DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, mellaman101 said: Every time I read one of these post, I have a flashback of the time I tasted my pee in the bathtub.... 1
Saxum Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: The Pegulas aren't the only owners in trouble. Many owners borrow against the value of their teams because up till now it was guaranteed to increase in value 5-10% annually. The Houston Rockets owner just borrowed $300MM using the team as collateral. But banks are getting tight sphincters for lending these days. So expect many more stories of teams "getting lean." The Sphincters sounds a good name for a Texas team if bank forecloses on it and tries to rebrand it. And the issue of it impacting Pegulas is fracking overreacted,
TigerJ Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 I don't have any idea what the Pegulas' holdings consist of. I do know that at the current level of oil prices, even conventional drilling costs more than an oil company is likely to make from it. Fracking is much more expensive, so it can't possibly be profitable.
Albanybillsbacker Posted June 22, 2020 Posted June 22, 2020 https://www.forbes.com/profile/terrence-pegula/#536e46323cc7 “Real time net worth: 5.1 Billion” we are doomed! 1
Mango Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 58 minutes ago, TigerJ said: I don't have any idea what the Pegulas' holdings consist of. I do know that at the current level of oil prices, even conventional drilling costs more than an oil company is likely to make from it. Fracking is much more expensive, so it can't possibly be profitable. Doesn’t matter unless he reinvested back into oil and gas. He sold a majority of his holdings in the last 5-10 years. 1
Mike in Horseheads Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 How this survives here is beyond me. 2 hours ago, mellaman101 said: Every time I read one of these post, I have a flashback of the time I tasted my pee in the bathtub.... and? 1
BobbyC81 Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, ExWNYer said: A flashback to my youth. We had a siren on the corner, half a block away, that went off at noon every day. Edited June 23, 2020 by ColeB 1
Utah John Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 I hope it's true that the Pegulas are loaded, and aren't at risk if the fracking industry tanks. But there's some reason they slashed staff. If it isn't money, is it that they just threw up their hands and figured, let's start over? Or, hey, we've been losing after we spent a lot of money, so let's try not spending and see what happens.
machine gun kelly Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 9 hours ago, ColeB said: A flashback to my youth. We had a siren on the corner, half a block away, that went off at noon every day. Cole, is that the one by the volunteer fire dept. in Hamburg on South Park Ave. If so, I grew up just five blocks from there. You brought back a memory. Anyway, funny reference. Seriously though, nothing will happen to the Bills. The Pegulas May have to do more layoffs like many industries, and I don’t see many billionaires who would want to the Sabres. They would never sell a cash cow like the Bills.
simpleman Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said: Didn't Terry already sell most of his fracking land so that money is already liquid or been re-invested in something else? Not really sure how much of his current wealth is depending on ongoing revenues from fracking... "Pegula got into the fracking business in 1983 with a $7,500 loan from friends and family. His sale of the company in 2010 to Royal Dutch Shell netted him about $3 billion as majority owner. He subsequently sold company assets in Ohio and West Virginia in 2014 for $1.75 billion to American Energy Partners" https://www.investigativepost.org/2018/05/08/pegula-back-fracking-and-violating-regulations/#:~:text=Pegula got into the fracking,billion to American Energy Partners. Everyone does not get the reality. He got into the oil and gas exploration business in 1983 to use conventional techniques. He was just a little guy in the business. Then years later In 1999 ( almost 20 years later), fracking technology was perfected by the largest multinationals. It was not his incredible skills as an oil explorer or producer that got him rich. He got rich because he wisely saw the fact that his previously near worthless investments in oil leases had suddenly suddenly became a goldmine. His lemons had unexpectedly became incredibly valuable. The multinationals bought up his leases at astronomical profits for him. He was lucky to have leases in the right areas that fracking could be done in successfully. He was wise to sell the leases to the companies with the knowledge and finances required to frack. He had zero risk and made huge sums of money. He got his money and had little risk or exposure to downturns. He wisely sold at the peak time, and became incredibly wealthy. His risks are now of his sporting franchises losing value from his original investment in them and not having sufficient short term reserves to allow him to weather any financial downturns, and being foerced to sell them at a loss. Not from the downturn in the fracking business. Edited June 23, 2020 by simpleman
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 From the Title alone - why is this on the main board??
First Round Bust Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 fracking is illegal in NY state but natural gas fracked from Penn is sent to NY so kind of hypocritical ? further fracking has caused several (hundred) small to moderate earthquakes in places like OK where they pump water into the displaced earth the pegulas tightening their belts to keep each business cash-flow positive and not have to dip into their savings which would alter lifestyle such as pending new yacht purchase
Doc Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Utah John said: I hope it's true that the Pegulas are loaded, and aren't at risk if the fracking industry tanks. But there's some reason they slashed staff. If it isn't money, is it that they just threw up their hands and figured, let's start over? Or, hey, we've been losing after we spent a lot of money, so let's try not spending and see what happens. Given how bad the Sabres have been for the past 9 seasons, starting over might be a good idea.
Beast Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 22 hours ago, eball said: They're going to sell the Sabres. Just watch. With the Sabres goes the 716 and Harbour Center. Who in the hell will want to buy all that?
SoCal Deek Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, Doc said: Given how bad the Sabres have been for the past 9 seasons, starting over might be a good idea. Wait a minute...the Sabres are still a thing? They stopped being a professional hockey team years ago!
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Jaraxxus said: More importantly, why does anyone not understand that the Pegs are no longer fracking-heavy? They sold the majority of their fracking business in 2014. But lets not let the facts interfere in the discussion. :LOL: :LOL:
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 On 6/22/2020 at 9:09 AM, Southtown Tommy said: During times of pricing volatility within the oil & gas sector, it is much easier for companies with no debt to survive, meaning the Pegulas can layoff their workers, cut capital expenditures, cut SG&A, etc., to conserve cash and retain liquidity. If their oil & gas companies have no debt as been reported, then they will survive a downturn. Think of it like losing your job, but your house is paid for, you have no other debt, and a million dollars in your bank account. You have enough money to buy groceries and pay your utilities until you find another job. Don't talk about me like that!
May Day 10 Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 34 minutes ago, Doc said: Given how bad the Sabres have been for the past 9 seasons, starting over might be a good idea. It wasnt just the scouting staff and a few assistant GMs though. With the part time employees, they were dragging their feet, moreso than their peers. There were mass firings of other Sabres' business executives previous to this. It is a stark departure from the Pegulas for the last NHL lockout where they kept everyone employed and invented a "Sabres University" thing where everyone learned different jobs and functions. It was great PR and in terms of someone with several Billion dollars, it was theoretically peanuts. There was the story of the strange meetings back in January and the "preserve lifestyle" bizarre thing. There also has not been any moves to try to open up their restaurants downtown. They also tried to carve a pound of flesh out of season ticket holders. Much beyond the little % increase they always get away with and blame on qualifying for revenue sharing. My season tickets went up 10% and I was forced to dump them (plus I have grown to hate the organization). I believe they are ignorant to the fact that people will bail en masse. It just 'feels' like there is some sort of cash crunch going on with the Pegulas. I hope not, I really do. It doesnt feel right though, and honestly, they appear to be the dumbest billionaires I have ever seen, they came on the scene and it was like Brewster's Billions since 2010. I fear where they might have had their assets tied into. I flip flop back and forth between it is obviously nothing, and the One Buffalo sky is falling. It is undeniable how much they have destroyed the Sabres' franchise though
bigK14094 Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 14 hours ago, Doc said: I don't see it. Terry loves them. He also sold the Ohio and West Virginia assets to American Energy Partners, LP for $1.75 billion in 2014. That's $6.45B. He had a partner, he had to pay taxes......his number, still large is likely less than half of that. Taxes alone likely cost him 45%, between federal and state taxes.
JohnC Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: It wasnt just the scouting staff and a few assistant GMs though. With the part time employees, they were dragging their feet, moreso than their peers. There were mass firings of other Sabres' business executives previous to this. It is a stark departure from the Pegulas for the last NHL lockout where they kept everyone employed and invented a "Sabres University" thing where everyone learned different jobs and functions. It was great PR and in terms of someone with several Billion dollars, it was theoretically peanuts. There was the story of the strange meetings back in January and the "preserve lifestyle" bizarre thing. There also has not been any moves to try to open up their restaurants downtown. They also tried to carve a pound of flesh out of season ticket holders. Much beyond the little % increase they always get away with and blame on qualifying for revenue sharing. My season tickets went up 10% and I was forced to dump them (plus I have grown to hate the organization). I believe they are ignorant to the fact that people will bail en masse. It just 'feels' like there is some sort of cash crunch going on with the Pegulas. I hope not, I really do. It doesnt feel right though, and honestly, they appear to be the dumbest billionaires I have ever seen, they came on the scene and it was like Brewster's Billions since 2010. I fear where they might have had their assets tied into. I flip flop back and forth between it is obviously nothing, and the One Buffalo sky is falling. It is undeniable how much they have destroyed the Sabres' franchise though What's so surprising about the Pegulas having a cash crunch in a world-wide pandemic health crisis that has crushed a number of business sectors? You don't think that other hockey franchise owners are not or soon will not be dealing with tremendous financial stresses because of this unexpected health calamity? Why do you think that the league is going to great lengths to put on a post shut-down playoff system in the midst of an uncontained epidemic? It's trying to salvage a fraction of the revenue that has been lost because of the public health issue that is affecting all sports, pro and college. What you are doing is isolating what is happening with the Sabres without considering the context for not only the NHL but for all sports and businesses. What was the normal business environment for hockey yesterday doesn't exist now and very likely will not exist for the next year, and maybe even beyond. The expected normal money stream has been dramatically cut off. What other than what they are doing in tightening their belts do you suggest that they should be doing? Magic and wishful thinking don't work in the real world of hard currency.
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