TBBills Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: HHHHEEEELLLLLLLOOOOO (echo) Don't forget about me, King Troll! I didn't buddy. Edited November 19, 2020 by TBBills
snafu Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, WideNine said: Yet when I contradict posts where someone posits (claims) election fraud because there were random processing or administrative errors I get nothing. Every, I repeat EVERY election that involves millions of votes has a small margin of human error. For the most part these are caught and corrected via each states certification process. But random cases of human error will never stack up and align with claims of systemic fraud, nor be enough leverage to have a court of law throw out thousands of legitimate votes. That is why you fail, because it is a flawed premise not because there is a conspiracy or echo chamber levied against you. If you're talking about me, I never said election fraud. Human error is the way it has been described. I've accepted that. And your posts usually aren't responsive, so there's not any need to respond. 1
RochesterRob Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: We know, Rob. You forgot the FIFY! That aside I think you have been huffing model airplane glue for quite a long time now. Used to hear about guys stowed away in the R wing of Strong Memorial Hospital because they fried their minds with that stuff. I'm thinking that you are one of them. 9 minutes ago, TBBills said: I didn't buddy. If only that were true. At least you attempted to diminish the threat to yourself. Good boy!
RochesterRob Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 Three feral cats appear here immediately after my last post. Good thing I was not carrying a bag of Purina Cat Chow or you guys might have knocked me down to take it.
WideNine Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, snafu said: If you're talking about me, I never said election fraud. Human error is the way it has been described. I've accepted that. And your posts usually aren't responsive, so there's not any need to respond. Actually a good point regarding brevity. However, you said "Auditing the results takes a lot of time and effort. I'm not asking for audited results in 50 states, or any state -- as long as there's no obvious error. But, you see, there ARE errors, and these errors wouldn't have been known if nobody questioned" My rebuttal was that you had a fundamental misunderstanding of state election certification. The certification process itself is an audit of the states election results intended to catch and remedy any errors.
oldmanfan Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 3 hours ago, snafu said: I want the vote count to be accurate and certified. You are getting "audited" results mixed up from results. Auditing the results takes a lot of time and effort. I'm not asking for audited results in 50 states, or any state -- as long as there's no obvious error. But, you see, there ARE errors, and these errors wouldn't have been known if nobody questioned. If the mop up of the results is happening, then bravo. If the results are finalized and Biden wins, then that's great. If there are infirmities then I want those sussed out without people complaining that this is a waste of time. Because getting it right, to me, is not a waste of time. The vote count is accurate and is certified. Any errors are minuscule and are being found. You want something north of perfection. Andcerrors aren’t just found if someone questions. They normally are found by auditing and are then corrected.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, WideNine said: Yet when I contradict posts where someone posits (claims) election fraud because there were random processing or administrative errors I get nothing. Every, I repeat EVERY election that involves millions of votes has a small margin of human error. For the most part these are caught and corrected via each states certification process. But random cases of human error will never stack up and align with claims of systemic fraud, nor be enough leverage to have a court of law throw out thousands of legitimate votes. That is why you fail, because it is a flawed premise not because there is a conspiracy or echo chamber levied against you. I appreciate the effort put forth and have very few issues with what you post. I do not accept everything you say as factual, and feel like I do not need to. The other day, you quoted from Vox, and referenced a book that was titled something like "Trump is the most horrible human being ever". I started to reply and thought, geesh, what's the point? A guy wrote a book, you believe it's an accurate representation of the world and that's fine. I really enjoyed the novel "It" back in college, but I don't think there are clowns in the sewer. Your argument is irrefutable--human error occurs when human's are involved. Your second statement--"for the most part these are caught and corrected...." is conjecture. Pure conjecture, as in, just because you say it doesn't mean it is so. Bernie Madhoff did amazing things as an investment guru for many, many people, until he didn't. I'm skeptical by nature, and cynical as well. I'll share some general thoughts about people and systems: I believe that systems can be hacked, and that algorithms can be manipulated to effect a desired outcome. Since I believe that generally, when an allegation is made that malfeasance occurred, I consider the source and continue on; I believe in the innate goodness of many people, and the corruption of people in power. You and yours sit here, day after day, year after year, howling about DJT, believing incredible stories of hookers and urine (pee pee), screaming about corruption and then suggest "NOTHING TO SEE HERE--Trust me!". I don't care--seriosuly--don't care what you think, and I certainly do not trust those in power anymore than your trust Trump; I believe that people will, if possible, attempt to influence the election through just about every form of illegal activity known to man. Software. Pipe breaks. Mail fraud. Dead people voting. Keeping poll watchers at bay. Intimidation. Harrassment. Murder. It's simply the human condition. The interesting part to me is that you believe it too, you just target the other guy. And, to be fair to you--I really don't know if you're the one true angel left in the world who believes that the election system is beyond reproach, but id you are God bless you. Here's where I'm at: Thousands of ballots have been recovered in Georgia, previously uncounted, potentially disenfranchised voters. We can write it off to incompetence, or wonder if there is something else afoot, and I'm not ready to write it off as pure incompetence; I've read reports of severe and substantial issues with Dominion software, including a very concerning letter written by Sens Warren and Klobuchaer in early 2019. The sum and substance is--this thing sucks, its easy to manipulate and the integrity of our election is at stake. The oft-cited report of vote tallies being shut down with Trump far ahead, a sudden spike in votes for Biden...troubles me. There may be a perfectly legitimate reason for the spike--and yes, I've read stories purporting to debunk the idea of fraud, but I'm not yet convinced. Since I'm not convinced, I say fight on; The story out Wayne County, Michigan involving the certification process troubles me. It seems to me that intimidation and coercion played a large part in decisions made there, and it validates my thought that while lots of people are good, many are not. I'm interested in the outcome of the Wisconsin recount. The entire system for counting votes in Pennsylvania seems odd to me. The allegations made today are that there were violations of election law, and unequal protection under the law as it related to city v rural areas. When all is said and done, I've been clear that I think Joe Biden will be president of the country on 1/20. I'll likely arrive at that point convinced there was substantial chicanery (funny business) that aided him along the way. Still, I see absolutely nothing wrong with DJT pursuing litigation and telling the story they feel needs to be told along the way. Thanks for the clarification, too, btw, but I know what the word 'posit' means. I went to Catholic school, received an excellent education(schoolin) and read, you know, books 'n such. Peace out. 1
muppy Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/politics/giuliani-trump-legal-team-press-briefing-fact-check/index.html a fact check posting regarding the Guiliani press conference from earlier today. if the charges they are alleging are in fact proven in a court of law to have occurred I think our democracy is in serious trouble. This article explains and debunks them however and if nothing else informative as to why they may be tossed out eventually ... It seems nearly impossible to know what is true and what isn't we are bombarded with mixed messages constantly and both sides claim truth on their side. 19 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I appreciate the effort put forth and have very few issues with what you post. I do not accept everything you say as factual, and feel like I do not need to. The other day, you quoted from Vox, and referenced a book that was titled something like "Trump is the most horrible human being ever". I started to reply and thought, geesh, what's the point? A guy wrote a book, you believe it's an accurate representation of the world and that's fine. I really enjoyed the novel "It" back in college, but I don't think there are clowns in the sewer. Your argument is irrefutable--human error occurs when human's are involved. Your second statement--"for the most part these are caught and corrected...." is conjecture. Pure conjecture, as in, just because you say it doesn't mean it is so. Bernie Madhoff did amazing things as an investment guru for many, many people, until he didn't. I'm skeptical by nature, and cynical as well. I'll share some general thoughts about people and systems: I believe that systems can be hacked, and that algorithms can be manipulated to effect a desired outcome. Since I believe that generally, when an allegation is made that malfeasance occurred, I consider the source and continue on; I believe in the innate goodness of many people, and the corruption of people in power. You and yours sit here, day after day, year after year, howling about DJT, believing incredible stories of hookers and urine (pee pee), screaming about corruption and then suggest "NOTHING TO SEE HERE--Trust me!". I don't care--seriosuly--don't care what you think, and I certainly do not trust those in power anymore than your trust Trump; I believe that people will, if possible, attempt to influence the election through just about every form of illegal activity known to man. Software. Pipe breaks. Mail fraud. Dead people voting. Keeping poll watchers at bay. Intimidation. Harrassment. Murder. It's simply the human condition. The interesting part to me is that you believe it too, you just target the other guy. And, to be fair to you--I really don't know if you're the one true angel left in the world who believes that the election system is beyond reproach, but id you are God bless you. Here's where I'm at: Thousands of ballots have been recovered in Georgia, previously uncounted, potentially disenfranchised voters. We can write it off to incompetence, or wonder if there is something else afoot, and I'm not ready to write it off as pure incompetence; I've read reports of severe and substantial issues with Dominion software, including a very concerning letter written by Sens Warren and Klobuchaer in early 2019. The sum and substance is--this thing sucks, its easy to manipulate and the integrity of our election is at stake. The oft-cited report of vote tallies being shut down with Trump far ahead, a sudden spike in votes for Biden...troubles me. There may be a perfectly legitimate reason for the spike--and yes, I've read stories purporting to debunk the idea of fraud, but I'm not yet convinced. Since I'm not convinced, I say fight on; The story out Wayne County, Michigan involving the certification process troubles me. It seems to me that intimidation and coercion played a large part in decisions made there, and it validates my thought that while lots of people are good, many are not. I'm interested in the outcome of the Wisconsin recount. The entire system for counting votes in Pennsylvania seems odd to me. The allegations made today are that there were violations of election law, and unequal protection under the law as it related to city v rural areas. When all is said and done, I've been clear that I think Joe Biden will be president of the country on 1/20. I'll likely arrive at that point convinced there was substantial chicanery (funny business) that aided him along the way. Still, I see absolutely nothing wrong with DJT pursuing litigation and telling the story they feel needs to be told along the way. Thanks for the clarification, too, btw, but I know what the word 'posit' means. I went to Catholic school, received an excellent education(schoolin) and read, you know, books 'n such. Peace out. Brophy Prep (Jesuit) and Notre Dame alumn says hello (Mr Muppy) and he would agree his education was excellent.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 21 minutes ago, Muppy said: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/politics/giuliani-trump-legal-team-press-briefing-fact-check/index.html a fact check posting regarding the Guiliani press conference from earlier today. if the charges they are alleging are in fact proven in a court of law to have occurred I think our democracy is in serious trouble. This article explains and debunks them however and if nothing else informative as to why they may be tossed out eventually ... It seems nearly impossible to know what is true and what isn't we are bombarded with mixed messages constantly and both sides claim truth on their side. Brophy Prep (Jesuit) and Notre Dame alumn says hello (Mr Muppy) and he would agree his education was excellent. 😂 I have no such pedigree—The closest we got to ND was watching the college games on the television because my Dad was a huge Irish fan for all the usual reasons. Oh, and in Boston one night last year, my wife (Mrs Skin-erd if you will) and I ducked into a bar in Boston. Busy as hell, this group of ND alumni were watching a/the game and offered us seats at the table. Had a blast and if you and Mr Mup were in the crowd, cheers!! As for part one—yup, I agree. If the allegations are true, we’re in deep. Btw, one other thing—i am struggling as to why a couple wealthy players on the team— Sidney Powell and Lin Wood, would wade so deep into serious accusations if they had absolutely nothing to go on. Both are quite wealthy, well-regraded and they aren’t shooting spitballs, they’re lobbing grenades at this issue with Dominion. Again, just chatting here, given the concerns expressed by Elizabeth “Dances with Beers” Warren about major challenges with the program, I’m intrigued. 1
SoTier Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) On 11/18/2020 at 10:18 AM, SoCal Deek said: I think it’s WAY WAY simpler than that. In 2020 Democratic leaning voters chose the party that claimed they’re going to completely eliminate TWO big monthly bills: Health Insurance and Student Loans. Trump on the other hand didn’t promise to do either. Election over! "Democratic leaning voters" voted a wannabe dictator out of office. A lot of 'Republican leaning voters" also voted a wannabe dictator out of office as Biden won the popular vote by 6 million while Republicans lower down the ticket did much better. If this was just a party line vote, the Republicans would have lost the Senate and suffered more losses in the House as well as in states. Instead, many voters voted against Trump but did vote for Republicans down ticket. Edited November 20, 2020 by SoTier
muppy Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: 😂 I have no such pedigree—The closest we got to ND was watching the college games on the television because my Dad was a huge Irish fan for all the usual reasons. Oh, and in Boston one night last year, my wife (Mrs Skin-erd if you will) and I ducked into a bar in Boston. Busy as hell, this group of ND alumni were watching a/the game and offered us seats at the table. Had a blast and if you and Mr Mup were in the crowd, cheers!! As for part one—yup, I agree. If the allegations are true, we’re in deep. Btw, one other thing—i am struggling as to why a couple wealthy players on the team— Sidney Powell and Lin Wood, would wade so deep into serious accusations if they had absolutely nothing to go on. Both are quite wealthy, well-regraded and they aren’t shooting spitballs, they’re lobbing grenades at this issue with Dominion. Again, just chatting here, given the concerns expressed by Elizabeth “Dances with Beers” Warren about major challenges with the program, I’m intrigued. he was in the stadium for the "Rudy" game portrayed in the movie. He is the domerest domer there is...as big a fan of the Irish as I am the Bills..i think my football interest was a huge turn on to him LOL actually I KNOW it was. I keep hoping the Bills would draft a domer so far no such luck. I wanted Chase Claypool Badly but I'll settle for stefon Diggs HA as far as the election Im definitely watching and waiting this out. I honestly fear for our country if this election is reversed. Im not so naive to think the democrats will acquiesce and its gonna be UGLY if that happens...If Trump is found to have lost you I doubt that side sits idly by either what a Mess.....Lord have mercy. I hate this is going on frankly its a horrible look for our country AND its democracy. If reforms would help this not occur ever again, even the appearance of malfeasance Id be all for it. 100%.... 1
snafu Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I appreciate the effort put forth and have very few issues with what you post. I do not accept everything you say as factual, and feel like I do not need to. The other day, you quoted from Vox, and referenced a book that was titled something like "Trump is the most horrible human being ever". I started to reply and thought, geesh, what's the point? A guy wrote a book, you believe it's an accurate representation of the world and that's fine. I really enjoyed the novel "It" back in college, but I don't think there are clowns in the sewer. Your argument is irrefutable--human error occurs when human's are involved. Your second statement--"for the most part these are caught and corrected...." is conjecture. Pure conjecture, as in, just because you say it doesn't mean it is so. Bernie Madhoff did amazing things as an investment guru for many, many people, until he didn't. I'm skeptical by nature, and cynical as well. I'll share some general thoughts about people and systems: I believe that systems can be hacked, and that algorithms can be manipulated to effect a desired outcome. Since I believe that generally, when an allegation is made that malfeasance occurred, I consider the source and continue on; I believe in the innate goodness of many people, and the corruption of people in power. You and yours sit here, day after day, year after year, howling about DJT, believing incredible stories of hookers and urine (pee pee), screaming about corruption and then suggest "NOTHING TO SEE HERE--Trust me!". I don't care--seriosuly--don't care what you think, and I certainly do not trust those in power anymore than your trust Trump; I believe that people will, if possible, attempt to influence the election through just about every form of illegal activity known to man. Software. Pipe breaks. Mail fraud. Dead people voting. Keeping poll watchers at bay. Intimidation. Harrassment. Murder. It's simply the human condition. The interesting part to me is that you believe it too, you just target the other guy. And, to be fair to you--I really don't know if you're the one true angel left in the world who believes that the election system is beyond reproach, but id you are God bless you. Here's where I'm at: Thousands of ballots have been recovered in Georgia, previously uncounted, potentially disenfranchised voters. We can write it off to incompetence, or wonder if there is something else afoot, and I'm not ready to write it off as pure incompetence; I've read reports of severe and substantial issues with Dominion software, including a very concerning letter written by Sens Warren and Klobuchaer in early 2019. The sum and substance is--this thing sucks, its easy to manipulate and the integrity of our election is at stake. The oft-cited report of vote tallies being shut down with Trump far ahead, a sudden spike in votes for Biden...troubles me. There may be a perfectly legitimate reason for the spike--and yes, I've read stories purporting to debunk the idea of fraud, but I'm not yet convinced. Since I'm not convinced, I say fight on; The story out Wayne County, Michigan involving the certification process troubles me. It seems to me that intimidation and coercion played a large part in decisions made there, and it validates my thought that while lots of people are good, many are not. I'm interested in the outcome of the Wisconsin recount. The entire system for counting votes in Pennsylvania seems odd to me. The allegations made today are that there were violations of election law, and unequal protection under the law as it related to city v rural areas. When all is said and done, I've been clear that I think Joe Biden will be president of the country on 1/20. I'll likely arrive at that point convinced there was substantial chicanery (funny business) that aided him along the way. Still, I see absolutely nothing wrong with DJT pursuing litigation and telling the story they feel needs to be told along the way. Thanks for the clarification, too, btw, but I know what the word 'posit' means. I went to Catholic school, received an excellent education(schoolin) and read, you know, books 'n such. Peace out. ! Official sources called this election already (or not). All debunked, nutbar. Nothing to see here. Don’t even question it. It harms our democracy to do so. Stop harming.
WideNine Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I appreciate the effort put forth and have very few issues with what you post. I do not accept everything you say as factual, and feel like I do not need to. The other day, you quoted from Vox, and referenced a book that was titled something like "Trump is the most horrible human being ever". I started to reply and thought, geesh, what's the point? A guy wrote a book, you believe it's an accurate representation of the world and that's fine. I really enjoyed the novel "It" back in college, but I don't think there are clowns in the sewer. Your argument is irrefutable--human error occurs when human's are involved. Your second statement--"for the most part these are caught and corrected...." is conjecture. Pure conjecture, as in, just because you say it doesn't mean it is so. Bernie Madhoff did amazing things as an investment guru for many, many people, until he didn't. I'm skeptical by nature, and cynical as well. I'll share some general thoughts about people and systems: I believe that systems can be hacked, and that algorithms can be manipulated to effect a desired outcome. Since I believe that generally, when an allegation is made that malfeasance occurred, I consider the source and continue on; I believe in the innate goodness of many people, and the corruption of people in power. You and yours sit here, day after day, year after year, howling about DJT, believing incredible stories of hookers and urine (pee pee), screaming about corruption and then suggest "NOTHING TO SEE HERE--Trust me!". I don't care--seriosuly--don't care what you think, and I certainly do not trust those in power anymore than your trust Trump; I believe that people will, if possible, attempt to influence the election through just about every form of illegal activity known to man. Software. Pipe breaks. Mail fraud. Dead people voting. Keeping poll watchers at bay. Intimidation. Harrassment. Murder. It's simply the human condition. The interesting part to me is that you believe it too, you just target the other guy. And, to be fair to you--I really don't know if you're the one true angel left in the world who believes that the election system is beyond reproach, but id you are God bless you. Here's where I'm at: Thousands of ballots have been recovered in Georgia, previously uncounted, potentially disenfranchised voters. We can write it off to incompetence, or wonder if there is something else afoot, and I'm not ready to write it off as pure incompetence; From both conservative-leaning and left-leaning resources: these appear to have been votes that had failed to be uploaded from a memory card. There were actually 2,508 ballots on the memory card. 1643 for Trump and 865 for Biden. It was human error caught during their normal audit processes, but human error is incompetence. Still caught by their audit, and insufficient to sway the margin. I've read reports of severe and substantial issues with Dominion software, including a very concerning letter written by Sens Warren and Klobuchaer in early 2019. The sum and substance is--this thing sucks, its easy to manipulate and the integrity of our election is at stake. According to a Joint Statement by the federal government agency that oversees U.S. election security, the Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA): "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised." The government & private sector councils that support this mission called the 2020 election "the most secure in American history." Dominion walks through each unsubstantiated claim on their site - it is worth a visit just to see the sheer volume of conspiracy claims out there - contrary to rumor they are a non-partisan company whose machines have been used to tabulate wins for GOP candidates as well: https://www.dominionvoting.com The oft-cited report of vote tallies being shut down with Trump far ahead, a sudden spike in votes for Biden...troubles me. There may be a perfectly legitimate reason for the spike--and yes, I've read stories purporting to debunk the idea of fraud, but I'm not yet convinced. Since I'm not convinced, I say fight on; The spike in voting was completely expected and in some ways engineered by GOP policy towards restricting the pre-canvasing of mailed in ballots. In PA for instance the GOP led state senate would only offer a 3 day lead for their election committees to begin counting the huge backlog of mailed in ballots, but only if they took a poison pill in the bill that severely restricted ballot drop boxes throughout the state - they refused and the backlog grew even larger. As most Republicans vote in person, and more Democrats vote by mail it is expected that if you create a huge backlog of mailed ballots to process you are going to see the early in-person vote leads for a GOP candidate dwindle away as the election offices catch up processing all the stacks of mailed in ballots and adding those to the official tallies. This is not conspiracy, it is the natural course of cause and effect. The story out Wayne County, Michigan involving the certification process troubles me. It seems to me that intimidation and coercion played a large part in decisions made there, and it validates my thought that while lots of people are good, many are not. If you are referring to the poll books at precincts being out of balance with the actual votes tabulated at those precincts it is best to know some history there. First, the precinct that the 2 GOP representatives were stalling on certifying encompassed heavily-democratic Detroit which is predominantly black communities. However, there were poll book balance issues in many suburban communities as well including Livonia which is a major white suburb that were being certified sans questions. There were similar issues with poll books being out of balance during the 2016 election that Trump won and the August primary earlier this year. The canvassing board certified the results after each of those elections. When the poll books are unbalanced, those precincts can't be used as part of a recount. Before the county board reversed its decision, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson issued a statement saying, "It is common for some precincts in Michigan and across the country to be out of balance by a small number of votes, especially when turnout is high. Importantly, this is not an indication that any votes were improperly cast or counted." Of course pressure was put on the GOP hold outs as they held a public forum and folks were pissed that there was a chance their votes were selectively going to be left out of the certification. Also if they did not certify for Wayne County, then they should also have to throw out their certifications for the other counties that had poll books that were out of balance. As there is little-to-no precedence in MI for canvassing boards failing to certify votes in the past with these minor discrepancies then it will likely fail in court to stop certification. That being said, Michigan may want to overhaul their poll book processes to ensure they better align with vote tabulations as it appears to be a state-wide quality issue. I'm interested in the outcome of the Wisconsin recount. I am too as Trump ponied up 7.9 million to pay for it and I am betting (considering the results of past recounts) it will barely move the needle. The entire system for counting votes in Pennsylvania seems odd to me. The allegations made today are that there were violations of election law, and unequal protection under the law as it related to city v rural areas. Not sure of any formal allegations - do you have a case or docket info before a PA court? I have heard the protections argument that Trump's lawyers have tried to dust off from the Bush vs. Gore case, but that has been soundly dismissed by judges as the rules that are being contested were rules put in place prior to the state's election by their legislature, not attempts to enact election rules after the fact. When all is said and done, I've been clear that I think Joe Biden will be president of the country on 1/20. I'll likely arrive at that point convinced there was substantial chicanery (funny business) that aided him along the way. Still, I see absolutely nothing wrong with DJT pursuing litigation and telling the story they feel needs to be told along the way. Thanks for the clarification, too, btw, but I know what the word 'posit' means. I went to Catholic school, received an excellent education(schoolin) and read, you know, books 'n such. Peace out. I am glad you know what posit means, as I probably read too much and grew up in a family of readers too. I get the "huh?" when I use words or phrases that to me are perfect in a particular context. I do get a fair amount of knuckle-dragging mono-syllabic responses from many of the Trump supporters so admittedly made a wise ass assumption that looked pretty elitist in hindsight. Regardless, I can see why you went there with your comment and that was a justifiable rebuke. This is a multi-faceted discussion with a lot of misinformation floating around so it is surprising that there is less serious discussion - I took the time to comment on the items you posted above. They are either counterpoints or clarifications or one where we align, but likely have different hopes for the outcome. As acceptable sourcing seems to be at the hard to come by regarding qualifying the value of recounts, I did find this one non-partisan site that also links to raw recount data and summary results if you are interested. https://www.fairvote.org/recounts Edited November 20, 2020 by WideNine
Buftex Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 On 7/3/2020 at 7:12 AM, Kemp said: https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/april-may-june-2019/how-trump-could-lose-the-election-and-remain-president/ Judging by some of the nut jobs here, a lot of his supporters will back him up. At that point we would officially be a dictatorship. The biggest idiots here will cite as proof of wrongdoing, tweets from people you have never heard of. That's how deep their evil and stupidity runs. I guarantee that if this horrible scenario comes to pass, that the scum will embrace their beloved dictator. That is what scum does. Some here would probably admit they would follow him. Others might say they won't (I doubt it), but in the end, we know that the stupid and evil will. We all know that more people will vote for Biden than Trump, even if some won't admit it. Most of us also know that the most insecure man in America will not go quietly, as every previous loser has. He would rather destroy the country than just leave the White House. So would a good deal of his followers. Hopefully he just bellows and leaves. If not, America will be on the scrap heap of history. This has aged very well. 2
WideNine Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, Buftex said: This has aged very well. I think at this point Kent can change the OP title to say "When Trump loses and refuses to leave" I honestly did not want Trump to gracefully concede or show any kind of dignity befitting the office of the US Presidency. I wanted him to live down to the terrible character I had ascribed to him over the years - not disappointed. 2
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, snafu said: ! Official sources called this election already (or not). All debunked, nutbar. Nothing to see here. Don’t even question it. It harms our democracy to do so. Stop harming. i also see dead people. does that make me weird(er)? 1
Big Blitz Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 Trump really needs to stop undermining the results of a Democratic election. Its unprecedented .. ....
SoTier Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 8 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: The myth of an orderly transition of power is just that. Biden will be fine if he gets in--he's waxed eloquently on his COVID plan, he can normalize relations with the Chinese, he can get more cash to the Iranians as soon as January 22, and he's a 50 year diplomat. Rumor has it he's getting all sorts of briefings on the downlow. I'm wondering what December surprise DJT might have for him. Does he expel the Chinese "diplomats" or those of another nation intent on doing us harm? I think it would be pretty interesting to see how Biden responds to that sort of thing. Still-I pass on your request. Why is an orderly transition of power a myth??? When was there NOT an orderly transition from one presidential administration to another with the possible exception of when a sitting POTUS died suddenly in office until Trump got whipped in both the popular and electoral vote and cried foul without a shred of evidence? 7 hours ago, shoshin said: What I'm saying is that you can never prevent every human error. I worked at the polls. I'll use rough numbers to explain an error that happened. We were given 500 blank ballots. We recorded 300 votes in our machine, and also had a handwritten record of 300 people voted. At the end of the night, we had 201 ballots when we should have had 200. Somehow, there was 1 extra ballot. There are a lot of reasons this could happen, and we think we figured out why but the bottom line on this is: There was no fraud, just a screw up somewhere. Every year, and particularly every 4, we set up pop-up Starbucks's manned by minimum wage workers with almost no training and that's how we do our democracy. It works because we trust our neighbors and our neighbors do their best. This year had more poll watchers and more active (Read: annoying, yes both sides!!) poll watchers than any year I've EVER seen. Because of all of that and understanding the imperfections inherent in the way we do things, I believe that every year, our system has gotten better: from ballots written by hand and counts delivered by horse-riders to hand-votes through the big boss era to hanging chad ballots to the all-computer systems that had few safeguards to our multi-check systems that we use today... if I could pick one era in which our elections are most likely to represent accurately the will of the people, it would be this one, bar none. The sore loser often cries foul play. With Trump, given who he is, that was inevitable. But in America, the loser has almost always conceded to the will of the people, respecting the imperfections inherent in a system that can never be perfect. And this concession is critical to the peaceful transfer of power that has happened through 45 presidencies. Well said! 👍 5 hours ago, oldmanfan said: All states do some form of auditing before certifying votes. You want the vote to be correct them complain when the procedures used to ensure that actually work. What are you looking for? What would solve whatever problem you have? Throwing out enough votes for Biden to insure that Covid Donnie gets what he wants.
Warcodered Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 Well the by hand audit in Georgia is done and surprise Biden won. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/georgia-hand-tally-of-votes-is-complete-affirms-biden-lead/ar-BB1b9i9N?ocid=msedgntp https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/historic_first_statewide_audit_of_paper_ballots_upholds_result_of_presidential_race It barely changed. I suppose they can do a recount still but I'll give you a hint a second recount is likely to change even less than the first one. 2
daz28 Posted November 20, 2020 Posted November 20, 2020 54 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Trump really needs to stop undermining the results of a Democratic election. Its unprecedented .. .... I believe Biden won the election. There is just no evidence of a vast election-stealing conspiracy I really didn't expect you to post something like this, but maybe you're coming around.
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