C.Biscuit97 Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Kaepernick is not a victim. He knew what he was doing and he brought it all on himself. It's true that the NFL didn't know how to handle the whole situation, but they would have been screwed either way. He sacrificed his career to bring attention to a matter we are still dealing with 4 years later. You’re right he’s not a victim. History will remember him much better than that. How many of us would be willing to do what he did to bring attention to something they care about?
FireChans Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 No team will sign Kaepernick because if he doesn’t win the job, there will be headache cries of bias or racism. No NFL team believes that is worth it.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Are you telling us all that Colin Kaepernick is a far more superior QB than Josh Allen is right now, and will continue to be the better of the two in the future? What??? All I posted is that 4 years ago (a long time in nfl years), on an absolute horse ? team, he posted better passing numbers than Allen did this year. Of course you take Allen at this point. But CK wasn’t close to as bad as some of you want him to be. 1
BillsFan17 Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/06/colin-kaepernick-ray-lewis-baltimore-ravens-nessa-diab-nfl So we just gloss over the fact the league was ready to bring him back until his GF made racist remarks?
ExWNYer Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: No team will sign Kaepernick because if he doesn’t win the job, there will be headache cries of bias or racism. No NFL team believes that is worth it. How does this theory apply if a team with an African-American starter signs him as their backup?
FireChans Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, ExWNYer said: How does this theory apply if a team with an African-American starter signs him as their backup? “They are biased against Kaep which is why he didn’t win the job, he clearly outplayed Tyrod Taylor!!” Easy.
Mark Vader Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He sacrificed his career to bring attention to a matter we are still dealing with 4 years later. You’re right he’s not a victim. History will remember him much better than that. How many of us would be willing to do what he did to bring attention to something they care about? The pig socks and him not voting spoke volumes to me. Still to this day I have yet to see Kaepernick do anything to bring about real change to the problems in the country. Has he ever once met with any city, county, or state government officials to discuss any type of reform? Yes, I know he gives a lot to charity and that is a very good thing. That alone, will not fix the problem. Dak Prescott donating a million dollars towards police reform, shows more to me than anything else that Kaepernick has done.
ExWNYer Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: “They are biased against Kaep which is why he didn’t win the job, he clearly outplayed Tyrod Taylor!!” Easy. 1
GregPersons Posted June 16, 2020 Author Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, Mark Vader said: Kaepernick is not a victim. He knew what he was doing and he brought it all on himself. It's true that the NFL didn't know how to handle the whole situation, but they would have been screwed either way. First, let's be clear — there is nowhere you will find Kaepernick describing himself as a victim. That's an imaginary argument. Also, I didn't say Kaepernick was a victim — I don't know why that wouldn't describe his role in what happened with being blacklisted by the NFL, but, the first mention of "victim" is coming from you. As pejorative. He knew what he was doing, yes. He was not acting without thought. It was the opposite. He was acting very thoughtfully and consciously. He was aware of his actions. "He brought it on himself", I disagree with... that is the same as saying the wife who is beaten by a husband "brought it on herself" when she burnt the chicken. You see that, yeah? Instinctually the reaction is to get defensive but just, chill, think about it. What do I get out of fighting with you. Speaking out against injustice is not an invitation to be fired. "Company time" is a garbage argument and isn't something to be taken at face value. Anybody who wants to go to bat for corporations over labor, be my guest, but defend the position with more than "if I took a knee during the national anthem at MY job, I would be fired too" — does your job force you to observe the national anthem? We agree the NFL handled it poorly, and they would've been screwed either way, in the sense that there's no middle ground on it. But the reality obviously is they're not actually "screwed" in any real tangible way at all. It will hurt them potentially in the future, but that's still less likely than it not mattering in any real way. Now... if you want to really understand what Kaepernick was doing, in terms of "he knew what he was doing", like if that is a statement that has any curiosity to it... not just what he's advocating for, or how he's advocating for it.... but everything else behind it.... you should read the book "Revolt of the Black Athlete" by Harry Edwards the sociologist/philosopher! It's all about this stuff but written in the 70s. Just like James Baldwin's letters, the real truth is that these aren't new issues/arguments nor are the forms of dissent new. It's all in a continuum of cause & effect. If you like movies, last year Soderbergh released High Flying Bird on netflix, which is also inspired by that book, great movie, super interesting -- raises the question on players and labor -- why shouldnt all sports be like boxing? What does the NBA, or NFL, PA need owners for, really? Why should they be sharing what the players are earning on their meritocracy? They could all go PPV, crazy expensive prices. There's a lot of ways we keep ourselves down by not imagining better things or simpler solutions and then just insisting on making it so. We have a (trained) instinct to under-value ourselves and humans in general. It's really... perverse, and sad, and interesting if nothing else. Well this got long. Idk about you but hard to stop seeing all of the connections once you start digging through the rat's nest of wires behind the entertainment system... 1
FireChans Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, ExWNYer said: Bro have you see the state of think pieces and Twitter? We can act like those headlines are unreasonable and therefore wouldn’t occur, but then we’d been ignoring reality and we’d both be wrong.
Teddy KGB Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: What??? All I posted is that 4 years ago (a long time in nfl years), on an absolute horse ? team, he posted better passing numbers than Allen did this year. Of course you take Allen at this point. But CK wasn’t close to as bad as some of you want him to be. did the 11-28 thing happen before or after the kneeling ? what a sacrifice ??♂️
Bill from NYC Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, tumaro02 said: Looks to me like the scheming NFL wants Kaepernick to join as a NFL front office adviser so they can give him a forum for his cause. More importantly with a new forum he could stop the players from kneeling for the anthem since he would then be NFL management. Any new battle for disgusted fans who a few years ago left the NFL ticket purchasing, NFL game watching, and NFL merchandise boycotting don't go through the same protest. The NFL pissed off millions of patriotic fans and it cost them millions of dollars. Shrewd move. I can't say for sure if you will turn out to be right wrong but that is one very interesting and well thought theory/prediction. Edited June 16, 2020 by Bill from NYC
ExWNYer Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Bro have you see the state of think pieces and Twitter? We can act like those headlines are unreasonable and therefore wouldn’t occur, but then we’d been ignoring reality and we’d both be wrong. I'm not on Twatter for a reason.
Mark Vader Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: What??? All I posted is that 4 years ago (a long time in nfl years), on an absolute horse ? team, he posted better passing numbers than Allen did this year. Of course you take Allen at this point. But CK wasn’t close to as bad as some of you want him to be. Then why even compare his numbers to Allen in the first place. You could have been more general by comparing Kaepernick's numbers to all QB's in 2016, and that would be a better comparison. Otherwise it comes off as you being another fan who believes that the Bills should never have drafted Josh Allen in the first place. 1
FireChans Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, ExWNYer said: I'm not on Twatter for a reason. The whole NFL and their media is, unfortunately. Just because you ignore it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Mr. WEO Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Stop. You know the point I was making. CK, who isn’t good enough for the NFl according to some, had better passing stats to Allen who went to the playoffs last year. Allen would have sucked in that SF situation as every qb would have it. That team was complete garbage. Kaepernick is a low output QB. That had a significant impact on his team's record. Even in his 49ers team's best year, he put up Tyrod Taylor numbers. As their D got worse, he couldn't lead an Offense to win games.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Mark Vader said: The pig socks and him not voting spoke volumes to me. Still to this day I have yet to see Kaepernick do anything to bring about real change to the problems in the country. Has he ever once met with any city, county, or state government officials to discuss any type of reform? Yes, I know he gives a lot to charity and that is a very good thing. That alone, will not fix the problem. Dak Prescott donating a million dollars towards police reform, shows more to me than anything else that Kaepernick has done. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/sportsperson/2017/12/06/colin-kaepernick-charity-giving-donations and like most people, he’s far from a perfect messenger. I Didn’t agree with the pig socks either. I don’t really think he wanted all this. I think he’s always been a quiet guy and wanted to give attention to this issue. I just never got why it bother people so much. Go to any nfl stadium and you will see thousands of people doing other stuff during the attention. You will see people with confederate flags at some stadiums. and I respect your opinion. It just bothers me that some people cared more about CK than domestic violence players. I missed those protests or threatening not to watch. I said if the Bills signed Vick, I would be done with the Bills. To me, that makes more sense than quitting because of a silent protest for police brutality but to each it’s own. And any fan quits over this really won’t be missed. Like it not, these players have a big platform and they are using that. 1
ExWNYer Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: The whole NFL and their media is, unfortunately. Just because you ignore it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Never said it doesn't exist. And just because I'm not on the cesspool that is Twatter doesn't mean that I ignore what is going on in the world. Your response to my original question is still a stretch, IMO. We'll agree to disagree.
Blank Stare Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s almost like football is the ultimate team game! I agree. Or even coaching for that matter. Say what you will about Harbaugh at Michigan, but the guy was a damn good NFL coach. Worst season record was his last at 8-8. Coaching matters folks. Kaepernick was still developing when Harbaugh left. Who knows what his trajectory would’ve been if Harbs stuck around. Jim Tomsula and Chip Kelly were awful. 1 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 16, 2020 Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: Then why even compare his numbers to Allen in the first place. You could have been more general by comparing Kaepernick's numbers to all QB's in 2016, and that would be a better comparison. Otherwise it comes off as you being another fan who believes that the Bills should never have drafted Josh Allen in the first place. Because some Bills fans here are dying how garbage he is and how he doesn’t belong in the NFL. Well he had better numbers than a guy a lot of us are high on so maybe you might need to rethink that false narrative. it really has nothing to do with Allen but rather to show how flawed some people are in evaluating CK. Unless you think they are both garbage and then I got nothing haha. 1
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