that category, but even he as one of the more admirable and respectable posters on the other side of the aisle still just said a bunch of out-there stuff in that post you just responded to. And as you sum it up, it's just sad. The problem is that as I stated elsewhere, if you believe what Lehnard believes (like you I at least credit him with not entirely retreating to the echo chamber), that a massive fraud took place, then the people in on the cover-up, besides all the people who switched votes or voted illegally include in the cover-up, includes the Republican Supreme Court Justices, the Republican legislature of PA, several Republican federal judges including Trump appointees who have reviewed the best "evidence" presented so far, 4 Republican governors, and the list goes on. You can choose to believe that all those people and many thousands of others are in on the biggest conspiracy of all time or Trump lost. Occam's Razor suggests an answer. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: It's sad because it's indicative of the stark political divide. When Trump first came into office the term "alternative facts" and "alternative truths" became reality. These people believe that a lot of things that aren't true--many of which have been widely debunked and proven false--are truths simply because they believe it. My father-in-law is a great example. He's a hardcore Trump supporter (though he believes Biden will be President) who told me just last week that he believes there was widespread fraud. When I asked why he believes it, he said "it's just what I see" with absolutely no further evidence or commentary to back it up. Trump has the divine right to be President to many of them. I don't lump @leh-nerd skin-erd into that category, but even he as one of the more admirable and respectable posters on the other side of the aisle still just said a bunch of out-there stuff in that post you just responded to. And as you sum it up, it's just sad. No. DO NOT lump me in with posters who complained about DR and got him banned. I never complained about him to a mod and I took no part in that whatsoever and was surprised--and disappointed--when he got banned... TWICE!!! Stop yelling at me. In high school, I passed English with honors and never caused anyone any trouble. In the interest of clarity, I did not intend to imply you complained personally but see where I did. I apologize for that. I have no idea who complained.
shoshin Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: No. DO NOT lump me in with posters who complained about DR and got him banned. I never complained about him to a mod and I took no part in that whatsoever and was surprised--and disappointed--when he got banned... I got accused of this too. It's a badge of honor to be wrongfully accused. Everyone who attacks The Prophet is an infidel. 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Stop yelling at me. In high school, I passed English with honors and never caused anyone any trouble. In the interest of clarity, I did not intend to imply you complained personally but see where I did. I apologize for that. I have no idea who complained. SDS banned a bunch of people at the same time. DR was the one The Departed cared about.
transplantbillsfan Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: In the interest of clarity, I did not intend to imply you complained personally but see where I did. I apologize for that. I have no idea who complained. The problem is that this is just one more representation of the "us vs them" mentality that exists everywhere politically speaking right now. If I seemed to be yelling at you, it's because everyone over at the other board is also accusing me of getting him banned. I took no part in that. But because I'm "the other" to them, I must be at fault for that along with heart disease, diabetes, and Covid. It's just silly. And upon more reflection I honestly thing Greg banned himself in part to find a way out of his bet. It sure was odd that he and Foxx and Ann got that other site up so quickly
Warcodered Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I'm all for clarity and transparency. There are quite a few folks who indicated there was pushback from moderators specifically for viewpoints they held. The push back included being banned. I read SDS comments after the great reset, took them as they were presented and explained that I had not experienced anything similar. I simply replied to a post about an issue, shared my perspective and you're free to disregard it. From what I remember of someone posting complaining about the people that got banned saying it was biased they all actually did earn it. DR created a topic to specifically target another poster you can't really do that, the others had taken to replying in topics they didn't agree with, with walls of spam making them unreadable and you can't really do that either. DR's second ban came when he went into someone's topic he didn't agree with and he completely ignored what it was about and just kept repeatedly insulting the poster. 47 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: It was a 2BD bet, not Twitter, not Insta, not wear a Biden shirt down Main Street, and certainly not at a newly formed site after folks conspired to have him bounced from here. Didn't Transplant clear it with him over there when they moved? 15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: It's just silly. And upon more reflection I honestly thing Greg banned himself in part to find a way out of his bet. It sure was odd that he and Foxx and Ann got that other site up so quickly I think SDS would of noted it in the explanation posts if he'd reported himself.
Scraps Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, shoshin said: The problem is that as I stated elsewhere, if you believe what Lehnard believes (like you I at least credit him with not entirely retreating to the echo chamber), that a massive fraud took place, then the people in on the cover-up, besides all the people who switched votes or voted illegally include in the cover-up, includes the Republican Supreme Court Justices, the Republican legislature of PA, several Republican federal judges including Trump appointees who have reviewed the best "evidence" presented so far, 4 Republican governors, and the list goes on. You can choose to believe that all those people and many thousands of others are in on the biggest conspiracy of all time Why is that so difficult to believe? As a card carrying member of the cabal of Satan-worshipping pedophiles running a global child sex-trafficking ring and plotting against Donald Trump, you know how easy it is to keep a conspiracy under wraps.
transplantbillsfan Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I think SDS would of noted it in the explanation posts if he'd reported himself. I didn't mean he reported himself. I meant that he just stopped following the rules on purpose in order to martyr himself. Yes, I realize that sounds a little far-fetched, but based on what I'm seeing from him over there at this point, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Warcodered Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I didn't mean he reported himself. I meant that he just stopped following the rules on purpose in order to martyr himself. Yes, I realize that sounds a little far-fetched, but based on what I'm seeing from him over there at this point, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I think he less did it on purpose and more forgot/got too comfortable again and let his less acceptable habits crop up again. I'd say you can't really compare how he is over there, there are essentially no more restrictions for him over there. Though I'm guessing he's gotten worse as Trumps attempted theft of the election has failed, but I can't be sure because there "totally not an echo chamber" has been sealed off. Which with the way they called people snowflakes and belittled people for not being able to handle opposing takes is just hilarious to me.
shoshin Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I didn't mean he reported himself. I meant that he just stopped following the rules on purpose in order to martyr himself. Yes, I realize that sounds a little far-fetched, but based on what I'm seeing from him over there at this point, it wouldn't surprise me at all. The funny thing is that here or there, if you lost, you'd honor the bet I suspect, and put up an "I believe in Q" or whatever he wanted for 30 days. It would be funny, everyone would and should laugh, and who cares. But he's just not a guy with any honor.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: The problem is that this is just one more representation of the "us vs them" mentality that exists everywhere politically speaking right now. If I seemed to be yelling at you, it's because everyone over at the other board is also accusing me of getting him banned. I took no part in that. But because I'm "the other" to them, I must be at fault for that along with heart disease, diabetes, and Covid. It's just silly. And upon more reflection I honestly thing Greg banned himself in part to find a way out of his bet. It sure was odd that he and Foxx and Ann got that other site up so quickly It is 'us v them'. What's odd to many of us is that you all didn't seem to worry about that when you were them and we were us. Shoshy responded to one of my posts above with "Sad". Interestingly, he seems to concur with the assessment that what happened to Kavanaugh was horrible, that the impeachment attempt to remove the president was "terrible" (something like that, anyway), and that certain elements of Russia Russia Russia were troubling. From me perspective, it's pretty simple: -What reaction would be appropriate to a Kavanaugh-style public character assassination? Let's assume Biden understands the difference between the Supreme Court and a Food Court when the time comes to appoint a justice? In my opinion, there are two choices for the opposition party: Submit, and focus on character and achievements; or Follow precedent and launch an all-out assault to destroy the candidate; History shows us that option 2 is the best course of action for the opposition. Imo, when you (who also felt the man was mistreated) and Shoshy vote for Harris/Biden, you vote for that approach to SC management. -With respect to impeachment, assuming the Rs were able to gain the majority, Biden's been in office for 40+ years. There are two choices: Let him reign for as long as his Depends stay dry, babbling like a drunken monkey and talking to his good friend Margaret Thatcher across the pond; Dig, find the dirt or something that the average Biden hater might see as dirt, and impeach him; Recent History shows option 2 is a crackerjack way to go. -With respect to a Russia-style investigation: As if on cue, as the Trump legal team moves along and Biden gets closer to Craft Day on the National Mall on Jan 20, we begin to see reports on his son's business activities in China. More will follow, Joe will be tied to the shady deals, and decisions will have to be made. The Rs have two options: Let it go, move on, lick their wounds; Start the process to uncover what needs to be uncovered, selectively leak details, generate public support and try to destroy Biden and his family; Recent history shows hate is a powerful aphrodisiac, so destruction it is. At the end of the day, lots of folks on your side are lamenting the lack of civility and the refusal to submit for people on our side. Most of us simply point to the last five years and "GTFOH", take your unity and stuff it (politically speaking anyway). Personally, I hope Biden fails. I hope he fails miserably, and at the same time the resistance (overly dramatic but whatevs) works to tear him down. That doesn't mean he's not my president--I'm an American so I'm stuck with the old douche. But...unity? Pass.
transplantbillsfan Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, shoshin said: The funny thing is that here or there, if you lost, you'd honor the bet I suspect, and put up an "I believe in Q" or whatever he wanted for 30 days. It would be funny, everyone would and should laugh, and who cares. But he's just not a guy with any honor. Exactly. More than anything I'm just disturbed that I genuinely thought he had some integrity. In the lead up to the election, he directly told me that if Trump lost, he would obviously reconsider the sources he used for information. Instead he went even deeper into the Alt-right media... he's probably prowling Parler constantly in addition to Twitter at this point. Edited December 10, 2020 by transplantbillsfan
shoshin Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Exactly. More than anything I'm just disturbed that I genuinely thought he had some integrity. In the lead up to the election, he directly told me that if Trump lost, he would obviously reconsider the sources he used for information. Instead he went even deeper into the Alt-right media... he's probably prowling Parler constantly in addition to Twitter at this point. Uhh dude, he's The Prophet who went off and formed his own Parler. I'd say his desire to make up his own reality is his life's driving force. Have you ever seen anyone who spends more time posting on a football board? 1 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Warcodered said: From what I remember of someone posting complaining about the people that got banned saying it was biased they all actually did earn it. DR created a topic to specifically target another poster you can't really do that, the others had taken to replying in topics they didn't agree with, with walls of spam making them unreadable and you can't really do that either. DR's second ban came when he went into someone's topic he didn't agree with and he completely ignored what it was about and just kept repeatedly insulting the poster. Didn't Transplant clear it with him over there when they moved? I think SDS would of noted it in the explanation posts if he'd reported himself. Fair enough, but the end result was some folks moved on.
transplantbillsfan Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: It is 'us v them'. What's odd to many of us is that you all didn't seem to worry about that when you were them and we were us. It shouldn't be... at least not in the way that it is now. It's a very different "us vs. them" with Greg and a number of those other posters who left this site than it is with my in-laws and the friend I watch Bills games with every week who are Trump supporters and, I suspect, you. Over there, they believe we're the enemy and are literally calling for blood in the streets in order to keep Trump in office. That's insane. I never perceived him or any of the rest of them to be the enemy (Except maybe @The_Dude who actually seems like he might be downright evil) and certainly never said it. Just because you have starkly different political views than me, I don't view you as "the enemy." 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Shoshy responded to one of my posts above with "Sad". Interestingly, he seems to concur with the assessment that what happened to Kavanaugh was horrible, that the impeachment attempt to remove the president was "terrible" (something like that, anyway), and that certain elements of Russia Russia Russia were troubling. Is that really what he said or are you putting words in his mouth like you so often do with me? 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: From me perspective, it's pretty simple: -What reaction would be appropriate to a Kavanaugh-style public character assassination? Let's assume Biden understands the difference between the Supreme Court and a Food Court when the time comes to appoint a justice? In my opinion, there are two choices for the opposition party: Submit, and focus on character and achievements; or Follow precedent and launch an all-out assault to destroy the candidate; History shows us that option 2 is the best course of action for the opposition. Imo, when you (who also felt the man was mistreated) and Shoshy vote for Harris/Biden, you vote for that approach to SC management. Talk about tunnel vision. This totally ignores the antics of the Republican party and Mitch McConnell specifically as far as the SC is involved... I don't really know how the SC became your focus in this post, but with what's happened over the last 4 years with the SC as far as Republicans go, I think if the Democrats win the Georgia runoff seats (I don't think they will... but if they do) they should get rid of the filibuster and pack the court 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: -With respect to impeachment, assuming the Rs were able to gain the majority, Biden's been in office for 40+ years. There are two choices: Let him reign for as long as his Depends stay dry, babbling like a drunken monkey and talking to his good friend Margaret Thatcher across the pond; Dig, find the dirt or something that the average Biden hater might see as dirt, and impeach him; Recent History shows option 2 is a crackerjack way to go. Republicans are free to impeach Biden, but they need to win the House back first. So, if impeachment happens, it won't be until 2023 at least. 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: -With respect to a Russia-style investigation: As if on cue, as the Trump legal team moves along and Biden gets closer to Craft Day on the National Mall on Jan 20, we begin to see reports on his son's business activities in China. More will follow, Joe will be tied to the shady deals, and decisions will have to be made. The Rs have two options: Let it go, move on, lick their wounds; Start the process to uncover what needs to be uncovered, selectively leak details, generate public support and try to destroy Biden and his family; Recent history shows hate is a powerful aphrodisiac, so destruction it is. Like I said, Republicans will need to win back the House before they're able to impeach. 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: At the end of the day, lots of folks on your side are lamenting the lack of civility and the refusal to submit for people on our side. Most of us simply point to the last five years and "GTFOH", take your unity and stuff it (politically speaking anyway). What do you point to regarding unity? How terrible Trump was in creating it? I agree. He was the bane of his own existence for the last 4 years in so many ways. 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Personally, I hope Biden fails. I hope he fails miserably, and at the same time the resistance (overly dramatic but whatevs) works to tear him down. That doesn't mean he's not my president--I'm an American so I'm stuck with the old douche. But...unity? Pass. Interesting. I was genuinely rooting for Trump. Once he gave his acceptance speech I turned to my father-in-law (aformentioned Trump supporter) and told him that I liked what I heard and that maybe he can far surpass my expectations. He didn't.
Warcodered Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: It is 'us v them'. What's odd to many of us is that you all didn't seem to worry about that when you were them and we were us. Shoshy responded to one of my posts above with "Sad". Interestingly, he seems to concur with the assessment that what happened to Kavanaugh was horrible, that the impeachment attempt to remove the president was "terrible" (something like that, anyway), and that certain elements of Russia Russia Russia were troubling. From me perspective, it's pretty simple: -What reaction would be appropriate to a Kavanaugh-style public character assassination? Let's assume Biden understands the difference between the Supreme Court and a Food Court when the time comes to appoint a justice? In my opinion, there are two choices for the opposition party: Submit, and focus on character and achievements; or Follow precedent and launch an all-out assault to destroy the candidate; History shows us that option 2 is the best course of action for the opposition. Imo, when you (who also felt the man was mistreated) and Shoshy vote for Harris/Biden, you vote for that approach to SC management. -With respect to impeachment, assuming the Rs were able to gain the majority, Biden's been in office for 40+ years. There are two choices: Let him reign for as long as his Depends stay dry, babbling like a drunken monkey and talking to his good friend Margaret Thatcher across the pond; Dig, find the dirt or something that the average Biden hater might see as dirt, and impeach him; Recent History shows option 2 is a crackerjack way to go. -With respect to a Russia-style investigation: As if on cue, as the Trump legal team moves along and Biden gets closer to Craft Day on the National Mall on Jan 20, we begin to see reports on his son's business activities in China. More will follow, Joe will be tied to the shady deals, and decisions will have to be made. The Rs have two options: Let it go, move on, lick their wounds; Start the process to uncover what needs to be uncovered, selectively leak details, generate public support and try to destroy Biden and his family; Recent history shows hate is a powerful aphrodisiac, so destruction it is. At the end of the day, lots of folks on your side are lamenting the lack of civility and the refusal to submit for people on our side. Most of us simply point to the last five years and "GTFOH", take your unity and stuff it (politically speaking anyway). Personally, I hope Biden fails. I hope he fails miserably, and at the same time the resistance (overly dramatic but whatevs) works to tear him down. That doesn't mean he's not my president--I'm an American so I'm stuck with the old douche. But...unity? Pass. I mean I don't hate conservative ideology. I mean between liberals and conservatives it should be between a group that wants more government to help provide a safety net/boost to the poor/low income segment of the population which comes with more taxes and conservatives who want less government and fewer taxes. That's a debate worth having and I'd be far more flexible in my alignment if that was the case. But no now both sides just accuse the other of being out to destroy the country which is just ***** dumb. Though I have to say conservatives/republicans in their zeal to maintain power to keep moving things in their direction are coming about as close as I've ever seen. I mean they're at best flirting with the idea of trying to just give Trump the election which would seriously break everything I mean why would he ever leave power again he'd of already broken the rules once. Republicans did not react well to Obama winning the Presidency, when your number 1 objective in how you govern is to prevent the current President from getting re-elected that's a fundamentally broken system. 13 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Interesting. I was genuinely rooting for Trump. Once he gave his acceptance speech I turned to my father-in-law (aformentioned Trump supporter) and told him that I liked what I heard and that maybe he can far surpass my expectations. He didn't. I thought about that too initially maybe he'd surprise me and prove me wrong that'd be great for this country. He most definitely didn't and the saddest thing has been the pandemic this year. If he had actually handled this right he probably would of won this election and I might of hated it but I would of understood it. 1 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: It shouldn't be... at least not in the way that it is now. It's a very different "us vs. them" with Greg and a number of those other posters who left this site than it is with my in-laws and the friend I watch Bills games with every week who are Trump supporters and, I suspect, you. Over there, they believe we're the enemy and are literally calling for blood in the streets in order to keep Trump in office. That's insane. I never perceived him or any of the rest of them to be the enemy (Except maybe @The_Dude who actually seems like he might be downright evil) and certainly never said it. Just because you have starkly different political views than me, I don't view you as "the enemy." There are people with extreme points of view, who believe on one side or the other that things need tp change. There are people on this site I wouldn't trust if you paid me to so. Still, as a get-along guy, I watched quite a bit of footage of folks looking to tear down and destroy the livelihoods of others, and we literally saw blood on the streets. I watched large gatherings of roving human trash confront and bully citizens out and about minding their own business...and saw mostly deferential treatment from major media outlets and the 115 year old dementia patient about to assume office. Respect is earned, and it's important to know that when some folks push, others push back. I don't advocate violence, I engage in civil discussion, but we live in the real world. 39 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Is that really what he said or are you putting words in his mouth like you so often do with me? I've never put words in your mouth, I interpret what you have said and recreate as I understand it. As for Shoshy, he can respond, but I believe I've recreated what he said a few posts up accurately. 39 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Talk about tunnel vision. This totally ignores the antics of the Republican party and Mitch McConnell specifically as far as the SC is involved... Wrongo Charlie Chan. I never ignored what the R and McConnell did--they acted within the framework of the Senate, referenced the Biden rule and refused to take up the nomination. They certainly did not accuse the nominee of being a sexual predator, and certainly did not attempt to destroy him in front of the world, his wife and his children. The pattern is apparent---Bork, Thomas...and Kavanaugh. And as I said, it works. The brilliance of the ACB nomination was that in 2020, even the most vile among us recognize the potential downside of destroying a mother. I wished no ill will to RBG, but in retrospect, it was fortuitous that she passed away when she did and I'm grateful she decided to hang on during the Obama years. 39 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I don't really know how the SC became your focus in this post, but with what's happened over the last 4 years with the SC as far as Republicans go, I think if the Democrats win the Georgia runoff seats (I don't think they will... but if they do) they should get rid of the filibuster and pack the court The SC is not the focus on my post, it's simply part of the explanation of why 'us v them' is the natural end game of American politics. Put another way, Ruth Bader Ginsburg--politics aside--should be an example of American exceptionalism. She was confirmed without issue, and no one raised a complaint that she broke up a happy marriage when she gave a hummer to an oversexed father on the way home from a babysitting gig while performing a pommel horse routine on the stick shift. That's not to say there were not people who would do that, it simply was unthinkable back in the day. Now---it works. Kavanaugh = rapist = Rs support rapist = votes for Biden. As for packing the court, well, even better that RBG expired when she did. You can never count on what is going to happen next. Or, next after that. 39 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Republicans are free to impeach Biden, but they need to win the House back first. So, if impeachment happens, it won't be until 2023 at least. Like I said, Republicans will need to win back the House before they're able to impeach. I am fully aware of that, but here's the thing. I would not have supported a phony impeachment scandal for Barrack Obama, and I think the guy was a horrible president. Still, in 2020, we know that a phony impeachment scandal turns out the vote, right? So while impeachment isn't going to happen, that only leaves the politics of personal destruction. I don't make the rules, and it's sad, but again, it works. 39 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: What do you point to regarding unity? How terrible Trump was in creating it? I agree. He was the bane of his own existence for the last 4 years in so many ways. 65,000,000 people +/- voted for Clinton in 2016. They voted for the characterization of me, and the people I love and care about, as racists, misogynists and deplorable---beyond all redemption. The challenge this time around was when she rolled the bones on that tired democrat play (who can forget Biden famously suggesting that Rs were going to enslave black folks by putting them 'back in chains'), Trump was having none of it. He pushed back--something that a formerly lovable but ultimately nutless politician like Romney would not do. The most fascinating part about DJT to me is his almost unbelievable ability to say to his detractors --"Get the &^%$ outta here". 39 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Interesting. I was genuinely rooting for Trump. Once he gave his acceptance speech I turned to my father-in-law (aformentioned Trump supporter) and told him that I liked what I heard and that maybe he can far surpass my expectations. He didn't. While I was very concerned about Obama, I held my breath and hoped for the best. I was hopeful he would far surpass my expectations. He didn't. Good for you on wishing DJT well--in the 3 years prior to the wet market bat virus issue, as our economy roared, millions of folks on your side of the fence supported the continued attempt to destroy him. No unity, no meeting in the middle, just a constant and perpetual movement toward destruction. It never ceases to amaze me how dumb people are, and how they'll vote against their own best interests. But that was then, this is now. The players set the ground rules, and they are what they are. The rest of us push back or comply. I have no desire to meet you in the middle, or hope for the best for that fading old man you elected king.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Warcodered said: I mean I don't hate conservative ideology. I mean between liberals and conservatives it should be between a group that wants more government to help provide a safety net/boost to the poor/low income segment of the population which comes with more taxes and conservatives who want less government and fewer taxes. That's a debate worth having and I'd be far more flexible in my alignment if that was the case. But no now both sides just accuse the other of being out to destroy the country which is just ***** dumb. Though I have to say conservatives/republicans in their zeal to maintain power to keep moving things in their direction are coming about as close as I've ever seen. I mean they're at best flirting with the idea of trying to just give Trump the election which would seriously break everything I mean why would he ever leave power again he'd of already broken the rules once. Republicans did not react well to Obama winning the Presidency, when your number 1 objective in how you govern is to prevent the current President from getting re-elected that's a fundamentally broken system. I thought about that too initially maybe he'd surprise me and prove me wrong that'd be great for this country. He most definitely didn't and the saddest thing has been the pandemic this year. If he had actually handled this right he probably would of won this election and I might of hated it but I would of understood it. And I'm liberal on many social issues. Here's the best way for me to say it using a copy/paste of your words: Though I have to say democrats/liberals in their zeal to wrest power away from a lawfully-elected president to keep moving things in their direction are coming about as close as I've ever seen. I mean they're at best flirting with the idea of removing a President from office over a phony commie conspiracy, and thena silly impeachment gambit which would seriously break everything I mean what's next--it seems perfectly plausible that they would attempt to steal the election. They've said things like 'nothing is off the table', 'by any means necessary', and of course 'the intelligence community will find six ways to Sunday to get you'. Out of everything you said, what makes me the most sad is that had he won reelection, with all the positives for people from all walks of life, you might have hated it. It's going to be flat out fun to see what happens when the arrogant prick-elect wages his personal war on the fossil fuel industry.
Niagara Bill Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 129 pages of debate which is playing to trumps plans. He loves the diversion from his goal. Consider Early January, Biden will be made to look like a traitor, a friend of China or Russia or something like that, Hunter has had shot one fired, Kamala will be villified, voting irregularities persist and the hero of the vaccines will take all the credit, with perhaps a war/terrorist conflict and trump will force a cancellation of the 20th of January through the courts and he continues with control. Jan 20, 2021, their will be an attempted coup. 100 congressmen joined with the Texas legal challenge tonight. Cruz can control Texas and the South, poor boys come marching in.....times are a changing. The stars are aligning Am I potentially far off
transplantbillsfan Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: There are people with extreme points of view, who believe on one side or the other that things need tp change. There are people on this site I wouldn't trust if you paid me to so. Still, as a get-along guy, I watched quite a bit of footage of folks looking to tear down and destroy the livelihoods of others, and we literally saw blood on the streets. I watched large gatherings of roving human trash confront and bully citizens out and about minding their own business...and saw mostly deferential treatment from major media outlets and the 115 year old dementia patient about to assume office. Respect is earned, and it's important to know that when some folks push, others push back. I don't advocate violence, I engage in civil discussion, but we live in the real world. The violence from the riots over the Summer was unacceptable, but it was also violence caused by BOTH far-right AND far-left extremists. The violence these people are talking about right now are solely for the sake of overturning the very foundation of our country: free and fair elections. 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I've never put words in your mouth, I interpret what you have said and recreate as I understand it. Soooo... in other words... you put words in my mouth. 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Wrongo Charlie Chan. I never ignored what the R and McConnell did--they acted within the framework of the Senate, referenced the Biden rule and refused to take up the nomination. They certainly did not accuse the nominee of being a sexual predator, and certainly did not attempt to destroy him in front of the world, his wife and his children. The pattern is apparent---Bork, Thomas...and Kavanaugh. And as I said, it works. The brilliance of the ACB nomination was that in 2020, even the most vile among us recognize the potential downside of destroying a mother. I wished no ill will to RBG, but in retrospect, it was fortuitous that she passed away when she did and I'm grateful she decided to hang on during the Obama years. The SC is not the focus on my post, it's simply part of the explanation of why 'us v them' is the natural end game of American politics. Put another way, Ruth Bader Ginsburg--politics aside--should be an example of American exceptionalism. She was confirmed without issue, and no one raised a complaint that she broke up a happy marriage when she gave a hummer to an oversexed father on the way home from a babysitting gig while performing a pommel horse routine on the stick shift. That's not to say there were not people who would do that, it simply was unthinkable back in the day. Now---it works. Kavanaugh = rapist = Rs support rapist = votes for Biden. I find your obsession with people's vices in their personal lives fascinating considering how dismissive you are of all of them in Trump's life. 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: As for packing the court, well, even better that RBG expired when she did. You can never count on what is going to happen next. Or, next after that. You're right, but with what McConnell's done in the last 4 1/2 years, packing the court would actually be the next logical and fair steps if the Democrats win the Senate. It won't happen because I don't think the Democrats win both Georgia seats and I don't think they have the balls to do that with such a slim majority, but it's something they absolutely should do down the road if they get a larger majority. 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I am fully aware of that, but here's the thing. I would not have supported a phony impeachment scandal for Barrack Obama, and I think the guy was a horrible president. Still, in 2020, we know that a phony impeachment scandal turns out the vote, right? So while impeachment isn't going to happen, that only leaves the politics of personal destruction. I don't make the rules, and it's sad, but again, it works. What was phony? It wasn't a phony impeachment scandal. It really happened and for the first time in our history a member of the Senate of the same political party as the President being impeached voted to impeach him. There was nothing phony about that impeachment trial. Members of Trump's own party admitted he was guilty. They just resigned themselves to the fact that the American people could decide in 11 months since it was an election year. And the American people decided. 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: 65,000,000 people +/- voted for Clinton in 2016. They voted for the characterization of me, and the people I love and care about, as racists, misogynists and deplorable---beyond all redemption. The challenge this time around was when she rolled the bones on that tired democrat play (who can forget Biden famously suggesting that Rs were going to enslave black folks by putting them 'back in chains'), Trump was having none of it. He pushed back--something that a formerly lovable but ultimately nutless politician like Romney would not do. The most fascinating part about DJT to me is his almost unbelievable ability to say to his detractors --"Get the &^%$ outta here". Wait... whaaaaaaaa????? Talk about perpetuating the problem in our country right now. You've branded all Trump voters as part of a Cult-of-Trump, which is exactly what he's done so well for 4 years with his brand. His indignation at losing has become his voters' indignation because the voters feel they were cheated because he said so. Get out of the cult. My dislike of Donald Trump is not a dislike of Donald Trump voters. My in-laws and friend I go watch football with are not deplorable racists or misogynists beyond redemption. The reason so many of you thought Trump would win was because of the ravenous loyalty of his supporters. I still see people holding Trump flags on overpasses sometimes on the Freeway. For Greg and others, the amount of people at rallies somehow proved he would win. It was a silly argument. We voted against Trump, not Trump voters. 15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: While I was very concerned about Obama, I held my breath and hoped for the best. I was hopeful he would far surpass my expectations. He didn't. Good for you on wishing DJT well--in the 3 years prior to the wet market bat virus issue, as our economy roared, millions of folks on your side of the fence supported the continued attempt to destroy him. No unity, no meeting in the middle, just a constant and perpetual movement toward destruction. It never ceases to amaze me how dumb people are, and how they'll vote against their own best interests. But that was then, this is now. The players set the ground rules, and they are what they are. The rest of us push back or comply. I have no desire to meet you in the middle, or hope for the best for that fading old man you elected king. No, Trump's first 3 years are wildly overblown in terms of his successes with the economy. He held the economy back in many ways with his tariffs and the manufacturing industry was in a recession late in 2019 even before the Pandemic. His tax cuts were a brief shot to the economy, followed by more sluggishness... and most of the benefits went to the very wealthy rather than middle and lower class Americans who really needed the help. On top of this, these middle and lower class Americans can see corruption playing out in the highest office of the land as Trump gets rich off his office and uses taxpayer dollars frivolously for significantly more golfing than any of his predecessors (one of his many lies), trips to his resorts, and detouring military planes to places near his resort like in Britain to make more money. His Presidency was wildly tainted even before the Pandemic and it was the reason I made the bet with Greg way back then. I thought Trump would still lose and still think he probably would have, but I was more lik 55/45 on that. Once the Pandemic hit, it became 70/30 to me and I even tried to let DR out of the bet because it was so obvious. But he doubled down and turned into more of a douche. Trump was just a terrible President, and a lot of his voters didn't even realize that with a lot of his policies they were actually cutting off their noses to spite their face. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 11, 2020 Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: The violence from the riots over the Summer was unacceptable, but it was also violence caused by BOTH far-right AND far-left extremists. The violence these people are talking about right now are solely for the sake of overturning the very foundation of our country: free and fair elections. Which they see as neither fair..nor free. Quote Soooo... in other words... you put words in my mouth. I find your obsession with people's vices in their personal lives fascinating considering how dismissive you are of all of them in Trump's life. Obsession with vices? What is this nonsense? The desire NOT to see a human being eviscerated for political gain on an issue that has no substance reflects an 'obsession with vices'? In the time Kamala Harris has been a major contender to the throne, and in spite of her own disgusting attempt to destroy Kavanaugh, I've not once mentioned the rumors surrounding her ascension to power in dem politics. Imo, it's mean-spirited, judgemental and to be completely honest, there are plenty of reasons to dislike her. Your biggest issue with me has been that when I point out the troubled past of your boi Joe, you are forced to defend him and set aside your own principles. I never made allegations about other political players, but just because you're comfortable with ***** Joe does not mean I need to be. As for Trump's past--I acknowledged up front that I thought the allegations stemmed from a money grab by his accusers. It's unfortuantely part and parcel to being a wealthy man in the public eye, but he declined the allegations and that's that. As for Biden--his tendency to grope and grind is much more public, and he's acknowledged that his victims just misunderstood him when he cupped a tater or two. In fact, Kamala Harris said she believed the woman you marginalized, correct? She claimed a violent sexual assault occurred--Kammy said she was credible until there was something in it for her. She traded integrity (whatever that means for a senator) for the VP slot. See Romney, Willard for a similar tale. Quote You're right, but with what McConnell's done in the last 4 1/2 years, packing the court would actually be the next logical and fair steps if the Democrats win the Senate. It won't happen because I don't think the Democrats win both Georgia seats and I don't think they have the balls to do that with such a slim majority, but it's something they absolutely should do down the road if they get a larger majority. Let's hope you're right on the senate. As I said earlier, some people push back when pushed. I'd hate to see that. As for McConnell, do tell--what's the 4.5 year slug that has you all geeked up? Besides Garland, I mean. Quote What was phony? It wasn't a phony impeachment scandal. It really happened and for the first time in our history a member of the Senate of the same political party as the President being impeached voted to impeach him. There was nothing phony about that impeachment trial. Members of Trump's own party admitted he was guilty. They just resigned themselves to the fact that the American people could decide in 11 months since it was an election year. And the American people decided. Of course it happened...and you're right, it worked. Division sells, why would you expect unity now? Quote Wait... whaaaaaaaa????? Talk about perpetuating the problem in our country right now. You've branded all Trump voters as part of a Cult-of-Trump, which is exactly what he's done so well for 4 years with his brand. His indignation at losing has become his voters' indignation because the voters feel they were cheated because he said so. Get out of the cult. My dislike of Donald Trump is not a dislike of Donald Trump voters. My in-laws and friend I go watch football with are not deplorable racists or misogynists beyond redemption. The cult talk...yeesh. What a tired cliche. I'd agree with you on this issue if, in fact, there was any attempt at unity, or any push back whatsoever after the repeated failed attempts to unseat DJT. I have friends that don't like him, I certainly have liberal friends, but the liberal collective sends the message loud and clear. It's why suddenly, as if by magic, UNITY is buzzword because Biden was elected. The only question is who is on the outside looking in. Quote The reason so many of you thought Trump would win was because of the ravenous loyalty of his supporters. I still see people holding Trump flags on overpasses sometimes on the Freeway. For Greg and others, the amount of people at rallies somehow proved he would win. It was a silly argument. We voted against Trump, not Trump voters. Sorry friend, you voted for Biden. The rest is window dressing. Quote No, Trump's first 3 years are wildly overblown in terms of his successes with the economy. He held the economy back in many ways with his tariffs and the manufacturing industry was in a recession late in 2019 even before the Pandemic. His tax cuts were a brief shot to the economy, followed by more sluggishness... and most of the benefits went to the very wealthy rather than middle and lower class Americans who really needed the help. On top of this, these middle and lower class Americans can see corruption playing out in the highest office of the land as Trump gets rich off his office and uses taxpayer dollars frivolously for significantly more golfing than any of his predecessors (one of his many lies), trips to his resorts, and detouring military planes to places near his resort like in Britain to make more money. His Presidency was wildly tainted even before the Pandemic and it was the reason I made the bet with Greg way back then. I thought Trump would still lose and still think he probably would have, but I was more lik 55/45 on that. Once the Pandemic hit, it became 70/30 to me and I even tried to let DR out of the bet because it was so obvious. But he doubled down and turned into more of a douche. Trump was just a terrible President, and a lot of his voters didn't even realize that with a lot of his policies they were actually cutting off their noses to spite their face. You used a ton of words to rationalize whatever it is you feel, but jobs put money in people's pockets, growth is good, reasonable taxation is good, excessive taxation is bad. Some of you who voted for Biden have become so accustomed to thinking the scraps they leave for you after stepping on your paycheck is awesome. You morons (politically-speaking) lined up and voted (sometimes multiple times!) because Joe pitches that you're the victim, the rich man is taking advantage of you, and you need him to save you and it'll only cost you your pride and his hands on some poor girl's ass. The fact is that on the ledger, there are annuitants with a guaranteed income and benefit stream regardless if times are flush or we're in a pandemic. It's sort of a cradle to grave approach to adulthood, and i'm sure it's intoxicating. Think of it like this--throughout the pandemic, as industry after industry is asked and/or strong-armed into submitting to give back (defer loan payments, allow tenants to live rent free, reduce insurance premiums, etc), the state rolls on. No deferments. No hardships. No sympathy. Just "I want my money man". Cripes, here in NY, they didn't even offer to waive the late payments for school and property tax. How about a &^%$ing sales tax holiday? Temporary suspension of gas tax? Anything? Anything? Nein. Just Robert Deniro choking out poor Maury in the wig shoppe looking for the vig. For most of the rest of us forced without mercy to sustain the annuity payments, that bs Trump economy as you see it was the difference between life and death. For some, it was same/same pay for a lot less effort. Peace out. I have to go stick some pins in a doll. **Edit-one more thought on that annuitant philosophy. The genius of Biden was to encourage some folks formerly not of the annuitant class to get a taste. He sets the income bar at $400,000 (because why shouldn't some Americans work 39%+ of the year so others don't have to) and then rolls on "I'll get some folks to pay your student loan debt--man, that's not your fault you incurred $87,433.68 in student loans when you could have done it for next to nothing!". Division sells. In addition, you can figure out the cost of some people's integrity if you know how much it cost him to attend Boston College. Edited December 11, 2020 by leh-nerd skin-erd
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