Massacre in Tulsa, OK

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I suppose this is the new definition of silence, like we redefined defund earlier? 

 

Actually, I believe it is a new definition of ignoring, which now includes legitimate disagreement

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Niagara Bill]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Actually, we are dealing with psychological pain, NB, whatever you choose to wrap it up in. As for your analogy of your angry wife, you can acknowledge her anger or pain, you can aknowledge the legitimacy of what she feels, you can listen to her as she tells you what she is feeling; however, it doesn't necessarily mean the reason(s) she is angry or in pain are entirely legitimate. If you both want the relationship to work, then, at some point, that has to be discussed honestly.

 

As to your bolded: (1) I agree that we must listen. However, one does not have to have experience in in a particular area, or completely agree after listening for his/her thoughts on solutions to be useful. (2) Would you also say unless you are a law enforcement officer in America today, your thoughts on solutions are useless until you first listen to them?

Yes in the world today listening is important. To help resolving you must learn the real problem...it may not be violence, or only violence... anti poverty, education, etc maybe solutions but not the real problem. 

I do not understand enough personally. If we did understand why for all these years have we not been able to unite our family. 

Maybe we do not want to? That is another line of discussion. Like I said, first decision, do you want the relationship.

It took Goodell a long thoughtful time to open his mind. He saw problem, control, solution. Now he sees he may not have control, so he has learned.

Thank goodness. Before anyone says anything I support the respectful for flags and anthems as well, BUT, we are approaching a key time in our lives, let us take the opportunity to really make a difference. 

 

[Niagara Bill]

2 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

This definition of listening implies agreement with what's being said. So if "agreeing" is what you mean, then say so. I've listened to the arguments, and found them all pretty much lacking.

 

It does not mean acceptance, it means I want to hear what you have to say. That does not mean everything they have to say they believe. Their are blacks protecting cops, their are black business owners who are trying to stop violence, there are people protesting peacefully.

Until you stop defending  yourself (not talking physically), they believe you are not listening. " Yah buts " stop conversation and growth.

[billsfan1959]

11 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

It does not mean acceptance, it means I want to hear what you have to say. That does not mean everything they have to say they believe. Their are blacks protecting cops, their are black business owners who are trying to stop violence, there are people protesting peacefully.

Until you stop defending  yourself (not talking physically), they believe you are not listening. " Yah buts " stop conversation and growth.

 

It goes both ways, NB. People should also not begin the conversation by placing others in a position where they feel they have to defend themselves. 

[Niagara Bill]

32 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

I think that's an awfully rosy outlook on the current situation.

If one disagrees with the core premise of black lives matter - that is to say that:

 

1) systemic racism exists

2) white people are the beneficiaries of said systemic racism

3) therefore every white person must atone for this original sin of whiteness

 

You're labeled as irredeemable, racist and worthy of "cancellation."

 

Why on earth would any rational white person agree to any of this unless out of fear? I'm sorry. I refuse to have good-faith discussions with anyone who approaches the conversation with those premises.

 

If your belief is #3 on your list then you do not want to move to a new level of trust and relationships.

If you believe because all blacks believe in attonement and penalty then you are not understanding. Stop the Yah Buts. 

I would not generally accept that Christopher Columbus had to be stricken from the history books as some white and black suggest. The Pyramids were built by slaves...that is history. If something they do then that is debated able. But one does not have to undue the past to fix the future. 

I would not suggest that Al Sharpton had to be demonized, even though he maybe should be. 

Some people cannot be satisfied, you just have to get the majority moving in the same direction, details will be dealt with as your journey goes. 

Buying your second home starts with the agreement to move from the first. You do not need to burn it down. 

48 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It goes both ways, NB. People should also not begin the conversation by placing others in a position where they feel they have to defend themselves. 

You are right, but both sides have people that take extreme positions. Getting past that takes time to sort through. 

[billsfan1959]

9 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Some people cannot be satisfied, you just have to get the majority moving in the same direction, details will be dealt with as your journey goes. 

 

You are right, but both sides have people that take extreme positions. Getting past that takes time to sort through. 

 

I won't disagree. Unfortunately, the extreme position is the main voice right now and drowning out all of the reasonable voices. 

 

No honest dialogue will begin until that ends.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Tiberius]

On 6/14/2020 at 7:11 AM, GregPersons said:

 

I've become much clearer on the complacency White Americans have toward the violence of their neighbors and they need their cages rattled. 

 

I've realized that racists are around me more than I wanted to believe before. I had assumed most people were generally moral, good, "Golden Rule" and Jesus' values type of people, more or less. I realized that's all pretty bunk. A lot of "good people" are just cowards who can't admit their real feelings. 

I knew so many in the Air Force but just sort of laughed it off mostly. What could I do? I play hockey and have noticed it there at times, also. Once, a dude I was playing defense with came to the bench to sit and then just started the boilerplate racist crap, how he thought blacks had ruined neighborhoods and how he thought all black people were stupid and bad, all this and I just sat there, like is this guy crazy? I never saw him again after that.  A few guys at work I found out--through listening to them!--that they were haters, too. I went over to help this guy move to a new house, his brother, who I did not know, showed up and was hanging with us and he just starts on this nazi like racists screech and no one said anything. I left.

[Niagara Bill]

5 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Read the post again.

 

Those are the core tenets of Black Lives Matter.

 

It may shock you, but I'm against police brutality. I think corrupt cops should be prosecuted. I think police unions are a bad idea, because they protect bad cops.

 

I have no problems with any of those premises.

 

You assume BLM  speaks for the black community. They are loud, so we're the Black Panthers, so is Al Quada but they do not speak for all Muslims. The journey if you really want to .I've with each other will seek out those who can speak. Trump..never, Pelosi  never, Sharpton, never, 

Maybe Oprah, Tyler Perry etc.

Maybe Joe Scarbough, maybe,Bill Gates

[Niagara Bill]

8 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

I see a whole lot of #blacklivesmatter out there among both white AND black people. So while you may attempt to claim they don't carry the standard for the black community, I'm going to have to disagree. As far as Oprah, during her two-night TV extravaganza on race (hosted by herself and with an all-black panel) had one of the key talking points of her little display was set to be "What are our demands?"

 

Demands.

 

Tell me something. When someone comes at you with a list of demands, what's the appropriate reaction?

 

 

 

 

Noted...no agreement, no disagreement, ask questions, ask reasoning, ...part of discussions but like all negotiations at some point you come to the wall on both sides. Finding what the wall is made of is the art of the possible. But too soon to not listen. To soon for quid pro quo

[Koko78]

30 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

Tell me something. When someone comes at you with a list of demands, what's the appropriate reaction?

 

Before or after I'm done laughing in their faces?

[Tiberius]

The lynch mobs that hanged, shot or burned African-Americans alive during the early 20th century sometimes varied the means of slaughter by roping victims to cars and dragging them to death. The killers who re-enacted this barbaric ritual in Tulsa, Okla., on June 1, 1921, committed one of the defining atrocities of the Tulsa Race Massacre, the bloody conflagration during which white vigilantes murdered at will while looting and burning one of the most affluent black communities in the United States.

The helpless old black man who was shredded alive behind a fast-moving car would have been well known in Tulsa’s white downtown, where he supported himself by selling pencils and singing for coins. He was blind, had suffered amputations of both legs and wore baseball catcher’s mitts to protect his hands from the pavement as he scooted along on a wheeled wooden platform.

Among the white bystanders who witnessed the pencil seller’s grisly end was a teenager named E.W. Maxey, who was undersheriff of Tulsa County by the time he recounted the carnage to the local historian Ruth Sigler Avery 50 years later. Undersheriff Maxey admitted to knowing the thugs who tied the “good old colored man” to a convertible and sped off along Main Street. Describing the scene to Ms. Avery in 1971, he recalled that the victim “was hollering. His head was being bashed in, bouncing on the steel rails and bricks” that lined the street.

 

Not far away, in the prosperous black district of Greenwood, white vigilantes systematically torched nearly 40 square blocks. Gone in the blink of an eye were more than 1,000 homes, a dozen churches, five hotels, 31 restaurants, four drugstores and eight doctors’ offices, as well as a public library and a hospital. As many as 9,000 black Tulsans were left homeless. Photographs from the period depict shellshocked survivors being marched at gunpoint to temporary concentration camps.

From Day 1, many Tulsans believed that the authorities had sought to suppress the true horror of the episode by setting the death toll at a few dozen. Others have estimated that as many as 300 may have died. The number of fatalities seems destined to remain a mystery. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/opinion/tulsa-race-riot-massacre-graves.html

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 6/15/2020 at 12:01 PM, Jaraxxus said:

 

I see a whole lot of #blacklivesmatter out there among both white AND black people. So while you may attempt to claim they don't carry the standard for the black community, I'm going to have to disagree. As far as Oprah, during her two-night TV extravaganza on race (hosted by herself and with an all-black panel) had one of the key talking points of her little display set to be "What are our demands?"

 

Demands.

 

Tell me something. When someone comes at you with a list of demands, what's the appropriate reaction?

 

 

 

 

 

...the whole scope has eclipsed my limited comprehension as it fades after my 67 years.....I simply treat people regardless of race, creed, color origin or orientation in the manner that I hope to be treated.....why is THE focus BLM and why does "all lives matter" get shut down in a nanosecond?....how does ethnic racism, in existence worldwide for THOUSANDS of years and STILL going strong get buried?...no political capital?.....hypocritical?......guess I missed the memo...........

[MILFHUNTER#518]

On 6/14/2020 at 3:30 AM, GregPersons said:

Most White Americans don't know anything about this event in 1921, or found out about it from an HBO show last year.

 

Learning more about your country's history will help you to better understand the events of today. @Chef Jim this may be of interest to you in particular. 

 

Please note the "News Blackout" portion especially.

 

https://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties/tulsa-race-massacre

 

 

The news article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre#/media/File:Nab_Negro_for_Attacking_Girl_in_an_Elevator.png

You know what, I know you are a paid sock puppet in a cubicle in some undisclosed location trying to influence message boards that lean right, but I have to admit that was an interesting read. I am just fascinated with history, so you hit my blindside.

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

You know what, I know you are a paid sock puppet in a cubicle in some undisclosed location trying to influence message boards that lean right, but I have to admit that was an interesting read. I am just fascinated with history, so you hit my blindside.

Lol, you are accusing someone of being a paid poster but thanking them for posting the truth. Nice 

[B-Man]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

 

The article was informative and sad. 
 

The fact that Tibsy went back a week to grab it is hilarious and sad both

 

The “rally failed” lie must be dying off

[MILFHUNTER#518]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Lol, you are accusing someone of being a paid poster but thanking them for posting the truth. Nice 

I am an honest person, and honest people give credit where credit is due.

[Reality Check]

 

[Tiberius]

Biden to speak there. 

 

I guess it was anger Trump supporters if this were taught about in schools

[LeviF]

They still looking for the mass graves or...?

[716er]

On 6/14/2020 at 7:30 AM, Wacka said:

WGAF . Crawl under a rock and die.

 

Holy crap - awful

 

If there's a thread that shows the racism of Bills fans here at TwoBillsDrive, this is the one.

 

Disgusting

Edited June 1, 2021 by 716er