If Trump loses and refuses to leave

[Big Blitz]

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

What is the difference between this election and those in the past, even closer elections in both the popular vote and the Electoral college?

 

One person.  One child really who sits in the White House spewing out nonsensical tweets about how he won an election he clearly lost.   I have not asked anyone to surrender his rights - if this child wants to continue to act like a child and waste all the money that suckers (real suckers, not the ones he claimed served our country with honor) send to him more power to him.  But it is time for the ascertainment function to proceed so the incoming administration can get up to speed.  It is time for the Republicans to state this, as they would under opposite circumstances if it were a Democratic child throwing a tantrum.  It is time for an orderly transition of government to begin so the new administration is fully ready to face the domestic and foreign challenges it will face on January 20th.

 

If, through some bizarre upheaval of the space-time continuum and/or theft of the election, the current child maintains office, no harm will have been done by letting the process start now. 

The myth of an orderly transition of power is just that.  Biden will be fine if he gets in--he's waxed eloquently on his COVID plan, he can normalize relations with the Chinese, he can get more cash to the Iranians as soon as January 22, and he's a 50 year diplomat.  Rumor has it he's getting all sorts of briefings on the downlow.  

 

I'm wondering what December surprise DJT might have for him.  Does he expel the Chinese "diplomats" or those of another nation intent on doing us harm? I think it would be pretty interesting to see how Biden responds to that sort of thing.  

 

Still-I pass on your request. 

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Because mail in ballots were counted after.  And those came from more Democratic counties and cities.

Edited November 19, 2020 by oldmanfan

[jrober38]

33 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

You don't have to speculate, I was clear on what I said and who I consider a significant member of his team.  

 

As for those who chose not to continue, I personally believe that it's a mistake to assume they moved on simply because of the merits of the/a case.  That's certainly a possibility. However, based on the level of hatred and death threats leveled at participants, it's certainly a possibility that folks withdrew due to fear of retaliation and treats to them or their family.  It's a cottage industry these days. 

 

Really? 1-28 in court and you don't think his lawyers are jumping ship because of the merits of their cases?

 

You don't think maybe these elite lawyers you keep referring to looked at the facts in front of them (or lack thereof) and said, we're screwed because we have no evidence, and I'm not going to tarnish my reputation or my firms reputation making absurd claims that keep getting laughed out of federal court?

 

I know you're not looking at this from a practical perspective, but maybe that's what Trump's lawyers did.

[Westside]

52 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Al Gore contested an election that he lost by 500 votes.

Trump is contesting a handful of races that he lost by 10k-100k+ votes. 

 

His lawyers have dropped like flies because they have no case. They're unwilling to take cases that have no hope of being successful.

Rudy had to apply for emergency admittance to the Bar in PA because Trump didn't have any other lawyers there willing to take the case on Tuesday. He's the only grifter left willing to take donor's money and take up the losing legal battle. 

 

Those are the facts. You don't have to like them, but nothing I said is untrue. 

Link to these facts?

[jrober38]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

You'd think that on an "official" graph they'd have been able to spell "blue" correctly on the Y axis.

 

Also this, like every other conspiracy theory presented here has already been debunked. 

1 minute ago, Bidens_basement said:

Link to these facts?

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/11/17/rudy-giuliani-joins-trump-pennsylvania-lawsuit-after-other-lawyers-back-out/?sh=593684895805

 

Rudy literally had to ask for an emergency request to practice law in Pennsylvania because most of Trump's actual lawyers there quit.

Edited November 19, 2020 by jrober38

[TBBills]

12 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Stop embarrassing yourself by refusing to understand how it works. Even after it has been explained a million times idiots on twitter still posting same stupid *****... All b.c they get more clicks from idiots like you who are ignorant.

Edited November 19, 2020 by TBBills

[Buftex]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Because mail in ballots were counted after.  And those came from more Democratic counties and cities.

They are either being deliberately ignorant of this, or they just don't understand what they are looking at.

[TBBills]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

You'd think that on an "official" graph they'd have been able to spell "blue" correctly on the Y axis.

 

Also this, like every other conspiracy theory presented here has already been debunked. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/11/17/rudy-giuliani-joins-trump-pennsylvania-lawsuit-after-other-lawyers-back-out/?sh=593684895805

 

Rudy literally had to ask for an emergency request to practice law in Pennsylvania because most of Trump's actual lawyers there quit.

Hahahah I didn't even notice they spelt the graph wrong.... @Big Blitz tell Benny his sham fell apart at the poorly done graph.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Buftex said:

They are either being deliberately ignorant of this, or they just don't understand what they are looking at.

 

They're not hearing this on OANN or Newsmax therefore in their eyes there's no chance it's true.

 

The GOP relies on their ignorance and stubbornness to only live in an echo chamber where they only hear the things they want them to hear over and over again until their lies seem like the truth. 

[Westside]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

You'd think that on an "official" graph they'd have been able to spell "blue" correctly on the Y axis.

 

Also this, like every other conspiracy theory presented here has already been debunked. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/11/17/rudy-giuliani-joins-trump-pennsylvania-lawsuit-after-other-lawyers-back-out/?sh=593684895805

 

Rudy literally had to ask for an emergency request to practice law in Pennsylvania because most of Trump's actual lawyers there quit.

Two lawyers backed out, not exactly dropping like flies. That hatchet job of a write up by a progressive liberal hardly proves no case. 

Let's just let the courts sort it out. What are the Democrats worried about if everything is on the up and up?

After four years of saying election fraud, don't you think it should be investigated so it never happens again?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

10 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Really? 1-28 in court and you don't think his lawyers are jumping ship because of the merits of their cases?

 

You don't think maybe these elite lawyers you keep referring to looked at the facts in front of them (or lack thereof) and said, we're screwed because we have no evidence, and I'm not going to tarnish my reputation or my firms reputation making absurd claims that keep getting laughed out of federal court?

 

I know you're not looking at this from a practical perspective, but maybe that's what Trump's lawyers did.

Yes, I considered that possibility, outlined clearly in the paragraph that you took the time to reply to.  
 

I assume you have some type of reading comprehension issue, or a disorder that causes you to regurgitate information blissfully unaware of the context of the original text.  Either way, it’s pointless to engage further if you don’t follow basic concepts. 
 

 

[jrober38]

14 minutes ago, Bidens_basement said:

Two lawyers backed out, not exactly dropping like flies. That hatchet job of a write up by a progressive liberal hardly proves no case. 

Let's just let the courts sort it out. What are the Democrats worried about if everything is on the up and up?

After four years of saying election fraud, don't you think it should be investigated so it never happens again?

 

LOL

 

He had 3 lawyers. 

They all tried to quit.

 

The judge made one of them keep the case. A lawyer who knew their lawsuit was useless.

 

They couldn't find anyone else, so Trump sent Rudy, who isn't even allowed to practice law in PA, to argue the case.

 

No surprise they lost.

 

This is what will keep happening all over the country. It's what happens when you sue people and you don't have any actual evidence. 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, shoshin said:

The errors alleged in Wayne County were present in the neighboring counties (Trump counties). This came up in court yesterday or the day before--of course Trump attorneys don't want to recount those counties for ANY reason because that would ruin the narrative that only errors arise in Biden counties.

 

If Trump is looking for errors that would throw out the results, wouldn't he want to find ALL errors to nullify the results?

Errors are errors if the end result is to conclude that the results aren't trustworthy. 

 

If you're arguing that there were errors in both Trump's favor and Biden's favor, aren't you saying that the results are faulty?  Can you say that since the errors may cancel each other out, then the election results are all good, no harm no foul?  Are you saying that sine both sides may cheat, there's no point in looking?  The result comes down to which candidate's operatives cheat better?  Who wants elections like that? 

 

 

 

 

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

 

Here's my question for you--are you willing to set your hostility aside for a bit and answer the question---was George W Bush the "President-Elect' as commonly used in media publications when Florida certified their election and gave him the 271 EC votes?   

 

I'll ask @WideNine, @jrober38 and @shoshin the same question. Updated to include @oldmanfan to the list.  I can’t be accused of discriminating against the elderly. 
 

 

I don't know what the media called Bush back then. IT seems you presented an article that didn't call him Pres-Elect. I certainly always thought of him as such back then. The guy with the most votes at the end of the counting is usually the winner, even when there's a Hail Mary recount in Florida. 

 

Gore tried a 90 yard Hail Mary. Trump's Hail Mary is being thrown from Indonesia by the wrong Josh. 

 

Quote

 

Oh Shohsy, I get it. DJT has one lawyer and no one on his team that has any legal skill.  They should have tried to get that guy who won that Sandman kid all that money. 

 

Hey, you said that "He has some of the most vaunted legal minds in the county working on his behalf" and as support, linked to someone who hasn't argued an appellate case in 14 years. And I notice you did not link to Rudy. 

 

Trump has a legal team, of that I am sure. "The most vaunted legal minds," of that I am dubious. 

47 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Wait let me get this right: A predominantly D county released its vote--at a certain time--after counting them and that's proof of a conspiracy? 

 

Critical thinking is dead.  

Edited November 19, 2020 by shoshin

[shoshin]

7 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

If Trump is looking for errors that would throw out the results, wouldn't he want to find ALL errors to nullify the results?

Errors are errors if the end result is to conclude that the results aren't trustworthy. 

 

If you're arguing that there were errors in both Trump's favor and Biden's favor, aren't you saying that the results are faulty?  Can you say that since the errors may cancel each other out, then the election results are all good, no harm no foul?  Are you saying that sine both sides may cheat, there's no point in looking?  The result comes down to which candidate's operatives cheat better?  Who wants elections like that? 

 

 

What I'm saying is that you can never prevent every human error. I worked at the polls. I'll use rough numbers to explain an error that happened. We were given 500 blank ballots. We recorded 300 votes in our machine, and also had a handwritten record of 300 people voted. At the end of the night, we had 201 ballots when we should have had 200. Somehow, there was 1 extra ballot.

 

There are a lot of reasons this could happen, and we think we figured out why but the bottom line on this is: There was no fraud, just a screw up somewhere. 

 

Every year, and particularly every 4, we set up pop-up Starbucks's manned by minimum wage workers with almost no training and that's how we do our democracy. It works because we trust our neighbors and our neighbors do their best. This year had more poll watchers and more active (Read: annoying, yes both sides!!) poll watchers than any year I've EVER seen. Because of all of that and understanding the imperfections inherent in the way we do things, I believe that every year, our system has gotten better: from ballots written by hand and counts delivered by horse-riders to hand-votes through the big boss era to hanging chad ballots to the all-computer systems that had few safeguards to our multi-check systems that we use today... if I could pick one era in which our elections are most likely to represent accurately the will of the people, it would be this one, bar none. 

 

The sore loser often cries foul play. With Trump, given who he is, that was inevitable. But in America, the loser has almost always conceded to the will of the people, respecting the imperfections inherent in a system that can never be perfect. And this concession is critical to the peaceful transfer of power that has happened through 45 presidencies. 

[jrober38]

25 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

If Trump is looking for errors that would throw out the results, wouldn't he want to find ALL errors to nullify the results?

Errors are errors if the end result is to conclude that the results aren't trustworthy. 

 

If you're arguing that there were errors in both Trump's favor and Biden's favor, aren't you saying that the results are faulty?  Can you say that since the errors may cancel each other out, then the election results are all good, no harm no foul?  Are you saying that sine both sides may cheat, there's no point in looking?  The result comes down to which candidate's operatives cheat better?  Who wants elections like that? 

 

 

 

 

 

What errors?

 

The things you posted about were caught by the system, and the votes were counted correctly.

Edited November 19, 2020 by jrober38

[jrober38]

It's now being reported that Trump is flying a bunch of GOP state lawmakers from Michigan to Washington tomorrow to discuss the election results with him.

 

If people are looking for fraud, it's being committed by the guy in the White House. 

 

Can't discuss it on the phone or in writing, so they're going in person. Sounds straight out of a mob movie if you ask me. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by jrober38

[snafu]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

What errors?

 

The things you posted about were caught by the system, and the votes were counted correctly.

 

Ask Shoshin, I was responding to alleged errors he brought up in Wayne County, MI.

 

I can't believe I need to repeat myself again...the errors (which you initially said were nonexistent) were found.  Some were found and reported in the first count.  Some were found only after a recount which was ordered after pressures to do so.  Again, you're not fully correct.  Nobody has answered my question about why the "human errors" all go in one direction.  Keep in mind that there are representatives of both parties looking for irregularities in the same locations.  Why is it that no D observer found and Trump-favored "human error"?  I'm pretty sure they were looking at the progress of the vote.  Some states were and remain very close. If D poll watchers weren't looking then that's not Trump's problem.

 

I realize you said that nobody is looking for Trump-favored errors (I think that's erroneous, see above).  It is my opinion that nobody is looking for them at this point in time because if they are found, then that throws the election process and results MORE in doubt. You can't have NYT headlines blaring that NO fraud was found if there was Trump-favored fraud.  They didn't say anything about "human error" that affected thousands of votes in a couple key counties.  It is my assertion that not WANTING to seek the infirmities and steaming ahead is actually a threat to democracy.  Or, there are only one-sided infirmities, which is also a threat to democracy.

 

People who wring their hands over Trump's actions being a threat to democracy may not be looking at things from both directions.  I'm just asking a simple question.  If the results of an inquiry show that Biden won in spite of "human error" which solely ran in his favor, I'm for that result.  But count votes that are supposed to be counted and no more (that doesn't even address late-received ballots in PA). I don't care how long it takes. Why does anyone care how long it takes?

 

Here's an attempt at an analogy: People complain that there wasn't enough early Covid-19 testing in the U.S., but representatives from the U.S. weren't permitted into China to get samples in order to make the tests.  We had to wait until enough infected people were able to provide samples.  It is similar to election results.  There's no evidence until election night, and you've got self-serving election officials saying that they did everything right.  What election official is going to say that his or her employees are cheaters? 

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

Stop embarrassing yourself by refusing to understand how it works. Even after it has been explained a million times idiots on twitter still posting same stupid *****... All b.c they get more clicks from idiots like you who are ignorant.

 

 

No I don't.

 

Show me how it worked that those ballots that came in by mail weeks in advance had to be counted at 4am and why.

 

 

Thank you.