Warcodered Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Rob's House said: What's naive is accepting everything you hear at face value without skepticism. You didn't inquire as to any of the examples, yet you somehow know I'm "uninformed." Let me share just a small few of the endless stream of examples. I used to work in credit card fraud where an algorithm blocks a card based on spending patterns typical of stolen cards. The algorithm doesn't factor race, and no human eye evaluates the process, but I've had countless people tell me their card was stopped because of racism. In college a black guy claimed he got a B because the professor was racist. The school had another professor grade the paper without knowing who wrote it. He gave it a C. I used to work at a pizza place. We didn't deliver to certain neighborhoods because they were very highly ranked for murders per capital nationwide. But if I had a nickel for every time I heard it was because we were racist and hated making money if it meant black people got pizza I could retire early. That's just the tip of the iceberg of things I've experienced personally. I could go on about this all day. The overwhelming majority of claims of racism I've ever heard have been baseless or outright false. And that's prior to two months ago when for no particular reason everyone decided we were living in the 1800s again and everything under the sun suddenly became racist. I'm challenging previously and currently held beliefs and ideas right now any you and many others are afraid and threatened by this discussion. Why is that? If we need to "change" from the freest and most prosperous country in the history of the world, I'd like to be real clear on what we're changing, why and how. I'm not hearing a whole lot of substance. All I hear is that black Americans, who are the freest and most prosperous black people anywhere in the history of the planet, are woefully oppressed. This is based on ???, and to fix it we're going to ???. Burning cities, tearing down statues, and changing mascots doesn't seem effective. Neither does imposing your will on people to make them "uncomfortable" enough to comply with demands that you can't articulate in an effort to end whatever this "systemic racism" that you can't define or identify is. And pursuing "justice" against innocent people for things they never did, and claiming grievances for things you never experienced, is not any kind of "change" I'm interested in. That's cognitive dissonance. If you got something to say stand up and say it. So your saying all the racism you've seen has been fake so you don't think there is much out there? https://www.instagram.com/racistandunemployed/ stumbled across that the other day and while what it's about may be controversial it's filled with videos of people being pretty ***** racist.
K-9 Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Warcodered said: So your saying all the racism you've seen has been fake so you don't think there is much out there? https://www.instagram.com/racistandunemployed/ stumbled across that the other day and while what it's about may be controversial it's filled with videos of people being pretty ***** racist. Wait, so when I close my eyes, I’m actually not invisible?
machine gun kelly Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 Rob, seriously bud. I’ve never been against you in most threads and yes this is a great country. I can agree there, but that doesn’t mean we don’t metaphorically have warts. I’m a white Irish Catholic guy for a suburb in Buffalo, now living in FL. So basically, I’m a stereotype of what people of color would accuse me of being prejudiced. When working as a Regional Sales Director, I was commended for having the second highest diverse region on the country. My VP asked me how I did it as they are a fortune 100 company and my answer was simple. I make an extra effort to contract with a diversity recruiter as well as my close contacts. I then thoroughly vet every person who has the credentials to get an interview. Then I simply will not see color. If they are good, they are good. It’s that easy. In sales, a lot of times you call you’re right hand man who is a peer Leader you’re lieutenant. Mine for most of the time at this company I used to call him Captain Wilson. Why? Because he was African-American, was a captain in the air force, a deacon, and just a wonderful man. He always had my back. Stopping any prejudice starts at home. You just have to look through another man’s lense. I do my very best everyday. I teach it to my children. We have a great country, and great people, but to think there still isn’t prejudice is naive. That’s the point t of view from again a formerly Buffalo native Irish Catholic goofball. I honestly don’t know why we argue over these obvious points. 1 1
section122 Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Rob's House said: And that's prior to two months ago when for no particular reason everyone decided we were living in the 1800s again and everything under the sun suddenly became racist. I'm challenging previously and currently held beliefs and ideas right now any you and many others are afraid and threatened by this discussion. Why is that? If we need to "change" from the freest and most prosperous country in the history of the world, I'd like to be real clear on what we're changing, why and how. I'm not hearing a whole lot of substance. All I hear is that black Americans, who are the freest and most prosperous black people anywhere in the history of the planet, are woefully oppressed. This is based on ???, and to fix it we're going to ???. . I know the irony of your posts have already been pointed out but look at your top 2 lines. First stop with the hyperbole it will help your argument out. Everyone did not decide we are living in the 1800s and everything under the sun didn't become racist. That is not the conversation. The conversation is that black people are still not receiving the same treatment and opportunities that white people are. That black people are not receiving equal treatment from LEO's. It isn't every opportunity that isn't equal nor is it every LEO. I will give you some very quick examples that happen so much you might not even blink an eye (which IS the issue): Whenever a black athlete is "surprisingly well spoken" Someone making a racist joke in front of you. A lady clutching her purse when a black man gets on the elevator with her because she is scared. When talking about someone saying the black guy or girl as the differentiation. Have you ever used the inverse? These aren't "major things" but when enough of them pile up you can see that an issue exists and should be addressed. That's what is meant by systemic racism. It isn't that everyone is racist. It is that racism exists in forms many of us don't notice because we have never really paid attention. I'm not afraid to engage in this discussion with you. I am trying to understand your argument. I do wonder if you are being honest about challenging your beliefs as poster after poster has engaged you and been dismissed. To me (I won't assume the rests motives) people are asking to be treated fairly. It forced me to answer some of the questions I posed above and make me wonder why my answers were what they were. I have been challenging my beliefs and ideas and have come to the conclusion that they have a valid point. While I am not racist nor do I consider myself racist, I have allowed racist jokes to be made or racist language to be used and not spoken up. That has changed and that is the progress this movement is about. I grew up in a small town believe me racism still exists in the US. You have been very staunch in your position but have you ever thought to listen. I mean truly listen. Black comedians have been talking about run ins with the cops forever, why is that? Is it something they created? Or is there a kernel of truth? Have you ever spent any amount of time in an inner city setting (the projects if your will)? Have you talked to people about what it is like to grow up in that environment? That is the answer to your last question (how to fix). Instead of thinking that you as a white man know what the black experience is like, listen. Time and effort will fix this. The further we get from segregation the better. Both the sitting president and the dem nominee have some skeletons in their closet when it comes to racism. As younger generations come into positions of power this will get better. Right now we have a president who tweeted a video of a guy saying white power and a challenger who said if you don't vote for me your not black. That is a giant waving red flag that racism is still an issue in this country. In the mean time all we can do right now is try to be better. Challenge ourselves to learn and grow each and every day. Progress and growth is something we should all strive for each and every day. 2 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Rob's House said: What's naive is accepting everything you hear at face value without skepticism. Wouldn't you say it's at least equally naive to believe that ones personal experience represents a good barometer for the experience of people whose backgrounds and life experiences are much different? You know, like you do here: Quote I used to work in credit card fraud .... In college a black guy claimed....... I used to work at a pizza place...... If we're going to be un-naive and not accept things at face value, it's possible that the credit card algorithm mistakenly flagged transactions of black customers as fraudulent because their spending patterns matched the spending patterns of stolen cards; it's possible the "other professor grading the paper" was not as blinded to the identity of the author as you believe, or that both professors were reacting subconsciously to subtle clues in the writing that marked it as the work of a person of color but that did not impact the actual content or argument; it's possible that the pizza place was not flagging equally crime-ridden white neighborhoods, or was denying service to black neighborhoods that were no more crime ridden along with those with legit high crime rates. It's also possible that all these things you experienced did not have a racist cause, and yet those anecdotal experiences would not disprove that black and brown people may indeed start life in this country without an equal chance of equal success for similar personal qualities, or that black and brown people as a whole don't experience racism that may not stop them from achieving success, but that does impact them and affect their daily lives. Quote I'm challenging previously and currently held beliefs and ideas right now any you and many others are afraid and threatened by this discussion. Why is that? I think you mistake "others are afraid and threatened by this discussion" for "others choose not to engage with you because they perceive your posts and arguments as dogmatic and framed to reinforce your belief set, rather than having genuine intellectual interest in open exploration and exchange of information and ideas" Prove me wrong: explain what you would accept as convincing evidence that racism still exists, and that systemic racism hindered the success of black families through the late '60s and beyond. Quote If we need to "change" from the freest and most prosperous country in the history of the world Can you prove that we're the freest and most prosperous country in the history of the world? What are your criteria for this? Does it specifically include criteria for the prosperity and freedom of black and brown people, or is this just another way of saying "I got mine, Hell with You bub"? Quote All I hear is that black Americans, who are the freest and most prosperous black people anywhere in the history of the planet Rob, Rob, Rob, Rob. Don't you think it's naive of you to accept wherever you read or heard that, at face value? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_empires https://www.history.com/news/7-influential-african-empires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_District,_Tulsa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre https://www.history.com/news/georgia-racial-expulsion-stacey-abrams https://www.npr.org/2016/09/15/494063372/the-racial-cleansing-that-drove-1-100-black-residents-out-of-forsyth-county-gahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expulsions_of_African_Americans Some of these empires were pretty free and prosperous. Some of the residents of these towns and business districts, ditto What are your criteria and how can you prove that on average, black Americans today are freer and more prosperous than blacks living in historical black empires, the Ghana Empire, Mali, Aksum and Adal on the Horn, etc etc? Or blacks pre-1919 who had spent 50 years post-slavery working to achieve prosperity for their families only to have that wealth wrested from them during the bloody summer of 1919 and to be denied Government jobs when Wilson segregated the federal government? Don't confuse agreement with Travis Heath that debate with pseudo-intellectual white dudes about the existence and effects of racism in the US based upon assertion, personal experience as a white male, and personal belief bolstered by selected information interpreted selectively for being "threatened" or "upset" by you. 4 1
Dr. Who Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 3 hours ago, JoPoy88 said: Why wouldn’t they? The name is obsolete, or soon to be. They don’t sell Buffalo Braves gear either. I would buy Buffalo Braves gear . . .
DrDawkinstein Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Dr. Who said: I would buy Buffalo Braves gear . . . I want one of these so bad, but havent justified spending $100 on something I probably wont wear much. https://www.nbajerseyfan.store/2019-20-la-clippers-kawhi-leonard-classic-edition-buffalo-braves-white-jersey-p17904 1
Saxum Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 20 hours ago, Niagara said: You make 6 figures? You are mediocre and overpaid? And Mahomes is going to make 45 mil because he is black? He is including the two figures right of decimal point - IRS does.
Chandler#81 Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: I want one of these so bad, but havent justified spending $100 on something I probably wont wear much. https://www.nbajerseyfan.store/2019-20-la-clippers-kawhi-leonard-classic-edition-buffalo-braves-white-jersey-p17904 I got one for Xmas last year. 2
Saxum Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 3 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: Walmart and Target are pulling Redskins products off of the shelves Probably trying to return to vendor before vendor declares they will not take them back. 1
Bill from NYC Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wouldn't you say it's at least equally naive to believe that ones personal experience represents a good barometer for the experience of people whose backgrounds and life experiences are much different? You know, like you do here: it's possible the "other professor grading the paper" was not as blinded to the identity of the author as you believe, or that both professors were reacting subconsciously to subtle clues in the writing that marked it as the work of a person of color but that did not impact the actual content or argument; . Wow, just wow!!! Are you stating that it's a given that black people do not use proper English and that their writing gives it away? Subtle clues? OUCH!!! You probably are not a racist, but this is the way you sound. Imo, talking about "subtle clues" is in a league with calling black people "well dressed" or "well spoken," or even calling white people "smart players." Again, I strongly doubt that you are a racist, but; imho your post did not come off very well at all. Edited July 7, 2020 by Bill from NYC 2
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said: Rob, seriously bud. I’ve never been against you in most threads and yes this is a great country. I can agree there, but that doesn’t mean we don’t metaphorically have warts. I’m a white Irish Catholic guy for a suburb in Buffalo, now living in FL. So basically, I’m a stereotype of what people of color would accuse me of being prejudiced. When working as a Regional Sales Director, I was commended for having the second highest diverse region on the country. My VP asked me how I did it as they are a fortune 100 company and my answer was simple. I make an extra effort to contract with a diversity recruiter as well as my close contacts. I then thoroughly vet every person who has the credentials to get an interview. Then I simply will not see color. If they are good, they are good. It’s that easy. In sales, a lot of times you call you’re right hand man who is a peer Leader you’re lieutenant. Mine for most of the time at this company I used to call him Captain Wilson. Why? Because he was African-American, was a captain in the air force, a deacon, and just a wonderful man. He always had my back. Stopping any prejudice starts at home. You just have to look through another man’s lense. I do my very best everyday. I teach it to my children. We have a great country, and great people, but to think there still isn’t prejudice is naive. That’s the point t of view from again a formerly Buffalo native Irish Catholic goofball. I honestly don’t know why we argue over these obvious points. Serious question....why would you think people of color would stereotype you based on the 4 or 5 criteria you shared? At least insofar as the next person might be a Jewish guy from the Bronx? Or a female from Westchester County? Edited July 7, 2020 by leh-nerd skin-erd
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Wow, just wow!!! Are you stating that it's a given that black people do not use proper English and that their writing gives it away? Subtle clues? OUCH!!! You probably are not a racist, but this is the way you sound. Imo, talking about "subtle clues" is in a league with calling black people "well dressed" or "well spoken," or even calling white people "smart players." Again, I strongly doubt that you are a racist, but; imho your post did not come off very well at all. Thank you, Bill. I will be watching with great interest to see what replies are received to calling "racist" the suggestion that a professor reading a paper written by a student who may have grown up in a different culture may subconsciously recognize those cultural differences, and depending upon the details of his or her grading policy and rubric, that may result in marking it down. ? 3
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: I want one of these so bad, but havent justified spending $100 on something I probably wont wear much. https://www.nbajerseyfan.store/2019-20-la-clippers-kawhi-leonard-classic-edition-buffalo-braves-white-jersey-p17904 I believe @Chandler#81 received one of these as a cherished gift
Chandler#81 Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I believe @Chandler#81 received one of these as a cherished gift I did. An away one. (see previous page). The white home jerseys weren’t available last year as the Clippers didn’t wear them. Guess what I want for Xmas This year?
Rocky Landing Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Can you prove that we're the freest and most prosperous country in the history of the world? What are your criteria for this? Does it specifically include criteria for the prosperity and freedom of black and brown people, or is this just another way of saying "I got mine, Hell with You bub"? In fact, there are metrics for measuring freedom, the most respected being the Human Freedom Index sponsored by the Cato Institute, and others. (The Cato Institute was founded by Charles Koch, fo anyone wanting to cry "liberal.") Currently, the United States ranks 17th. 1
section122 Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Thank you, Bill. I will be watching with great interest to see what replies are received to calling "racist" the suggestion that a professor reading a paper written by a student who may have grown up in a different culture may subconsciously recognize those cultural differences, and depending upon the details of his or her grading policy and rubric, that may result in marking it down. ? To add to the further discrediting of @Rob's House anecdotal evidence... There is absolutely no way another Professor was brought in and simply told to grade the paper without that Prof asking why he needed to do so. The "new" Prof would have worked in the same department as the old one and would have been very aware of why he was doing it.
MJS Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said: Wow, just wow!!! Are you stating that it's a given that black people do not use proper English and that their writing gives it away? Subtle clues? OUCH!!! You probably are not a racist, but this is the way you sound. Imo, talking about "subtle clues" is in a league with calling black people "well dressed" or "well spoken," or even calling white people "smart players." Again, I strongly doubt that you are a racist, but; imho your post did not come off very well at all. I say white players are well dressed and well spoken as well. And I say black players are smart players too. Discuss...
Warcodered Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 26 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: In fact, there are metrics for measuring freedom, the most respected being the Human Freedom Index sponsored by the Cato Institute, and others. (The Cato Institute was founded by Charles Koch, fo anyone wanting to cry "liberal.") Currently, the United States ranks 17th. Hey there is a #1 in there somewhere. 3 minutes ago, MJS said: I say white players are well dressed and well spoken as well. And I say black players are smart players too. Discuss... Honestly this is something comes up so often that it's essentially a meme on here when interviews of potential/current draft picks get posted.
MJS Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Honestly this is something comes up so often that it's essentially a meme on here when interviews of potential/current draft picks get posted. Because we draft well spoken, well dressed, and smart players?
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