K-9 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Putin said: How many people here can peacefully protest at work ? No not during lunch break but during actual work time that you are getting paid for , can a cashier at a grocery get on his knee for 5 minutes and peacefully protest while there’s 20 people waiting line ? Or maybe I can call my boss and tell him I had to shut down the rig ( oil production) because my guys wanted to peacefully protest? Most of us have two options either follow the company policy OR find another job GO BILLS !!! I think “actual work time” for football players spans from the open kickoff to the final gun. I suppose you can include pregame warmups to be “actual work” as well. If players have permission from their teams to kneel if they want to, how are they shirking their work responsibilities, anyway? The 49ers, for instance gave CK, Reid, and others express permission to kneel in 2016. 1 1
Mickey Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Putin said: How many people here can peacefully protest at work ? No not during lunch break but during actual work time that you are getting paid for , can a cashier at a grocery get on his knee for 5 minutes and peacefully protest while there’s 20 people waiting line ? Or maybe I can call my boss and tell him I had to shut down the rig ( oil production) because my guys wanted to peacefully protest? Most of us have two options either follow the company policy OR find another job GO BILLS !!! News Flash: NFL players are not the equivalent of an hourly stiff at Jiffy Lube. They have options that you and I don't. News Flash: the league, "the company" in your analogy has now said that its policy against kneeling was wrong so if players kneel this year it is with the blessing of their "boss". Update your analogy to "how may of us can peacefully protest at work if our boss gives us the okay?" Answer: everyone. 4 1
K-9 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, dickleyjones said: Like all roots of evolution it is about survival. Those who did not fully trust their circle died young. Now that we have evolved beyond that we humans struggle with the forces of blind loyalty vs considering the opposite viewpoint. And really, you only have one brain you can only ever see things from your viewpoint. you have to make an effort to get your brain to see things from someone else's point of view. an effort many don't have the time or willpower to make. and i agree with @mead107 it cuts all ways. Yeah, I suspect it’s a vestigial element of our psyches.
K-9 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, mannc said: Anyone who says they’re going to kneel now, after doing and saying nothing for three years to support Kaepernick, should be hooted off the stage. I gotta strongly disagree here. They should get credit for being able to evolve in their views. Few movements are adopted by the masses initially; all of them have depended on changed points of view to succeed. 5 1
H2o Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 Do we have to have a new thread about every single person who says they are going to kneel, then rehash the exact same arguments over and over and over again? It's growing quite tiresome. Why not just have one "kneeling" subforum where the people who love to get into pissing matches can have at it so we can stick to the actual game on here? 3 1
Rico Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 If it makes the team stronger and they win more games, sure.
K-9 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, H2o said: Do we have to have a new thread about every single person who says they are going to kneel, then rehash the exact same arguments over and over and over again? It's growing quite tiresome. Why not just have one "kneeling" subforum where the people who love to get into pissing matches can have at it so we can stick to the actual game on here? I admire the optimism!
Mark Vader Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, Gugny said: I'd really love to see McDermott keep it out of the media. Whether a player or coach chooses to kneel or stand - that is their choice. Not knowing them, I won't judge them. I will, however, respect their right to choose. In the future, I'd like to see them keep the anthem out of the pregame ceremonies. It's relatively new. It is for show, anyway. Just get rid of it. Play it while the players are still in the locker room, or don't play it at all. It's a football game. I like the anthem being played pre-game. How about the television networks just not show it? The entire television audience doesn't have to see the anthem or any players protesting.
Don Otreply Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 It would appear JJ Watt and others have a mature understanding of what constitutional rights mean, and that protesting injustice and blatant racism during the national anthem is what Americans call standing up for the true ideals of America. Those that would try to twist doing so into an affront to our brave and honored service members current and former are perpetuating a known falsehood and acting in an UN AMERICAN way, and should give considered thought as to why they would purposefully continue to push this falsehood, that can only further divided our country. As a former United States Marine I find this abhorrent self serving behavior reprehensible. Nations unfriendly to our Democratic Republic use this thinking to drive a wedge into the very social fabric of our Great and honorable Nation, it must stop. Semper FI America!!! 3 3
Heavy Kevi Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 Hard for me to pick from those two. Too many things these days are presented as binary options. I support the movement for racial equality I do not consider America and the American Government/Police as the same thing so I feel it's still a bit of a misappropriation to do it during the anthem. Not really that it's offensive, but I personally think it steps on their own message by alienating many folks who may otherwise sympathize with the cause. My only real issue with it is that I don't let my employees protest or make political stands while at work, that's a dangerous game. As a matter of fact that's the rule at my bar- everyone knows "no religion or politics". But if the NFL (their employer) has no problem with it, who am I to register an opinion? But I'm not particularly offended by it, either. How about a choice for "tolerance", let them to do whatever they feel is right. I do hope this movement yields some well-overdue reform in the way we deal with race relations, and I believe the spirit of America will drive us forward and we will come out a better society for it. My final thoughts are that the amount of people who will stop following the NFL because of this is miniscule. Even the staunchest conservatives (if they are NFL fans) will trash this publicly but will still watch the games. And this year nobody can point to anything and say it's kneelings' fault because covid and our suspect politicians have already knee-capped this year. Seems like the time is right. 1
BillsFan17 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, Mickey said: News Flash: NFL players are not the equivalent of an hourly stiff at Jiffy Lube. They have options that you and I don't. News Flash: the league, "the company" in your analogy has now said that its policy against kneeling was wrong so if players kneel this year it is with the blessing of their "boss". Update your analogy to "how may of us can peacefully protest at work if our boss gives us the okay?" Answer: everyone. So they have more privileges than the common worker?
Dukestreetking Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 Spent 10+ yrs in Iraq/Afghanistan doing yada, yada, yada. Painful memories of losing friends. Am I heartbroken when someone kneels for the anthem (and flag)? Yes. Does that person have the right to do it? Also yes. So, I'm left w seeking some middle ground, perhaps along the lines of Gugny's suggestion: just don't play the anthem anymore. 1
Bobby Hooks Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 At this point I think it would save time and effort to post about people that WONT kneel. I think you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone going against that grain next season.
Gugny Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: I like the anthem being played pre-game. How about the television networks just not show it? The entire television audience doesn't have to see the anthem or any players protesting. Yeah, I think it was always played pre-game, but not when players were on the field and definitely not televised. I'm all for it being played, though.
Putin Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Mickey said: News Flash: NFL players are not the equivalent of an hourly stiff at Jiffy Lube. They have options that you and I don't. News Flash: the league, "the company" in your analogy has now said that its policy against kneeling was wrong so if players kneel this year it is with the blessing of their "boss". Update your analogy to "how may of us can peacefully protest at work if our boss gives us the okay?" Answer: everyone. How many of us have the ok ?? And yes if Boss gives the ok then the answer is obviously yes , but if that ok will divide the company then there will be a discussion and that’s where we are at the moment Edited June 14, 2020 by Putin
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 O'Brien will be on both knees by week 8 begging to keep his job. 4
Heavy Kevi Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: It would appear JJ Watt and others have a mature understanding of what constitutional rights mean, and that protesting injustice and blatant racism during the national anthem is what Americans call standing up for the true ideals of America. Those that would try to twist doing so into an affront to our brave and honored service members current and former are perpetuating a known falsehood and acting in an UN AMERICAN way, and should give considered thought as to why they would purposefully continue to push this falsehood, that can only further divided our country. As a former United States Marine I find this abhorrent self serving behavior reprehensible. Nations unfriendly to our Democratic Republic use this thinking to drive a wedge into the very social fabric of our Great and honorable Nation, it must stop. Semper FI America!!! 100% agree with the sentiment of your post, but this is not a constitutional matter, and I think it just gets in the way to argue that. These players are on the clock, and getting paid for their time (very handsomely). Obviously if the NFL is cool with it then it's a non-issue, but the 1st amendment doesn't really play here. I mean, sure they "have the right" to do it, but the NFL "has the right" to sanction, penalize, or fire them for it. Obviously they won't do that though. It was easy when it was just kaep, now it's half the league or more. So now, even though this isn't a constitutional matter, I think it's more closely likened to a strike. The league can't really live without all the star players, so they have to deal with it. Thank you for your service! 1
oldmanfan Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: So they have more privileges than the common worker? Their employer is saying they can protest. Why do you refuse to see that? 1
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) support Edited June 14, 2020 by RalphWilson'sNewWar Spelling 1
oldmanfan Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Putin said: How many of us have the ok ?? It does not matter. Get it through your head: the league is saying they are OK with it. You want to stop supporting them, fine. But quit making the false comparison between your employer and the NFL. 3
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