Bill Barnwell on Josh Allen

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Josh Allen is the antithesis of Tyrod Taylor. Sometimes to his detriment, but a completely different QB all the same. 

Allen is at least attempting to be a quarterback. Taylor never did.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Cool.
 

Tyrod checks down too much, while Josh goes for the first down almost every time he has the chance.  

I don’t really disagree.  I always said I wish EJ had the attitude that Allen had.  But I think some of you act like he’s some crazy gunslinger and the reality is he’s been closer to Tyrod.  Like 200 yards passing in today’s nfl should not be an accomplishment.  
 

that said, hopefully with Diggs, the excuses will be done.  I want to see an Allen that if the defense slips up against a team like KC, Allen can win a game 31-27.  That’s when you know you have a franchise guy.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

46 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

I read this article early this morning. While I'm a big Allen supporter,  I thought the article was fair for the most part. I can't agree with the comparison to Tyrod, as he was going in to his 5th season when he arrived in Buffalo. Barnwell restated what we all know-  there are 2 sides to Josh. The how'd he make that play side,  and the WTF was he doing side.  Allen has to show progress again this year,  and this offense needs to get drops under control. 

I think it'll all work out. 

 

There's comparisons there though - uses his athleticism, not a tight window thrower, holds the ball sometimes, doesn't throw people open particularly often.  He improved at a lot of this stuff this past year, and impovements to his WRs definitely helped.  But i wouldn't say that last year the Bills WRs/TEs were anywhere near the top of the league.  More likely bottom 3rd. 

[Seasons1992]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

One big difference.  Tyrod was a check down machine on 3rd down if he wasn’t running for the first.  Josh never checks down on 3rd down.  Josh rarely checks down period.  
 

one plays it safe.  One goes for the win.

 

I definitely don't fear 3rd down anymore, like I did for a decade +.

[Reader]

16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I didn’t even really love Tyrod either.  But Bills fans do this and it’s weird.  Tyrod was a solid starting qb and won more than he lost.  We did this with Flutie.  
 

now Allen has essentially done a Tyrod impression and he is a future star while Tyrod is some bum.  It’s weird. 

 

I think since Allen has been compared to Tyrod often times in a negative way it is easy for us Bills fans to be quite defensive of Allen when we see the amount of determination, grit and ascensions Allen has had. The problem though is that for many it seems to confound their memory of Tyrod that causes them to remember a lot more of the bad than the good. In addition to that, I would think for some the idea of praising Tyrod would feel like it is minimizing Allen's accomplishments/potential.

[RochesterLifer]

44 minutes ago, H2o said:

He's comparing Taylor to JA by numbers alone. Any of us Bills fans who have watched the both of them for an extended period of time know the differences that lie outside of just numbers. Like Tyrod being captain check-down which inflates his completion percentage. Josh takes more shots, looking for larger chunks of yardage than did Taylor. We know about Tyrod not being anywhere as close to clutch as has been Josh. Josh can simply make throws that Tyrod couldn't make if his life depended on it. Tyrod had more agility than Josh and made some crazy plays avoiding tackles, but Josh is 5" taller and about 35lbs heavier than Tyrod so he doesn't go down as easy when hit. I would also like to see the percentage of drops during Tyrod being at the helm versus Josh as well if we are going by numbers. Either way, a lot of what he says is true. There is a reason to be both optimistic and pessimistic because of the things Josh has done on the field at certain points. But if you look at his first year compared to his 2nd year, then you see a ton of growth and maturation. We made the right choice in going all in on Allen over sticking with Tyrod.  

This, completely,

We had a fully developed, check-down game manager

We now have a developing swashbuckler

 

Whether you like Josh or not (me like), any comparison to Tyrod is a fail.

[HappyDays]

The problem with Tyrod is he got worse every season. We only have 2 years of data to look at for Allen but he's consistently gotten better from college to his rookie season, again into his 2nd year, and I think he played better the 2nd half of his 2nd year too. You can't just take Tyrod's numbers for 3 years with the Bills and make a 1:1 comparison with Allen's sophomore season.

Edited July 1, 2020 by HappyDays

[Buffalo Boy]

27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I thought that Dallas Cowboys game was the best of Allen’s career.  But man, some of you act like it was Brett Favre after his dad died.

 

1) the cowboys were frauds

 

2) Allen had 231 yards, 1 passing tds, 27 yards, 1 rush td.  Again, I think it was his best all around game but that is like an average game for most qbs.

 

3). https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TaylTy00/gamelog/2015/
 

TT had like 4 better games than that in 2015. 
 

of Allen doesn’t become better than TT, it will be disappointment.  But it’s weird how some of you disrespect him (and trust me, I was ready to move on from Taylor) to prop up Allen.  Allen has essentially been Taylor.  Now, can he take the next step and be the main reason why we win?  That’s a very reasonable question. 

2015 Taylor averaged 7.99 ypa.  Allen averaged 6.7 Ypa last year.  
 

 

Allen is not “ essentially Tyrod”. 
Different experience level/ years in league.

Different offenses.

Completely, diametrically opposed MOs for playing the game.

TT never saw a check down he didn’t drool over. JA has had to be taught, and is still learning, not to be a hero.

That said, I will take a “ Gunslinger” with arm talent over Captain Checkdown 2.0 with wheels every single time.

When JA has six years experience , hit me up and then we can compare stats, till then we will have to disagree.?

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Buffalo Boy said:

Allen is not “ essentially Tyrod”. 
Different experience level/ years in league.

Different offenses.

Completely, diametrically opposed MOs for playing the game.

TT never saw a check down he didn’t drool over. JA has had to be taught, and is still learning, not to be a hero.

That said, I will take a “ Gunslinger” with arm talent over Captain Checkdown 2.0 with wheels every single time.

When JA has six years experience , hit me up and then we can compare stats, till then we will have to disagree.?

I sincerely hope you’re right.  I really do.  I’m sick of thinking this qb is really going to be the next good one for the Bills and then reality hits.  I wish I was more sold on Allen.  I really do.  I hope you are right.

 

12 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

I definitely don't fear 3rd down anymore, like I did for a decade +.

2019 - 3rd down conversion : 37.34% https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2020-02-03
2015 - 3rd down conversion: 37.89%. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2016-02-08

[BuffaloRebound]

Hard to compare Tyrod and Josh when their offenses were completely different.  McCoy was the focal point of the offense for Roman.  Josh is the focal point for Daboll.  Josh is asked to do way more than Tyrod was.  I think the best comp to Josh is Newton.  

[Buffalo Boy]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I sincerely hope you’re right.  I really do.  I’m sick of thinking this qb is really going to be the next good one for the Bills and then reality hits.  I wish I was more sold on Allen.  I really do.  I hope you are right.

 

2019 - 3rd down conversion : 37.34% https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2020-02-03
2015 - 3rd down conversion: 37.89%. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2016-02-08

I do too.
He has a long way to go. In that we are in agreement 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Buffalo Boy

[Bulldog]

I also don't understand some of the negativity surrounding the memories of Tyrod Taylor among some fans. OK - Tyrod wasn't Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, however Tyrod was a competitive QB for us. He was a better QB than most of the guys that we have had since Jim Kelly retired & I enjoyed some of the occasional explosive runs that he made. Not to mention that Tyrod was the QB of the team that broke the playoff drought. Tyrod was not the QB that was going to lead us to a Super Bowl - however he was a good Buffalo Bill, a good teammate, & provided us with a more fond game memories than many of the other guys that have passed through here in recent years. That being said - I hope (but am not in any way sure) that Josh Allen will far surpass Tyrod Taylor as an NFL QB - he certainly has the potential to do so. Let's hope, for our sake, that he reaches that higher potential.  

 

 

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t really disagree.  I always said I wish EJ had the attitude that Allen had.  But I think some of you act like he’s some crazy gunslinger and the reality is he’s been closer to Tyrod.  Like 200 yards passing in today’s nfl should not be an accomplishment.  
 

that said, hopefully with Diggs, the excuses will be done.  I want to see an Allen that if the defense slips up against a team like KC, Allen can win a game 31-27.  That’s when you know you have a franchise guy.  

Fairly certain that if Allen played for a different HC, had better weapons and OL he’d be viewed more as a gunslinger than he currently is.  His first year he had no one to throw to and one of the worst OL/running attacks in the history of the league.  The additions of Brown and Beasley gave Allen 2 NFL caliber WRs, something he didn’t have year 1. The OL was MUCH improved with the additions of Morse, Spain, Ford, Feliciano and Nsekhe..... but the OL was still just average/below average.  

 

to your last paragraph, JA led the nfl in 4th Qtr comebacks and wins.  He was clutch imo.  Dropped passes plagued him all season and a phantom penalty on Ford ended his season when he was about to beat Deshaun Watson in playoff OT.  He’s a gamer in every sense of the word.  He hasn’t had a lot of time with comparable talent around him on O.  Hopefully Knox can not drop 20% of his targets, the OL can block properly with the game on the line and Daboll lets Josh be Josh.  

[Seasons1992]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I sincerely hope you’re right.  I really do.  I’m sick of thinking this qb is really going to be the next good one for the Bills and then reality hits.  I wish I was more sold on Allen.  I really do.  I hope you are right.

 

2019 - 3rd down conversion : 37.34% https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2020-02-03
2015 - 3rd down conversion: 37.89%. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2016-02-08

 

I didn't say I'm THRILLED with the percentage, but I feel we have a better chance these days. Darn statistics!

 

Anyway, how about that crockpot pulled pork?

[eball]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Fairly certain that if Allen played for a different HC, had better weapons and OL he’d be viewed more as a gunslinger than he currently is.  His first year he had no one to throw to and one of the worst OL/running attacks in the history of the league.  The additions of Brown and Beasley gave Allen 2 NFL caliber WRs, something he didn’t have year 1. The OL was MUCH improved with the additions of Morse, Spain, Ford, Feliciano and Nsekhe..... but the OL was still just average/below average.  

 

to your last paragraph, JA led the nfl in 4th Qtr comebacks and wins.  He was clutch imo.  Dropped passes plagued him all season and a phantom penalty on Ford ended his season when he was about to beat Deshaun Watson in playoff OT.  He’s a gamer in every sense of the word.  He hasn’t had a lot of time with comparable talent around him on O.  Hopefully Knox can not drop 20% of his targets, the OL can block properly with the game on the line and Daboll lets Josh be Josh.  

 

I think a lot of people are too caught up in stat lines, rather than what they watch with their own eyes.  JA's stats are what they are, and when compared across the league the yardage and completion percentage are poor.  But as you point out, the dude was clutch when we needed him to be and I'll take a winner over a stats-builder (think Jeff George, Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford -- all QBs a lot of posters on here would probably drool over) every day of the week.  Plays like the 4th down sneak against the Cowboys that completely swung momentum say more about JA than his per game passing yards -- at least to me.  He has everything in place this year to do both, and that's why Im excited.

[GaryPinC]

11 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

I also don't understand some of the negativity surrounding the memories of Tyrod Taylor among some fans. OK - Tyrod wasn't Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, however Tyrod was a competitive QB for us. He was a better QB than most of the guys that we have had since Jim Kelly retired & I enjoyed some of the occasional explosive runs that he made. Not to mention that Tyrod was the QB of the team that broke the playoff drought. Tyrod was not the QB that was going to lead us to a Super Bowl - however he was a good Buffalo Bill, a good teammate, & provided us with a more fond game memories than many of the other guys that have passed through here in recent years. That being said - I hope (but am not in any way sure) that Josh Allen will far surpass Tyrod Taylor as an NFL QB - he certainly has the potential to do so. Let's hope, for our sake, that he reaches that higher potential.  

 

 

I think the negativity is because of the disappointment that Tyrod has enough raw physical tools to be a great QB but failed to do so when we needed it the most at critical points in games.  With all the great things about him, it was obvious the team had no future with him so you magnify the negatives to compensate.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

57 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I didn’t even really love Tyrod either.  But Bills fans do this and it’s weird.  Tyrod was a solid starting qb and won more than he lost.  We did this with Flutie.  
 

now Allen has essentially done a Tyrod impression and he is a future star while Tyrod is some bum.  It’s weird. 

 

You know what's weird?  You going out of your way to defend every QB compared to Allen.  It's almost like you have an agenda you can't let go of.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We would have been 10-6 with 2015 Tyrod last year.  

I seriously doubt Tyrod makes all those 4Q comebacks/game-winning drives. He was a Trentative check down artist and would usually shrink and crumble when asked to win the game for you. Allen plays his best ball at winning time.

[eball]

To say that Tyrod and Josh play the same type of game is really not accurate.  You can look at stat sheets and compare numbers, but what do you see when you watch the games?  These guys play nothing like each other.  Can anyone tell me the last time Tyrod led a 4th quarter comeback?

[CorkScrewHill]

1 hour ago, eball said:

OH. MY. GOD.  Please let this season happen so these articles will stop.  Everybody knows this is Allen's make-it-or-break-it season to show he is going to be "the man."  EVERYBODY.  How many "the Bills will only go as far as Josh Allen takes them" articles do we need?

Given there is no actual sports going on I think you can place a bet on this with Vegas (they are desperate). I am going with the over on 64 articles.