eball Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Gugny said: Two years a row, it worked well enough to get to the playoffs and two years in a row playoff defenses shut it down. Not sustainable. The Ravens' window with Jackson at QB was small. Now it's shut. I know I'm in the minority, but I think in 5 years Jackson is a backup and Allen is a superstar. I'm curious to see just how much Jackson can improve his outside passing. That was his huge flaw last year, and the reason why teams with good defenses began to play them better. He claims he's been working on it. I guess if we say that Josh Allen can improve his deep ball, we should at least give Jackson the opportunity to show he can turn around a weakness also. And as you know, I'm somewhat of a Jackson skeptic -- but I'm trying to be evenhanded.
PetermansRedemption Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is true that Jackson is a much better thrower over the middle than he is to the outside - though short passes isn't entirely fair he does throw a pretty nice deep seam route too. I think the reason Antonio Brown could fit is he can work the middle of the field. Someone like John Brown as referenced above is a pure outside the numbers guy. Should be safe unless Vontaze Burfict is able to re-enter the league ? 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 55 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I’d expect any bills fan to feel this way. In my view Lamar was way more polished and talented at the start. Whoever works harder and keeps pushing to get better will come out on top. in Lamar’s case and probably josh athleticism had peaked. Either they develop as passers or they will fizzle out and end up as 7 million dollar back ups in New England I think this is very fair. I had Allen and Jackson ranked equal when they both came out. Some super impressive skills but also some major flaws in the passing game. I will say I’m shocked at how good Jackson is at this point. what does bother me (and it’s a Bills board so I get it but I do enjoy rational football talk), Jackson gets dismissed so much. He had a 5’9” 170 lbs rookie receiver; Willie Snead!!!; and a 2nd year 3rd round TE to throw to. And he won the MVP at 23. After winning a Heisman trophy. Yet, somehow, he has peaked while Allen (who has never been better than him on any level) is ascending. there is a world where both could be good. But if Jackson was a Bull and just had that season, we will murder people for questioning a 23 year old league MVP.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 honestly.... I think AB is getting as much attention as Kaep and Clowney. Little to none
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: honestly.... I think AB is getting as much attention as Kaep and Clowney. Little to none I will bet you money Clowney will be the nfl this year (assuming there’s a season).
GunnerBill Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think this is very fair. I had Allen and Jackson ranked equal when they both came out. Some super impressive skills but also some major flaws in the passing game. I will say I’m shocked at how good Jackson is at this point. what does bother me (and it’s a Bills board so I get it but I do enjoy rational football talk), Jackson gets dismissed so much. He had a 5’9” 170 lbs rookie receiver; Willie Snead!!!; and a 2nd year 3rd round TE to throw to. And he won the MVP at 23. After winning a Heisman trophy. Yet, somehow, he has peaked while Allen (who has never been better than him on any level) is ascending. Yea Jackson's weapons are way overstated..... those TEs were nobodies until Lamar started throwing to them. Mark Andrew, Hayden Hurst and Nick Boyle probably were not even on the radar of any semi serious fan or fantasy player before Jackson took the job. If people want to say he had a great line and a great coordinator then they will get no argument from me. But his weapons were pretty meh.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea Jackson's weapons are way overstated..... those TEs were nobodies until Lamar started throwing to them. Mark Andrew, Hayden Hurst and Nick Boyle probably were not even on the radar of any semi serious fan or fantasy player before Jackson took the job. If people want to say he had a great line and a great coordinator then they will get no argument from me. But his weapons were pretty meh. Yep... imo, the biggest weapon in that offense after Lamar was Ingram who I feel is extremely underrated. 49 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think this is very fair. I had Allen and Jackson ranked equal when they both came out. Some super impressive skills but also some major flaws in the passing game. I will say I’m shocked at how good Jackson is at this point. what does bother me (and it’s a Bills board so I get it but I do enjoy rational football talk), Jackson gets dismissed so much. He had a 5’9” 170 lbs rookie receiver; Willie Snead!!!; and a 2nd year 3rd round TE to throw to. And he won the MVP at 23. After winning a Heisman trophy. Yet, somehow, he has peaked while Allen (who has never been better than him on any level) is ascending. there is a world where both could be good. But if Jackson was a Bull and just had that season, we will murder people for questioning a 23 year old league MVP. I know- he’s limited because he Sub planted a super bowl mvp, threw for over 3k yards @66% and rushed for 1200 last season in 15 gms, won league mvp, got team to playoffs, won division, first team all pro, probowl offensive mvp, led league in touchdown passes... generated 500 yards of offense vs titans in playoffs meh , he’s peaked Edited July 1, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood
Alphadawg7 Posted July 1, 2020 Author Posted July 1, 2020 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I have Baltimore as a the Superbowl favourite at this point. Unless Jackson regresses they are better than KC at this point for me. They addressed their weaknesses in the middle of the defense and they gave Jackson a 2nd legit runner because Ingram's old legs definitely wore down as last season went on. I like Seattle. I think they will win the NFC West but the NFC road to the Superbowl is still a tougher one right now than the AFC. Without a doubt, Ravens are gonna be too contender heading into season. BUT, for me, SF and Bills exposed how to slow the offense down, and other teams picked up on it and once they did, Ravens jugger-naught offense wasn’t the same unstoppable force and they got bounced from the playoffs. I need to see they can maintain their style of play before I make them the favorites. Rams were crazy powerful offense, Bears exposed how to defeat that McVay offense and they haven’t been the same since. Until I see the Ravens can adapt and sustain that offense to prove it wasn’t just an early fluke before teams figured out how to slow it down, I can’t label them the favorite over KC. It’s certainly possible they could prove to be the best team, roster is great. Just need to see them bounce back after they got figured out somewhat by SF and Bills before getting bounced in the playoffs. But this is splitting hairs, I still have them as the number 2 team.
GunnerBill Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Without a doubt, Ravens are gonna be too contender heading into season. BUT, for me, SF and Bills exposed how to slow the offense down, and other teams picked up on it and once they did, Ravens jugger-naught offense wasn’t the same unstoppable force and they got bounced from the playoffs. I need to see they can maintain their style of play before I make them the favorites. Rams were crazy powerful offense, Bears exposed how to defeat that McVay offense and they haven’t been the same since. Until I see the Ravens can adapt and sustain that offense to prove it wasn’t just an early fluke before teams figured out how to slow it down, I can’t label them the favorite over KC. It’s certainly possible they could prove to be the best team, roster is great. Just need to see them bounce back after they got figured out somewhat by SF and Bills before getting bounced in the playoffs. But this is splitting hairs, I still have them as the number 2 team. While that is true.... not every team can do what Bufflao and Tennessee especially did or San Fran for that matter (though their plan was a little different). You are talking about 3 very good defenses. Ingram wearing down was certainly a factor too. Adding a 2nd back was huge for them.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I will bet you money Clowney will be the nfl this year (assuming there’s a season). Not argument there. I was just correlating "interest" and the players Clowney will get in before the other 2 no doubt
Alphadawg7 Posted July 1, 2020 Author Posted July 1, 2020 32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: While that is true.... not every team can do what Bufflao and Tennessee especially did or San Fran for that matter (though their plan was a little different). You are talking about 3 very good defenses. Ingram wearing down was certainly a factor too. Adding a 2nd back was huge for them. Yeah, I get that, definitely not disregarding it. But for me, I am not fully convinced that their offense isn't more "gimmicky" long term than an unstoppable force. I mean, Vick was just as lethal as Lamar, and seemed like it would be something that would be hard to stop and never really amounted to much once the post season gets here. And when the post season gets here, Lamar and the Ravens are going to see all those top defenses like Bills, Titans, and maybe the Pats, and even KC's D was much improved last year even though not in the same convo as those guys. But I also recognize, Ravens roster top to bottom is better than any of those Vick rosters were too, especially defensively. So, I am not knocking them down, I still have them at #2, and a close #2 to KC. But I also have the Bills a very close #3 behind them. And both Ravens and Bills have the same question marks IMO stacked rosters but what is the 3rd year gonna look like for their respective QB's. The questions about the QB's are just different though given Lamar's breakout year last year. Lamar - Can he find a way to beat those tough defenses better suited to stop his style of play in the playoffs. Can he repeat that special year last year? I mean there is a lot to be excited for around Lamar, and I personally love watching him play and thought highly of him coming out of college. But, that means he needs to be able to adapt against those teams who can disrupt that offense, and he has not done it really yet, but he has even more experience under his belt now and an even better roster. So lots to be excited for there, but still, the results on the field need to continue and he needs to break through against those defenses that played them tougher before I can say they are a favorite over KC. Just my 2 cents. Allen - We all know what he needs to prove and clearly can say he has more to prove than Lamar obviously...can he dial in the deep ball, and can he take another big step in accuracy and decision making. He made some great strides last year, so plenty of optimism, but he needs to do that again this year for the Bills to seriously challenge teams like Ravens and Chiefs this year. And with major upgrades at WR, RB, and even the OL, he really is setup for those big steps this year and I honestly am quite confident in his progress moving forward, but that means nothing until he does it on the field. AFC is for sure gonna be tough. You still have teams like Steelers that can be a major problem too if Big Ben finds his groove again after missing most of last season. Now you have Pats even that can no longer be kinda written off, Cam certainly improves their threat and like it or not here at TSW, BB is the GOAT at HC. This is why I said earlier that I think AB would have an easier path with a team like Seattle as I don't see the NFL as dangerous as the AFC is this year potentially. Plus Seattle is one of those teams where a top player like AB (should he keep his head straight and stay on the field) could put them over the top in the NFC.
GunnerBill Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 I have Baltimore #1, KC #2 as my two AFC favs. Then a small gap to #3 Buffalo then another small gap to #4 Pittsburgh, #5 Cleveland and #6 Denver. Don't love anyone in the South. 1
Gambit Posted July 1, 2020 Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I have Baltimore #1, KC #2 as my two AFC favs. Then a small gap to #3 Buffalo then another small gap to #4 Pittsburgh, #5 Cleveland and #6 Denver. Don't love anyone in the South. I'm not sure how anyone can choose any team over KC right now. Lamar hasn't proven he can win when it matters. Sadly, our QB is in that same boat.
GunnerBill Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Gambit said: I'm not sure how anyone can choose any team over KC right now. Lamar hasn't proven he can win when it matters. Sadly, our QB is in that same boat. Because I think Baltimore has top to bottom the best roster in the NFL.
machine gun kelly Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 GB, I’m normally with you, but I still see KC -1, Baltimore -2, us -3, Pittsburgh - 4. People have been guessing Cleveland to be a top team For two years and haven’t done it. I can see Indy winning their division, and Denver and NE possibly making the other two Wildcard teams now that their are 3 this year. 1
machine gun kelly Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 As far as AB, he’s a walking circus. I hope one of our competitors take him and watch the chaos ensue. 1
GunnerBill Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 On 7/1/2020 at 1:52 AM, Gugny said: Two years a row, it worked well enough to get to the playoffs and two years in a row playoff defenses shut it down. Not sustainable. The Ravens' window with Jackson at QB was small. Now it's shut. I know I'm in the minority, but I think in 5 years Jackson is a backup and Allen is a superstar. The offense they ran in 2019 was not the offense they ran when Lamar took over in 2018. Both contained a lot of Jackson running, but they were not the same scheme. I just don't see how their window can be closed. Their roster is absolutely stacked and they are paying Lamar a pittance. The point when they have to pay Lamar is the point their window closes. They didn't lose to Tennessee on offense either. Tenn did a decent job but Baltimore lost on defense because their Dline and linebackers for bullied. They have addressed those weaknesses and then some in FA and the draft.
GunnerBill Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: GB, I’m normally with you, but I still see KC -1, Baltimore -2, us -3, Pittsburgh - 4. People have been guessing Cleveland to be a top team For two years and haven’t done it. I can see Indy winning their division, and Denver and NE possibly making the other two Wildcard teams now that their are 3 this year. I think Indy will probably win the south by default but wouldn't surprise me if Tennessee or even Houston did. I think Indy are being overrated by a lot of people. I have been as big of a Philip Rivers truther as there has been outside San Diego I think but I watched him last year and I think he is done. Yes he was getting hit a lot but he was holding the ball too long, not trusting his eyes and then throwing absolute ducks. I think Cam Newton has a lot more left in the tank than Rivers put it that way. I like Taylor and Pittman a lot too but Indy's issues last year were secondary and Quarterback. I don't believe that they have fixed either. Cleveland were a talented but dreadfully coached team last year and went 7-9. Stefanski being even just "below average" makes that a 9 win team IMO because it is an enormous upgrade from a man who was so far out his depth it wasn't fair or funny. Not guaranteed to make the playoffs because I think if Ben is back to anything like his old self they are the 3rd best team in the division but I think they should be above .500. Put Cleveland in our division and they would rival the Bills to win it.
Doc Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 17 hours ago, Gambit said: I'm not sure how anyone can choose any team over KC right now. Lamar hasn't proven he can win when it matters. Sadly, our QB is in that same boat. Going to KC is like going to the Jordan-era 90's Bulls. But a guy like AB if sane and motivated would help our QB a lot. Now we have Diggs for that.
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