dollars 2 donuts Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The problem is, recent studies have shown no such thing. Even WHO had to walk that back when they had a crowd of epidemiologists saying "excuse me, kindly direct me to the data that demonstrate this point" and they had no such thing. Operationally, "asymptomatic" just means "does not have symptoms at this time". "Asymptomatic" people who were symptomatic 2 days or 6 days later have been shown to be shedding virus all over the environment and to have viral titer as high or higher than other symptomatic people. There is no study demonstrating these people are not contagious. Therefore the rest of what you say, based upon these assumptions, falls apart. Hap, I am leaving my comments in below just for full disclosure. However, the comments made here, in bold afterwards, are based upon other things you’ve written, and posts and other threads by our members on this board. Unfortunately, the “food for thought” you and others have provided make me less confident in my position on playing. we need to know more and I am not out by any stretch. But 90% confidence is now down to...50. just wanted to let you know. thank you, Hap. I get your point as it was made. however, it doesn’t have to rely upon my assumptions with respect to the rest of what I said, which I don’t think falls apart. Even in what you quoted me on I heavily weighted my original statement, and at the start. So...just plain removing those assumptions in their entirety, we still: monitor and take precautions. Likely even greater precautions as given the concerns over inhalation/exhalation, possible additions face mask coverings, but not as to inhibit respiration. This is just a suggestion. as far as the rest of what I said, I stand by it, minus even the earlier comments. “With those this still becomes people being responsible for taking proper care and proper measures. Meaning, if a player gets sick I think there is a greater likelihood it happens in their everyday life as opposed to players who will almost daily be under scrutiny regarding their health. So if it happens in their everyday life its not much different than anything else that might happen. It's morning.. Time for practice. Do you have a fever? Yes. Good-bye. that stinks, but that's it. You can come back when you've been cleared. I just don't see one Buffalo Bill having it, which then turns into 60% of the team having it. We know better now and we are more cautious now. I don't see the benefit, on any angle, to just wrap things up for the season because of what could be and what we might not like, as opposed to taking precautions and letting the teams that are able to hit the field, hit the field. ...if we want to put an asterisks by it at the end of the season, we can...please, we have done that before. I just don't think that at this stage a whole season or people's way of life should be sacrificed because of the scales being tipped.“ Edited June 17, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts 1
GG Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 Interesting how factual posts that challenge the official narrative go poof. I'm out of this thread
TigerJ Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 6 hours ago, nucci said: why does everyone seem to think you are immune if you get it once? This has not been proven and there are cases of people getting it more than once It is generally accepted now that having had COVID-19 does give you immunity. The evidence to the contrary seems to fall into categories. 1 - People have had false positive tests after recovering from COVID-19. The medical community generally agrees the test is reacting to inactive pieces of virus RNA floating around the body. 2 - People have had relapses without ever truly recovering. The medical community is suggesting that around 40% of CIVID-19 victims have the disease far longer than than the 2 weeks first thought to be the duration. The symptoms have linger for 90 days and counting for some. Whether they are still contagious or not is in question. 1
TigerJ Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, GG said: It would be helpful if people used the more appropriate description of presymptomatic vs asymptomatic. To me there's a huge difference. In any event, I'm not aware of any Typhoid Mary cases that have been uncovered. It's tough to discern between presymptomatic and asymptomatic in the present. If someone has antibodies to COVID-19 and never had symptoms, you can say pretty conclusively he had an asymptomatic case. Otherwise if someone tests positive without symptoms, about the best you can say is they don't have symptoms yet. You have to assume they are shedding virus and are contagious in any case.
FireChans Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, GG said: Interesting how factual posts that challenge the official narrative go poof. I'm out of this thread Hey man, when the government can barely put out an official narrative, who are we to dispute what they cobble together? Just now, ScottLaw said: Like? I think you missed the go poof part
Gugny Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I recall about a week ago seeing a news outlet with new social distancing guidelines.... “social gatherings of up to 12 people, protests of up to 100.” ***** joke. I don’t understand how anyone can really believe what the media tells them. The media is telling us what the governments are telling them. Why blame the media??
BringBackFergy Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Trogdor said: Telling people that an employee tested positive and naming that employee aren't the same thing. People shouldn't disclose medical information about other people. In a perfect world, yes - absolutely right. But when you are trying to sell a house, appear on a motion, meet with a commercial lender or spot someone doing bench press, and you’re told “uh, no you can’t come in today because we have a positive Covid case” that kinda narrows it down doesn’t it? The public has a right to know what they are coming in contact with (whether it’s a sports figure or an investment banker). Zeke needs to understand this. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Privacy is trumped by fear of pandemic (death) and liability (duty to disclose). When that subsides, our health privacy will be restored.
FireChans Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Gugny said: The media is telling us what the governments are telling them. Why blame the media?? The media is supposed to keep the government in check when they act like idiots. At least, that’s what I thought they were supposed to do.
Nelius Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) This thread is crazy. It's a "novel" coronavirus for a reason, as you can tell by the breadth of responses here. There's still a tremendous amount of questions which is why there will be no normal any time soon. At best I'm hoping for some kind of truncated season in a bubble, and I'm convinced that there's no way any of us will be attending a major sporting event live for at least the rest of 2020. On 6/15/2020 at 10:30 AM, Chandler#81 said: The vast majority of people who’ve contracted the disease are not only fine within a month, they’re then immune. Genuinely curious if there's any truth to the immunity part? I've heard otherwise but have been taking a bit of a media break lately so may have missed an update. Awesome if true, but if not, then this is exactly the kind of serious confusion that I'm talking about. Edited June 17, 2020 by Nelius 2
Mij yllek Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 I seem to remember Bruce Smith coming down with the flu right before a crucial playoff game in Pittsburgh. I don't remember the entire league being beside themselves with panic.
Logic Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 11 hours ago, Nelius said: This thread is crazy. It's a "novel" coronavirus for a reason, as you can tell by the breadth of responses here. There's still a tremendous amount of questions which is why there will be no normal any time soon. At best I'm hoping for some kind of truncated season in a bubble, and I'm convinced that there's no way any of us will be attending a major sporting event live for at least the rest of 2020. Genuinely curious if there's any truth to the immunity part? I've heard otherwise but have been taking a bit of a media break lately so may have missed an update. Awesome if true, but if not, then this is exactly the kind of serious confusion that I'm talking about. According to the CDC website, it is not yet known whether infection with COVID confers any kind of future immunity. [Edit: I tried to address this and answer some questions here if anyone interested. Tnks -Hap] 1
Nelius Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mij yllek said: I seem to remember Bruce Smith coming down with the flu right before a crucial playoff game in Pittsburgh. I don't remember the entire league being beside themselves with panic. Yeah and he was so sick that he couldn't play and the Bills lost? So quite serious. Now let's upgrade that and make it far more infectious.
Gugny Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, FireChans said: The media is supposed to keep the government in check when they act like idiots. At least, that’s what I thought they were supposed to do. They do. Then don says “fake news,” and his cult runs with it.
FireChans Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, Gugny said: They do. Then don says “fake news,” and his cult runs with it. Except for the nonsensical guidelines, sure.
Reneth Gilne Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 On 6/15/2020 at 9:21 AM, Cal said: Per NFL.com Need to call off the 2020 season imo. You can't socially distance in a team sport like football. Its inevitable that players will continue to test positive. In other news a car got in a car accident...no one was hurt....need to cancel driving nationwide. Also the regular flu caused someone to sneeze, need to cancel all outdoor activities including breathing. Also someone posted something assinine....need to close the forum for the year. Just totally rediculous. Thanks 1 1
cd1 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 On 6/15/2020 at 12:30 PM, Chandler#81 said: Pardon my French, but to Hell with your opinion. Simply put, Players ARE going to get the virus. Most likely some of us too. They’re young & in great physical condition while being afforded the very best medical capabilities. The vast majority of people who’ve contracted the disease are not only fine within a month, they’re then immune. ”PLAY BALL!”! The players may be young and healthy, but what about coaches and support staff? Who wants to take bets on Andy Reid's chances? How about Romeo Crennel? It is not just about survival either. Survivors are reporting long lasting issues. What if some young and healthy players recover but never have the endurance required to play pro football anymore. This is not chicken pox. It just isn't that simple.
Chandler#81 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, cd1 said: The players may be young and healthy, but what about coaches and support staff? Who wants to take bets on Andy Reid's chances? How about Romeo Crennel? It is not just about survival either. Survivors are reporting long lasting issues. What if some young and healthy players recover but never have the endurance required to play pro football anymore. This is not chicken pox. It just isn't that simple. You share the doomsday theory many others do. There certainly could be truth in your assessment (it’s been 90 some odd years since the last one). Because the NFL is currently going full steam ahead for a full 2000 campaign, that’s the only truth we know today. Until/unless something changes, onward we go with the best laid plans & precautions.
cd1 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: You share the doomsday theory many others do. There certainly could be truth in your assessment (it’s been 90 some odd years since the last one). Because the NFL is currently going full steam ahead for a full 2000 campaign, that’s the only truth we know today. Until/unless something changes, onward we go with the best laid plans & precautions. If reality equals doomsday it is a very sad world we live in today.
BillsFan17 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, cd1 said: The players may be young and healthy, but what about coaches and support staff? Who wants to take bets on Andy Reid's chances? How about Romeo Crennel? It is not just about survival either. Survivors are reporting long lasting issues. What if some young and healthy players recover but never have the endurance required to play pro football anymore. This is not chicken pox. It just isn't that simple. It is that simple, the mortality rate is low and we are seeing mass gatherings for the past week or so plus.
plenzmd1 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 3 hours ago, cd1 said: The players may be young and healthy, but what about coaches and support staff? Who wants to take bets on Andy Reid's chances? How about Romeo Crennel? It is not just about survival either. Survivors are reporting long lasting issues. What if some young and healthy players recover but never have the endurance required to play pro football anymore. This is not chicken pox. It just isn't that simple. So, should the season be cancelled because a few coaches are overweight and older? By that logic, 2500 players, i am guessing 5X in coaching in direct administrative roles etc so , plus all the TV personnel, plus all the folks in advertising, plus all the countless 1000s other people affected by a shutdown ...they should all lose their livelihood instead of the high risk people staying home. The good of the 100's is more important than the good of millions?
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