Thurman#1 Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 18 hours ago, Reader said: 2015 Tyrod is underrated on this board. 2015 Tyrod was sensational for his first seven games and then for the last seven was almost precisely what he would turn out to be ... he was already 2016 and 2017 Tyrod for that last half of the year in 2015. In game 8, Belichick showed how to defend him and he was never as effective again. His passer rating those last seven games of 2015 were within a point and a half of his career. He went from one game out of the first seven under a 91 passer rating (which is really really good) to four games out of seven below 83 (which is just not good). His last two years with the Bills his passer rating was 89. And that's what he was in the last half of 2015 too.
eball Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 11 hours ago, ScottLaw said: The whole "history of leading the team back in the 4th" can be a bit overblown. The Bills were either in control all game or the game was close as the offense struggled throughout.... much like Mark Sanchez and his "game winning 4th quarter comebacks." Context matters. I recall in December of 2016 against the Dolphins with playoffs on the line Tyrod bringing the team back down 11 in the 4th quarter to take a 3 point lead, before the defense blew it to go to overtime. Tyrod then led another drive in OT to put the team in position to win again only to have Carpenter miss the chip shot field goal. Didnt matter. Tyrod wasn't good enough consistently. It was a simple yes or no question. I see you’re incapable of answering it.
Thurman#1 Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 15 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Fairly decent article I think. Stats between him and TT are similar but Bills fans know the playing styles are completely different. I think he states the obvious that Josh needs to continue his improvement but details specifics on that. So overall pretty good. One comment on the DiMarco pass though. Allen gets ragged on continually for that throw, but the bottom line is DiMarco had it in his hands. He holds on we win. The throw may not have been the first choice, but the throw was there. DiMarco got one hand on it and it was raked out. That throw was there when Josh threw but there was no way to get it there before the safety arrived while still making it over the coverage. Still bothers me that he had two guys open, Brown for a first and Singletary probably for a first and certainly for 10 yards or so on a 2nd and 12 play. The Bills as a team weren't good enough but the same can be said of Allen.
Chaos Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 19 hours ago, eball said: OH. MY. GOD. Please let this season happen so these articles will stop. Everybody knows this is Allen's make-it-or-break-it season to show he is going to be "the man." EVERYBODY. How many "the Bills will only go as far as Josh Allen takes them" articles do we need? This season may or may not clear up whether or not he is the man. (I already think he is). But if he ends up statistically the 15th best QB in the league and the Bills win a playoff game, half the people on this board will anoint him QB for life. The other half will be certain he is holding us back from winning the Super Bowl.
BarleyNY Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 19 hours ago, Reader said: 2015 Tyrod is underrated on this board. That is correct at this time, but he was overrated on this board by most posters nearly the whole time he was here. If Allen doesn’t improve then I suspect he’ll get much the same treatment.
BillsFan2313 Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 That dude has a serious crush on Tyrod. It was crickets after the Jax playoff game, until this article. Barnwell is a joke.
Nextmanup Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 On 7/1/2020 at 11:46 AM, EasternOHBillsFan said: I'm not judging Allen until we see him with the amazing WR talent we have now with Diggs WR1. All of these stats are not relevant until they are all playing together. This is a common argument in support of poor QB performance. I never understood it. The problem is the WRs can't throw the ball to themselves. Allen's deficiencies will not be rectified by a better set of hands or a better route runner. They can only be rectified by a better QB. 1
thebandit27 Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 31 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: This is a common argument in support of poor QB performance. I never understood it. The problem is the WRs can't throw the ball to themselves. Allen's deficiencies will not be rectified by a better set of hands or a better route runner. They can only be rectified by a better QB. You really don’t believe that leading the NFL in dropped passes affected the offense? I mean, drops basically cost the team a 21-0 lead in the playoffs. It absolutely matters. 2
ILBillsfan Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 The comparison to TT is silly. I know last year when it was third and long it has been a long time that I felt this comfortable that the Bills actually had a QB that would convert those. It was nice to start to think that the Bills offense had a chance in those situations.
eball Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: Of course I’d prefer it, but let’s not sit here and act like Tyrod never had “4th quarter comebacks”.... despite years when the defense was complete trash. So one comeback in a game the Bills list counts the same as the 6 or 7 wins Josh has led late in his first two seasons?
NewEra Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 16 hours ago, eball said: It was a simple yes or no question. I see you’re incapable of answering it. Yes or no doesn’t allow for an agenda 1
NewEra Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: What agenda? I like Allen but it’s a bogus stat that doesn’t even scratch the surface of measuring consistent success for a QB in the league. Prime example being Mark Sanchez. I recall Byron Leftwhich being up there in “4th quarter comebacks”. He struggled the rest of the game though... and rest of his career. Come on man. You can’t sit here and tell me honestly, that you don’t have much more confidence in Josh Allen than Tyrod with the ball in his hand on the final drove to win the game. And you also can’t sit here and tell me that that doesn’t matter. It’s ridiculous 1
GoBills808 Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 I’d encourage everyone to give the article in question a close read. IMO Barnwell’s analysis does not pass muster.
GunnerBill Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) I was nodding along through the first bit of Barnwell's article... and then he seemed to just pluck the Tyrod Taylor comparison from nowhere. There was precisely one Josh Allen performance last year that was Tyrodish - @ Browns when he was holding the ball an age and not seeing or not trusting himself to throw to open receivers. It was his worst game of the year. It was after that game that McDermott issued his "play fearless" rallying cry. I think what had happened is after the turnovers early the Bills coaches had preached ball security to Allen and the Cleveland game was the one where he took that message too literally and played scared. The best thing about Allen is his willingness to take risks and play a bit of heroball. Look at most of the best Quarterbacks in the NFL currently..... Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, Jackson (not sold he belongs with the other 3 but he is the MVP)... they all play a bit of heroball when the play breaks down. I think the Bills hierarchy realised after Cleveland that they were at risk of coaching that out of Josh and adjusted. I'd like the training wheels off even more in 2020. Put the ball in the kid's hand, but the game on his back and let him throw - that is the difference between Josh and Tyrod. With Tyrod you had no chance of winning that way. With Josh I think it improves your odds. Just hope there is a season for him to demonstrate that. Edited July 3, 2020 by GunnerBill 5
Gugny Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I was nodding along through the first bit of Barnwell's article... and then he seemed to just pluck the Tyrod Taylor comparison from nowhere. There was precisely one Josh Allen performance last year that was Tyrodish - @ Browns when he was holding the ball an age and not seeing or not trusting himself to throw to open receivers. It was his worst game of the year. It was after that game that McDermott issued his "play fearless" rallying cry. I think what had happened is after the turnovers early the Bills coaches had preached ball security to Allen and the Cleveland game was the one where he took that message too literally and played scared. The best thing about Allen is his willingness to take risks and play a bit of heroball. Look at most of the best Quarterbacks in the NFL currently..... Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, Jackson (not sold he belongs with the other 3 but he is the MVP)... they all play a bit of heroball when the play breaks down. I think the Bills hierarchy realised after Cleveland that they were at risk of coaching that out of Josh and adjusted. I'd like the training wheels off even more in 2020. Put the ball in the kid's hand, but the game on his back and let him throw - that is the difference between Josh and Tyrod. With Tyrod you had no chance of winning that way. With Josh I think it improves your odds. Just hope there is a season for him to demonstrate that. I remember that game and saying the performance was "Tyrod-esque." And I agree 100% ... let the kid play his game. Especially with the long ball. Think long, think wrong. Just wing that ***** like you want to, Josh. 2
Wagon Circler Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 On 7/1/2020 at 12:12 PM, costrovs said: Personally, I wouldn't say say this is a make or break year for Allen. The playoff game? A 23 year old coming from a small college, in a small town to the NFL playoffs in his 2nd year. He was nervous. He looked just as nervous as he did the first half of his rookie season. No big deal. He's a smart dude, He'll get over the nerves either this season or the next one. Accuracy- Well jeez, he could be like every other QB out there and dump the ball off 10+ times a game instead of scrambling for 10+ yards.(but c'mon, we all really enjoy watching Allen run) Deep Pass- He can throw deep. It's a threat every time he's on the field. Defenses know that. Gone are the days of Defenses stacking 9 players at the line. He's the best QB we've had in YEARS. Personally, he's the most enjoyable QB to watch since pre concussion Edwards. Pre-concussion Edwards is underrated on this board. 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) I don’t know how “Football Smart” Barnwell is he’s reviewed all the young uns. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29402013/is-sam-darnold-last-chance-progress-report-jets-qb-expect-2020 Sams #s over the last 2 seasons have been horrid. Is his talent salvageable? Next MVP and 0-2 in the playoffs. Is there reason to worry? Can Baker be fixed? he apologizes to Rosen for No Comments So all in all. The supposed worst of the bunch is Josh who seems to be getting the better review. Edited July 5, 2020 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce
Ayjent Posted July 5, 2020 Posted July 5, 2020 When Barnwell wrote an article about how there is no such thing as momentum in sports a few years ago, it was clear to me that he never played sports and/or he was conveniently overlooking it for arguments sake to let stats explain a perceived phenomenon. Whatever his rationale, it was the type of thing that made me view him as someone that is interesting to read but no more valuable than used toilet paper. Stats can lack full context on their own, and as such any conclusions that don’t fully explain the context are useless and misleading. While there are certainly some statistical similarities between Tyrod and Josh. They are incredibly different players in different systems with much different talent surrounding them. Tyrod had a very talented team on offense around him with two OCs that knew how to utilize his strengths. I would think that a Roman would do wonders with Josh too, not to bag on Daboll, but he would be just as effective as Lamar Jackson in Lamar Jackson’s situation. Josh didn’t have that luxury, but I think he will be better for it down the line as he matures into a better passer. I think you have seen Lamar Jackson’s ceiling and that’s not a knock on Jackson -he is damn good. But so is Josh and I was no fan of the pick and thought the Bills were dumb for trading Tyrod with nothing but question marks and a crappy career backup in McCarron. I think there is a high probability Josh is a star for a long time. 1
Scott7975 Posted July 7, 2020 Posted July 7, 2020 I liked Tyrod Taylor but 3rd and long I am taking Josh Allen all day everyday. Josh makes plays and gets first downs. Taylor checked it down short of the sticks far too often.
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 On 7/5/2020 at 8:18 AM, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I don’t know how “Football Smart” Barnwell is he’s reviewed all the young uns. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29402013/is-sam-darnold-last-chance-progress-report-jets-qb-expect-2020 Sams #s over the last 2 seasons have been horrid. Is his talent salvageable? Next MVP and 0-2 in the playoffs. Is there reason to worry? Can Baker be fixed? he apologizes to Rosen for No Comments So all in all. The supposed worst of the bunch is Josh who seems to be getting the better review. Darnold’s numbers have been horrid? He essentially has the same passing stats as Allen. 19 hours ago, Scott7975 said: I liked Tyrod Taylor but 3rd and long I am taking Josh Allen all day everyday. Josh makes plays and gets first downs. Taylor checked it down short of the sticks far too often. We had a better 3rd down conversion rate with Tyrod. Do I think Allen lays it all on the line and will play more aggressively than Tyrod? Sure. Tyrod was conservative. But the end result hasn’t been that much different. Now, with the weapons he has, Allen needs to be a guy who wins games. Not in the 4th quarter after scoring 10 points all game. Like dominate from the jump, get a big lead, so the defense can tee off and we can blow teams out. I still wish we had a dominant pass rusher but this defense is SB caliber. But the offense has a ways to go.
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