The weakness of Coach McD

[eball]

11 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

I see little evidence to suggest McD gets offense, understands offensive talent, and can scheme one to score consistently.  And I think he's hard-headed enough to think he can win without evolving like Belichick did.  We're going to find out now for sure in 2020. 

 

This is one of the more ridiculous statements you've made on this board.  If anything, McD is the antithesis of "hard-headed" and constantly looks to evolve.  Have you listened to literally nothing the man preaches?

 

As I've stated numerous times...let's see how the Buffalo offense looks now that they have the pieces in place.  You don't think McD said to Beane "I need receivers who will catch the ball and score?"

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

11 minutes ago, eball said:

 

This is one of the more ridiculous statements you've made on this board.  If anything, McD is the antithesis of "hard-headed" and constantly looks to evolve.  Have you listened to literally nothing the man preaches?

 

As I've stated numerous times...let's see how the Buffalo offense looks now that they have the pieces in place.  You don't think McD said to Beane "I need receivers who will catch the ball and score?"

 

I couldn't care less what he preaches, I'm looking at what he does during games. I don't see a coach that has evolved over the last 3 years. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

11 minutes ago, eball said:

 

This is one of the more ridiculous statements you've made on this board.  If anything, McD is the antithesis of "hard-headed" and constantly looks to evolve.  Have you listened to literally nothing the man preaches?

 

As I've stated numerous times...let's see how the Buffalo offense looks now that they have the pieces in place.  You don't think McD said to Beane "I need receivers who will catch the ball and score?"

 

It is pretty incredible that anyone could call McD hard headed.  He fired his first OC, spent tremendous resources rebuilding the entire offense, and gave up in a reasonable amount of time on offensive players that he brought in but did not pan out. I can't even wrap my head around what he would have to be to not be considered "hard headed." 

[eball]

2 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I couldn't care less what he preaches, I'm looking at what he does during games. I don't see a coach that has evolved over the last 3 years. 

 

Then you should try actually looking.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

It's the strategic decision to focus on defense heavily in years 1-3 of this rebuild that needs to be scrutinized.  

 

I'll pile on.

 

Okay, let's scrutinize it. Years 1-3 for Beane are 2018, 2019 and 2020.  But let's forget that and suppose you mean 2017, 2018 and 2019, which is three years for McDermott but only two for Beane. In those years, the Bills drafted their starting quarterback for the future, drafted their starting running back, revamped the entire offensive line, acquired two starting wideouts (Benjamin and Matthews) who didn't work out and two who did (Brown and Beasley), drafted one tight end and signed a free agent tight end.  They also made a change at offensive coordinator when the first choice didn't work out.  It simply is incorrect to imply, as you clearly do, that the Bills did not focus  on the offense.

 

If you give Beane the benefit of his third year, the Bills also acquired a true #1 receiver and a potential starting-caliber running back, as well as additional offensive linemen. 

 

 

[Doc]

People need something to B word about.  The Bills don't make the playoffs for 17 years, finally get a GM and HC to get them there twice in their first 3 years and it's "they better make a deep run or else..." 

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

When McD took the job he had 15+ seasons of NFL experience.  New HC's should not be learning on the job, but building on what they've learned as position coaches and coordinators (if applicable).  There shouldn't be a learning curve.  

Disagree. There should be no learning curve for them to coordinate offense, defense or Special teams....Being a HC is not the same as a coordinator.   YOu would be learning on the job as you had no prior experience of being a HC.

[Mango]

Unsure if it is conservative/hard headed, failure to put people in a position to succeed, or having a bad eye for offensive talent. I think we will know more this season with Diggs. If our offense looks like Minnesota's last year, it will be that we are conservative. If we keep misfiring on blocks, routes, catches, bad passes, it will be because we have done a poor job again at identifying talent. 

 

We have made some moves that have smoked us on that side of the ball. Some for good reason, but others are just flat out bad replacements. 
 

WR: 

I am pleased with Brown and Beasley. I think they are above average as a 1B and slot receiver. But Matthews, Zay Jones, and Benjamin were absolutely huge misses and mistakes they signed to fill holes they created. We still have issues in the passing game. Some is having a no. 1. some is talent (QB, WR, OL). some is scheme.

 

RB: 

Letting go of Shady in hindsight was dumb. He would have been more productive than Gore. Motor is an oddity. He doesn't get a ton of touches, but does see some good production. Coaching is either wrongly not feeding him the ball, or they don't have faith that he can be a bell cow. I am not sure how else to explain it. I think either is a knock on the staff. Hoping Moss can help renew some production from the backfield. Gore and Motor are both from this regime and I would say the backfield as a unit were not terribly strong. 

 

TE:

We have not had a bunch of production. If Knox doesn't fix the dropsies he could be a miss. Kroft was given a large contract (although escapable) and is injured AGAIN! Then there is Lee Smith. All these guys are from this regime

 

OL: 
Upgraded. Slightly above average at the moment. Still some weaknesses, especially on the right side. Hopefully we see a huge leap from Cody Ford. 

 

QB: 

I don't think we need to explain how terrible 2018 was planned. Allen, Exciting guy to watch. Improving, but still below average when compared to his peers. Brought in by this regime. 

[Just Joshin']

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'll pile on.

 

Okay, let's scrutinize it. Years 1-3 for Beane are 2018, 2019 and 2020.  But let's forget that and suppose you mean 2017, 2018 and 2019, which is three years for McDermott but only two for Beane. In those years, the Bills drafted their starting quarterback for the future, drafted their starting running back, revamped the entire offensive line, acquired two starting wideouts (Benjamin and Matthews) who didn't work out and two who did (Brown and Beasley), drafted one tight end and signed a free agent tight end.  They also made a change at offensive coordinator when the first choice didn't work out.  It simply is incorrect to imply, as you clearly do, that the Bills did not focus  on the offense.

 

If you give Beane the benefit of his third year, the Bills also acquired a true #1 receiver and a potential starting-caliber running back, as well as additional offensive linemen. 

 

 

Nice try but I doubt you will change the mind of someone who decided on a narrative without looking at the actual facts.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

27 minutes ago, Mango said:

Unsure if it is conservative/hard headed, failure to put people in a position to succeed, or having a bad eye for offensive talent. I think we will know more this season with Diggs. If our offense looks like Minnesota's last year, it will be that we are conservative. If we keep misfiring on blocks, routes, catches, bad passes, it will be because we have done a poor job again at identifying talent. 

 

We have made some moves that have smoked us on that side of the ball. Some for good reason, but others are just flat out bad replacements. 
 

WR: 

I am pleased with Brown and Beasley. I think they are above average as a 1B and slot receiver. But Matthews, Zay Jones, and Benjamin were absolutely huge misses and mistakes they signed to fill holes they created. We still have issues in the passing game. Some is having a no. 1. some is talent (QB, WR, OL). some is scheme.

 

RB: 

Letting go of Shady in hindsight was dumb. He would have been more productive than Gore. Motor is an oddity. He doesn't get a ton of touches, but does see some good production. Coaching is either wrongly not feeding him the ball, or they don't have faith that he can be a bell cow. I am not sure how else to explain it. I think either is a knock on the staff. Hoping Moss can help renew some production from the backfield. Gore and Motor are both from this regime and I would say the backfield as a unit were not terribly strong. 

 

TE:

We have not had a bunch of production. If Knox doesn't fix the dropsies he could be a miss. Kroft was given a large contract (although escapable) and is injured AGAIN! Then there is Lee Smith. All these guys are from this regime

 

OL: 
Upgraded. Slightly above average at the moment. Still some weaknesses, especially on the right side. Hopefully we see a huge leap from Cody Ford. 

 

QB: 

I don't think we need to explain how terrible 2018 was planned. Allen, Exciting guy to watch. Improving, but still below average when compared to his peers. Brought in by this regime. 

 

It is all about framing. 

 

WR: We went from one a bottom 5 WR corps to a top 5 WR corps, despite the fact that none of those guys are playing on top 10 WR contracts. There is no scenario where this is not considered an overwhelming success. 

 

RB: McCoy was not good after he was traded, and he walked into the year expecting to be the #1. That was not a recipe for success. As far as Singletary's touches, the issue was clearly trust. Right or wrong, the coaches did not want to put too much on the rookie's shoulders. You can tell because Gore always got the handoffs in situations where we could not afford a fumble.  Either way, as it sits, we now have two RBs (on rookie deals), one of whom is a proven producer.  That is ideal management. 

 

TE: Knox was already one of the best rookie TEs in the league. Take out the drops, and he is already one of the better TEs in the league. TE is tough because there is so much bust at the position, and it is rarely worth a high pick. I'm not sure how much more they could have done.  If they bound themselves with bad contracts, it would be one thing, but they haven't.  

 

OL: They have an above average OL, have one guy on a major deal, and are returning all 5 starters.  There only weak point is a guy who just finished their rookie season. Again, that is a best case scenario. 

 

QB: Drafting Mahomes would have been awesome! But I can't take anyone seriously that suggests that they were in the wrong for not drafting Mahomes.  That is some real hindsight is 20/20 stuff. Completely unreasonable.  As far as his "peers." Aside from Jackson, he is the best QB of the group.  

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

It is all about framing. 

 

WR: We went from one a bottom 5 WR corps to a top 5 WR corps, despite the fact that none of those guys are playing on top 10 WR contracts. There is no scenario where this is not considered an overwhelming success. 

 

RB: McCoy was not good after he was traded, and he walked into the year expecting to be the #1. That was not a recipe for success. As far as Singletary's touches, the issue was clearly trust. Right or wrong, the coaches did not want to put too much on the rookie's shoulders. You can tell because Gore always got the handoffs in situations where we could not afford a fumble.  Either way, as it sits, we now have two RBs (on rookie deals), one of whom is a proven producer.  That is ideal management. 

 

TE: Knox was already one of the best rookie TEs in the league. Take out the drops, and he is already one of the better TEs in the league. TE is tough because there is so much bust at the position, and it is rarely worth a high pick. I'm not sure how much more they could have done.  If they bound themselves with bad contracts, it would be one thing, but they haven't.  

 

OL: They have an above average OL, have one guy on a major deal, and are returning all 5 starters.  There only weak point is a guy who just finished their rookie season. Again, that is a best case scenario. 

 

QB: Drafting Mahomes would have been awesome! But I can't take anyone seriously that suggests that they were in the wrong for not drafting Mahomes.  That is some real hindsight is 20/20 stuff. Completely unreasonable.  As far as his "peers." Aside from Jackson, he is the best QB of the group.  

 

I am well aware of that. Hence I framed the progression from 2017 to 2019. 

WR: McBeane assembled the bottom 5 unit. And his replacements were huge whiffs. We don't have a great passing game. On paper it is a great unit at the moment.Hence the we will know more about the staff this season. 

RB: McCoy would have been better than Gore in 2019. It was silly. Again, not using Singletary is a head scratcher. The running game from a backs perspective was not good. Shady has lost a step, but the tires fell off of Gore. 

TE: You can't say "If he didn't lead the team in drops, he would have been great". He had the 4th worst catch percentage among all TE's last year. It isn't a small part of his game you can just ignore and say what if. If he does not fix it, he will be a miss. He may very well. But until he does it, he hasn't.

OL: We aren't really disagreeing on OL. the right side has been iffy for some time now. 

QB:  I didn't mention Mahomes at all. You did. Josh's peers are starting QB's in the NFL. Not just the guys he was drafted with. By the same logic, EJ was great (he wasn't). You totally skipped over the part where I said. "Unsure if it is conservative/hard headed, failure to put people in a position to succeed, or having a bad eye for offensive talent. I think we will know more this season with Diggs. If our offense looks like Minnesota's last year, it will be that we are conservative."

 

The offense is bad until they are good. They haven't played a down yet and their last showing was abysmal. They should be better, but they aren't yet, and we don't know how much they will be if they are. I don't know what to tell you man. The FO and staff have had issues on that side of the ball. My point was that it may not be conservative coaching,  it could also be talent identification. They have at times drafted, given up resources, and made some weird decisions based on who starts work/load etc. for guys who have really not been very good. 

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I'll pile on.

 

Okay, let's scrutinize it. Years 1-3 for Beane are 2018, 2019 and 2020.  But let's forget that and suppose you mean 2017, 2018 and 2019, which is three years for McDermott but only two for Beane. In those years, the Bills drafted their starting quarterback for the future, drafted their starting running back, revamped the entire offensive line, acquired two starting wideouts (Benjamin and Matthews) who didn't work out and two who did (Brown and Beasley), drafted one tight end and signed a free agent tight end.  They also made a change at offensive coordinator when the first choice didn't work out.  It simply is incorrect to imply, as you clearly do, that the Bills did not focus  on the offense.

 

If you give Beane the benefit of his third year, the Bills also acquired a true #1 receiver and a potential starting-caliber running back, as well as additional offensive linemen.

 

We're not discussing Beane.  The HC is the power in the organization and it was his strategic decision to focus on building his defense.  From a cost benefit perspective, investment in the defense means something else will suffer.  And that something else was the offense. 

 

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Disagree. There should be no learning curve for them to coordinate offense, defense or Special teams....Being a HC is not the same as a coordinator.   YOu would be learning on the job as you had no prior experience of being a HC.

 

This is something that most people on the board do not understand.  In any place, be it the private sector, military, sports, etc.  People are promoted not based on what they've done, but their potential to successfully operate at a higher level.  A newly promoted general or admiral in the military has never commanded at that level, but they're expected to succeed.  Same can be said for CEO's and corporate executives.  You build on the experience gained from lower roles and have to be ready in positions of more responsibility.

 

Same principle holds for coordinators moving up to be a HC. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I am well aware of that. Hence I framed the progression from 2017 to 2019. 

WR: McBeane assembled the bottom 5 unit. And his replacements were huge whiffs. We don't have a great passing game. On paper it is a great unit at the moment.Hence the we will know more about the staff this season. 

RB: McCoy would have been better than Gore in 2019. It was silly. Again, not using Singletary is a head scratcher. The running game from a backs perspective was not good. Shady has lost a step, but the tires fell off of Gore. 

TE: You can't say "If he didn't lead the team in drops, he would have been great". He had the 4th worst catch percentage among all TE's last year. It isn't a small part of his game you can just ignore and say what if. If he does not fix it, he will be a miss. He may very well. But until he does it, he hasn't.

OL: We aren't really disagreeing on OL. the right side has been iffy for some time now. 

QB:  I didn't mention Mahomes at all. You did. Josh's peers are starting QB's in the NFL. Not just the guys he was drafted with. By the same logic, EJ was great (he wasn't). You totally skipped over the part where I said. "Unsure if it is conservative/hard headed, failure to put people in a position to succeed, or having a bad eye for offensive talent. I think we will know more this season with Diggs. If our offense looks like Minnesota's last year, it will be that we are conservative."

 

The offense is bad until they are good. They haven't played a down yet and their last showing was abysmal. They should be better, but they aren't yet, and we don't know how much they will be if they are. I don't know what to tell you man. The FO and staff have had issues on that side of the ball. My point was that it may not be conservative coaching,  it could also be talent identification. They have at times drafted, given up resources, and made some weird decisions based on who starts work/load etc. for guys who have really not been very good. 

 

WR: McBeane inherited a unit that would not have been a top 5 unit but required tens of millions per year in contracts.  The unit isn't just good "on paper."  Our top three WRs each finished in the top 32 of one or more categories for WRs.  Show me another unit that can boast the same. 

 

RB: It isn't a head scratcher, at all.  Singletary didn't get more touches because he was a rookie, and the staff clearly wasn't comfortable unloading that much responsibility on a RB.  That could be right or wrong, but the answer is obvious. 

 

TE: The hardest part about drafting a TE is finding someone with the athletic ability and intellectual know how to play the position. He has that.  Drops are a big deal, agreed. But they are not uncommon for rookies and players often grow out of it. 

 

QB:  The Mahomes thing was a mistake; I thought you meant 2017, not 2018.  My bad.  The rest is gibberish. Sure, JA hasn't to compare to other QBs in the league. However, QB has a relatively long learning curve. QBs in their first and second year are held to different standards than vet QBs.  I mean, does that even need to be said? 

 

The offense as a whole was not good enough last year.  But did anyone really think it wouldn't be? It was an entirely rebuilt unit.  The QB, a guy having the reputation of being the biggest project QB to come into the league in years, played his first full year; they had 9 new starters; and they hadn't rookies all over the offense.  The offense performed exactly as well as offenses in that position do.  Does it need to be better next year? Yes. Was last year cause for indictment? Absolutely not. 

[BornAgainBillsFan]

I like this thread, because McD's game management has been a problem since he arrived. He calls time out whenever the play clock gets down to 2 seconds, even if it's 1st or 2nd down (when 5 yards can be made up). And not having time outs at the end of a half or game is the difference between 0 and 3 points, or between 3 or 7. There are times when I suspect McD is using the time outs early, so he has an excuse to run out the clock at the end of the 1st half. But maybe that's a little too "foil hat".

 

Anyway, doesn't anyone remember McD hiring a GMC (game management coach) in March? His name is Marc Lubick:

 

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/sports/managing-the-bills-game-management/

 

So proud of McD for putting his ego aside, and making needed improvements to every aspect of the team.

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by BornAgainBillsFan

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

  The HC is the power in the organization and it was his strategic decision to focus on building his defense.  From a cost benefit perspective, investment in the defense means something else will suffer.  And that something else was the offense. 

 

This is wrong.  Plain and simple. It's wrong that the HC is the power in the organization, but we'll leave that for another day.

 

It's wrong to say that McDermott invested more in the defense than the offense over his first three seasons.  I listed all of it. New quarterback, new running back, new offensive line, new receivers, new tight ends, new offensive coordinator. All the evidence demonstrates that McDermott invested appropriately in the offense. 

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

WR: McBeane inherited a unit that would not have been a top 5 unit but required tens of millions per year in contracts.  The unit isn't just good "on paper."  Our top three WRs each finished in the top 32 of one or more categories for WRs.  Show me another unit that can boast the same. 

 

RB: It isn't a head scratcher, at all.  Singletary didn't get more touches because he was a rookie, and the staff clearly wasn't comfortable unloading that much responsibility on a RB.  That could be right or wrong, but the answer is obvious. 

 

TE: The hardest part about drafting a TE is finding someone with the athletic ability and intellectual know how to play the position. He has that.  Drops are a big deal, agreed. But they are not uncommon for rookies and players often grow out of it. 

 

QB:  The Mahomes thing was a mistake; I thought you meant 2017, not 2018.  My bad.  The rest is gibberish. Sure, JA hasn't to compare to other QBs in the league. However, QB has a relatively long learning curve. QBs in their first and second year are held to different standards than vet QBs.  I mean, does that even need to be said? 

 

The offense as a whole was not good enough last year.  But did anyone really think it wouldn't be? It was an entirely rebuilt unit.  The QB, a guy having the reputation of being the biggest project QB to come into the league in years, played his first full year; they had 9 new starters; and they hadn't rookies all over the offense.  The offense performed exactly as well as offenses in that position do.  Does it need to be better next year? Yes. Was last year cause for indictment? Absolutely not. 

 

I think we are just getting lost in some minutia but saying similar things. The offense still has a lot of "if's" they have also had some whiffs, especially at WR (a unit that is clearly better now, but boy where KB, Zay Jones,  and Matthews bad). Nothing is an indictment yet. This year will paint a much clearer picture. My overall point was meant to be that, if we still struggle offensively this year, likely we will have the answer as to whether it is conservative coaching or talent ID/roster management (which has been an issue at times on the offensive side of the ball). 

[Shaw66]

37 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

The offense still has a lot of "if's" they have also had some whiffs, especially at WR (a unit that is clearly better now, but boy where KB, Zay Jones,  and Matthews bad). Nothing is an indictment yet. This year will paint a much clearer picture. My overall point was meant to be that, if we still struggle offensively this year, likely we will have the answer as to whether it is conservative coaching or talent ID/roster management (which has been an issue at times on the offensive side of the ball). 

I like this. 

 

I think if the Bills struggle offensively in 2020, it will be time to begin asking some serious questions about about one or more of three people: McDermott, Daboll, Allen. We'll know which ones of the three after this season.  

[Sweats]

On 6/21/2020 at 9:59 AM, WIDE LEFT said:

I am a huge fan of Coach McD and believe Bills are lucky to have him. He does almost all the important things right. But there is one area that he needs to improve on, his biggest weakness, game management. Specifically the offensive philosophy when taking a lead in a big game. He goes hyper conservative. The playoff game v Houston for example. Bills with a 16-0 lead, produce a turnover in Houston territory. Great chance to put the game away. What is play call - three straight runs, including a run play on third & 3. Unsuccessful, forced to punt. One great indicator of a too conservative offense is when a team loses a game in which they won the turnover battle. The second New England game is another great example. Bills down early, come roaring back to take a 17-13 lead, and force a 3 & out. Bills get the ball, predictable as the sun rising in the East, run three straight times and punt. You can’t beat elite teams with that mentality. This was another game where Bills win turnover battle, but lose the game.

 

This has been a huge reason why we have been so unsuccessful v Patriots. Going back to Saint Doug, then Rex, and now McD, the same mentality has been employed. Take a lead or tie the game, and the offense goes into a shell. And Belichek knows this, when this situation arises in a game, he loads the front anticipating the run. And the Bills (unsuccessfully) run anyway, giving Brady the ball and the time to win the game. McD needs to change his mentality in order for the Bills to win playoff games. And please, don’t tell me that it’s the OC calling the plays. The head coach has a great amount of input, during the game, as to what TYPE of plays he wants called in various phases of the game. Again, big McD fan here, and he gets almost everything else right, an that’s no small feat.

 

 

 

Bwahahahahahaha..........giving Brady the ball and the time to win the game. The games VS. NE are usually won by the Pats in the 1st quarter.

[LABILLBACKER]

His abilities to motivate this team and maintain a top defense will never be challenged. But his offensive knowledge and game day decisions leave alot to be desired. If the offensive unit (players & coaches) don't improve then it will all be wasted.

[MJS]

I think the offensive approach has been due to having an inexperienced QB and has been mainly up to Daboll.

 

But McDermott is the head coach. He has to take responsibility for both sides of the ball. If Daboll is being too conservative it's his job to instruct him to play it differently or to find a new OC that does it right.

 

I kind of doubt that McDermott dictates the offensive approach. Maybe he does, but I believe he leaves it up to the offensive coaches. But still, he needs to have the right coaches and give the right direction.

 

As far as game management like challenges and managing the clock, I think that's overrated. I think most coaches make periodic mistakes in that regard, even the best ones, and most do a fine job. It's one of those things that make you a genius if it works or an idiot if it fails. I don't think McDermott does a worse job at that than other coaches. In fact, I like his approach to using time outs in key situations to get a read on what the offense or defense is doing o the particular play after they line up and then countering it.

Edited June 22, 2020 by MJS