MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 12 hours ago, oldmanfan said: You claim that only one side has to be tolerant of the other. You claim liberals have stereotyped actions. All you are is the flip side of the same coin. Gundy as a coach has a different responsibility. If you don’t get that you’re clueless. Let’s say you’re in a position of authority with several young women in your office, and you wear T shirts with demeaning slogans against women. Is it your position they should just get over it? That would be different, he was at the workplace in this instance. That would be sexual harassment, or creating a hostile work environment. I would be against that as well.
Dopey Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) On 6/14/2020 at 8:20 AM, BigBillsFan said: Well BRAVO, only players are stupid enough to alienate their revenue source. As they commit financial suicide and then strike when the salary cap can't be raised let's see them kneel more. The biggest reason why owners around the league stopped this is because the stadiums were rapidly emptying and ratings went down. As an employee you cannot dictate the terms of employment except for immoral or unethical clauses. If the Bills kneel as a sign of protest I won't be watching this year. As Martin Luther King astute observed that peaceful protesting "does not seek to defeat or humiliate the opponent, but to win his friendship and understanding." To your last paragraph, "defeat or humiliate the opponent", the fact that you see kneeling this way says enough to me. I hope the Bills kneel. You will not be missed. Can I buy your tickets from you. I'll kneel in the stands with them. Edited June 17, 2020 by Dopey 1
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 9 hours ago, JoPoy88 said: and yet they scoffed at the mere suggestion that OANN was right wing. You brought up her name, so i’ll just throw this out there: just look up some of the questions Chanel Rion has posed in her time in Washington. OANN is definitely a right wing flamethrower, as much as MSNBC and CNN are left wing bomb throwers
Dopey Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8181867/amp/Fake-conman-dad-questionable-resume-Truth-Chanel-Rion-Trumps-favorite-reporter.html I think Donny boy can be swayed by a pretty face and nice ass. What a ?.
teef Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 instead of kneeling, i think i'm just going to do a split. 1 1
oldmanfan Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: That would be different, he was at the workplace in this instance. That would be sexual harassment, or creating a hostile work environment. I would be against that as well. See your point. I think the thing at OklaSt was a learning experience for all. Gundy learned something about his players and what they go through. His players might hopefully have learned to approach their coach one on one instead of through the media. 2
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Rocky Landing said: At best, I would say that you have a flawed definition of "freedom of speech" where someone's expression should be free of consequences. That's not the way it works, and it never has been. Gundy's opinion of OANN was strong enough that he wore their advertisement on his chest. That expression had consequences. And yet, you're against players kneeling during the anthem... If the left received the same amount of criticism as conservatives, my opinion would be totally different. I am just decrying the double standard is all.
Rockinon Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) On 6/14/2020 at 3:58 PM, HappyDays said: BLM isn't a single organization, it's an idea/movement. It doesn't surprise me that certain political groups have co-opted the name for their own purposes. There are also a bunch of racial justice groups that accept donations. As far as I know Act Blue is not a corporation, it's a middleman for donations to left-leaning candidates and organizations. Also none of this has anything to do with what I said. The public is changing its mind because people are talking about it. People are talking about it in part because of Kaepernick's protest. So to you and all the people who say "there are better ways to get your message across ," show me what else has been able to get results like that. Kaepernick started his protests in 2016. Since 2016 public support for BLM has doubled. I don't think that's a random coincidence. Public acceptance of the protests has also grown from 28% in 2016 to 35% in 2018 to 52% today: https://sports.yahoo.com/poll-on-opinion-shift-of-colin-kaepernick-could-explain-nf-ls-aboutface-on-players-protesting-during-anthem-220717209.html Whatever you think of the messaging it is helping to change people's minds. Look. I can get behind what BLM is supposed to be. When all donations go directly to a superpac that only supports democrats though, I am not on board with that. I am also not on board with defunding police departments across the US. If you go to BLM website, that is exactly what they are proposing. The people running BLM definitely have a socialist bent, a direction the democratic party has been steadily moving closer to. I agree that eyes need to be opened, but they must be fully opened. You can't say one injustice needs to be looked at while pretending not to see others. That is not justice. It's simply replacing one injustice for another. As for Keapernick, the way he went about his protest, it matters. He clearly was trying to draw battle lines putting blacks on one side and police on the other. The world is not all black and white. You cannot be condoning ruining the lives of one group so that you can protect another. If you want real positive change, the way forward is unity. Do you think unity under a socialist banner is the way to go? If you do, I truly feel sorry for you. Edited June 17, 2020 by Rockinon
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, Rockinon said: Look. I can get behind what BLM is supposed to be. When all donations go directly to a superpac that only supports democrats though, I am not on board with that. I am also not on board with defunding police departments across the US. If you go to BLM website, that is exactly what they are proposing. The people running BLM definitely have a socialist bent, a direction the democratic party has been steadily moving closer to. I agree that eyes need to be opened, but they must be fully opened. You can't say one injustice needs to be looked at while pretending not to see others. That is not justice. It's simply replacing one injustice for another. The idea of eliminating traditional police departments and replacing them with some sort of community patrols is an intriguing idea but city officials and people that support the idea are letting their emotions outrun any real thinking about the consequences of making such a change. As every action has a reaction people will evaluate the environment and adjust to the changing situation. If you eliminate the police force then: 1. residents with the ability to leave the city and concerned about their safety will leave the city. 2. businesses with the ability to leave the city and concerned about the safety of their business and their employees will leave the city. 3. insurers will cancel policies or raise premiums as their assessment of risk rises. 4. independent truck drivers and teamsters will refuse to deliver goods inside the city limit because the danger of hijackings and personal injury will increase. (happening already) 5. tax revenues will crash and cities will be forced to cut services and lay off employees. 6. non-residents will avoid the city decreasing business revenue and tax receipts. I could keep going and for reference some or all of these things happened to cities after the 1968 riots and some never recovered. 1
wppete Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 On 6/14/2020 at 7:58 AM, njbuff said: I don’t care if they kneel or not, but remember the backlash it caused in 2016 and the drop in tv ratings. No matter what you or I say, people are going to be alienated over this and is the NFL gonna be prepared for another ratings drop? We shall see. I also don't care if the kneel or stand. If the Bills are on TV I will watch, have been my whole life. Strictly as an observer and someone who really doesn't care about all this division the numbers and reaction online and social media is very telling that NFL numbers will be down considerably. Like I said I will be watching regardless because I believe we will win the Super Bowl this year. Check out These Stats and charts on NFL viewership over the years and pay attention to the dip and I suspect there will be a massive dip this year. https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/ I also googled "When did the kneeling protest start in the NFL" and according to Wikipedia it was in 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests_(2016–present) Now if I am a betting man, someone that doesn't give a crap if the players and coaches kneel or not I would bet the House that NFL ratings and Merchandise sales are going to have a major drop off this year. Another indicator is the record Low ESPN ratings and the DAZN and cable subscription cancelations. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/espn-golf-channel-tv-ratings-viewership-coronavirus Should be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Rico Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, wppete said: I also don't care if the kneel or stand. If the Bills are on TV I will watch, have been my whole life. Strictly as an observer and someone who really doesn't care about all this division the numbers and reaction online and social media is very telling that NFL numbers will be down considerably. Like I said I will be watching regardless because I believe we will win the Super Bowl this year. Check out These Stats and charts on NFL viewership over the years and pay attention to the dip and I suspect there will be a massive dip this year. https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/ I also googled "When did the kneeling protest start in the NFL" and according to Wikipedia it was in 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests_(2016–present) Now if I am a betting man, someone that doesn't give a crap if the players and coaches kneel or not I would bet the House that NFL ratings and Merchandise sales are going to have a major drop off this year. Another indicator is the record Low ESPN ratings and the DAZN and cable subscription cancelations. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/espn-golf-channel-tv-ratings-viewership-coronavirus Should be very interesting to see how this plays out. If it wasn’t for the pandemic, I think there would be a significant drop in ratings. Right now though, being able to watch football again is far bigger than any movement. 1
wppete Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Rico said: If it wasn’t for the pandemic, I think there would be a significant drop in ratings. Right now though, being able to watch football again is far bigger than any movement. Yeah I agree I will be watching football myself. Go Bills! Should be interesting how this all plays out.
Rockinon Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: The idea of eliminating traditional police departments and replacing them with some sort of community patrols is an intriguing idea but city officials and people that support the idea are letting their emotions outrun any real thinking about the consequences of making such a change. As every action has a reaction people will evaluate the environment and adjust to the changing situation. If you eliminate the police force then: 1. residents with the ability to leave the city and concerned about their safety will leave the city. 2. businesses with the ability to leave the city and concerned about the safety of their business and their employees will leave the city. 3. insurers will cancel policies or raise premiums as their assessment of risk rises. 4. independent truck drivers and teamsters will refuse to deliver goods inside the city limit because the danger of hijackings and personal injury will increase. (happening already) 5. tax revenues will crash and cities will be forced to cut services and lay off employees. 6. non-residents will avoid the city decreasing business revenue and tax receipts. I could keep going and for reference some or all of these things happened to cities after the 1968 riots and some never recovered. Good points. I am certain that most people supporting BLM are good people and do not want socialism. In fact, I believe the movement has been hijacked by some very unsavory people. Many people are waking up to this. Just hope enough see the ugliness of picking winners and losers and realize that most Americans have each others backs, regardless of color. All it takes is real communication....real understanding and folks working toward real solutions. Our country will never be perfect, but I truly believe that no other has come closer than ours.
Mango Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, wppete said: I also don't care if the kneel or stand. If the Bills are on TV I will watch, have been my whole life. Strictly as an observer and someone who really doesn't care about all this division the numbers and reaction online and social media is very telling that NFL numbers will be down considerably. Like I said I will be watching regardless because I believe we will win the Super Bowl this year. Check out These Stats and charts on NFL viewership over the years and pay attention to the dip and I suspect there will be a massive dip this year. https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/ I also googled "When did the kneeling protest start in the NFL" and according to Wikipedia it was in 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests_(2016–present) Now if I am a betting man, someone that doesn't give a crap if the players and coaches kneel or not I would bet the House that NFL ratings and Merchandise sales are going to have a major drop off this year. Another indicator is the record Low ESPN ratings and the DAZN and cable subscription cancelations. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/espn-golf-channel-tv-ratings-viewership-coronavirus Should be very interesting to see how this plays out. This is way overblown. I quickly googled articles to refresh my memory on this, and it seems the ratings drop was much-ado about nothing. The NFL ratings are in line with the drop in viewership with all pro sports in the US. Including a sport like NASCAR that doesn't have any kneeling. Over half of those who said they wouldn't watch due to kneeling also stated that they do not follow sports to begin with. https://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/politifact-trumps-mostly-false-claim-that-nfl-ratings-are-way-down/2338751/ Also, Sr. VP of Research for Fox emphatically says that kneeling is not a reason for drops in games. Also states total viewership in 2016 actually GREW! https://www.si.com/media/2017/08/31/colin-kaepernick-nfl-ratings-cbs-study-sean-mcmanus 1
wppete Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Mango said: This is way overblown. I quickly googled articles to refresh my memory on this, and it seems the ratings drop was much-ado about nothing. The NFL ratings are in line with the drop in viewership with all pro sports in the US. Including a sport like NASCAR that doesn't have any kneeling. Over half of those who said they wouldn't watch due to kneeling also stated that they do not follow sports to begin with. https://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/politifact-trumps-mostly-false-claim-that-nfl-ratings-are-way-down/2338751/ Also, Sr. VP of Research for Fox emphatically says that kneeling is not a reason for drops in games. Also states total viewership in 2016 actually GREW! https://www.si.com/media/2017/08/31/colin-kaepernick-nfl-ratings-cbs-study-sean-mcmanus Nice. I guess time will tell. We will see how this plays out in the 2020 season. For one I hope the NFL is a success.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, wppete said: I also don't care if the kneel or stand. If the Bills are on TV I will watch, have been my whole life. Strictly as an observer and someone who really doesn't care about all this division the numbers and reaction online and social media is very telling that NFL numbers will be down considerably. Like I said I will be watching regardless because I believe we will win the Super Bowl this year. Check out These Stats and charts on NFL viewership over the years and pay attention to the dip and I suspect there will be a massive dip this year. https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/ I also googled "When did the kneeling protest start in the NFL" and according to Wikipedia it was in 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests_(2016–present) Now if I am a betting man, someone that doesn't give a crap if the players and coaches kneel or not I would bet the House that NFL ratings and Merchandise sales are going to have a major drop off this year. Another indicator is the record Low ESPN ratings and the DAZN and cable subscription cancelations. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/espn-golf-channel-tv-ratings-viewership-coronavirus Should be very interesting to see how this plays out. I respect your position but there are a lot of factors. 1) sports networks are dropping without sports. Weird 2) The NFL wants every dollar but if fans are going to stop watching the league over a silent protest over racial equality and police brutality, is that really a loss. There are some fans who love football who love to drop the n word and other slurs. There are fans who send death threats to players who mess up. Are those really loses? Personally, I actually care about the players I root for. 3) the Cowboys and Pats had the best records that year. What percentage of their fans stopped watching that year? A lot easier to protest the nfl when watching the 3-13 Bears (a huge market). 4) the thing I find so disingenuous is the people who would quit watching football over this love to use played out terms like snowflakes. I would argue stopping watching a sport you love over a silent protest is the definition of being a snowflake. 5) these fans who are going to quit are no different that the Bills fans who used to post they were done being Bills fans when they had a bad season. They love to say how they quitting. Well guess what? No one cares. Just quit. Some else will take your place. there are 3 times I would quit being a Bills fans: if they moved (this is the only way I would outright quit); if they signed Vick (I would have rejoined them after he was gone); and if they drafted Joe Mixon. Where is the same energy for a dude knocking a woman out on camera? I missed those protests and threatening to quit watching the sport. Jerry Jones loves to tour his patriotism but he also loves signing Greg Hardy and other criminals. In closing, I think Trump is an absolute joke of human being. It blows my mind that is even a political opinion (I would think he was a joke no matter what party he is because our 2 party system is a joke). Please read any threads when it was talked about he buying the Bills. I hated him long before he ran for office (and he was a Democrat back then). But why would I quit being a fan because Rex the idiot led a Trump rally and RI (who has long been a scumbag who threaten to shoot up funeral home , cut his dad’s head off, and beat yo his grandmother) was on the team. I love how people think RI is misunderstood and Kaepernick is the devil. botomline, it’s America and people could do whatever they want. I actually hope people do quit because ticket prices will go down. But I love that the people who love saying how soft this country is are some of the softest human beings around. This country could use a lot more empathy and listening to others. I have many flaws but if you are willing to have a conversation with me, I’ll listen. And the beautiful thing about that is I have a super diverse friend group. That’s what America is supposed to be. Sorry for the rant. blow up political parties 2 2
wppete Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I respect your position but there are a lot of factors. 1) sports networks are dropping without sports. Weird 2) The NFL wants every dollar but if fans are going to stop watching the league over a silent protest over racial equality and police brutality, is that really a loss. There are some fans who love football who love to drop the n word and other slurs. There are fans who send death threats to players who mess up. Are those really loses? Personally, I actually care about the players I root for. 3) the Cowboys and Pats had the best records that year. What percentage of their fans stopped watching that year? A lot easier to protest the nfl when watching the 3-13 Bears (a huge market). 4) the thing I find so disingenuous is the people who would quit watching football over this love to use played out terms like snowflakes. I would argue stopping watching a sport you love over a silent protest is the definition of being a snowflake. 5) these fans who are going to quit are no different that the Bills fans who used to post they were done being Bills fans when they had a bad season. They love to say how they quitting. Well guess what? No one cares. Just quit. Some else will take your place. there are 3 times I would quit being a Bills fans: if they moved (this is the only way I would outright quit); if they signed Vick (I would have rejoined them after he was gone); and if they drafted Joe Mixon. Where is the same energy for a dude knocking a woman out on camera? I missed those protests and threatening to quit watching the sport. Jerry Jones loves to tour his patriotism but he also loves signing Greg Hardy and other criminals. In closing, I think Trump is an absolute joke of human being. It blows my mind that is even a political opinion (I would think he was a joke no matter what party he is because our 2 party system is a joke). Please read any threads when it was talked about he buying the Bills. I hated him long before he ran for office (and he was a Democrat back then). But why would I quit being a fan because Rex the idiot led a Trump rally and RI (who has long been a scumbag who threaten to shoot up funeral home , cut his dad’s head off, and beat yo his grandmother) was on the team. I love how people think RI is misunderstood and Kaepernick is the devil. botomline, it’s America and people could do whatever they want. I actually hope people do quit because ticket prices will go down. But I love that the people who love saying how soft this country is are some of the softest human beings around. This country could use a lot more empathy and listening to others. I have many flaws but if you are willing to have a conversation with me, I’ll listen. And the beautiful thing about that is I have a super diverse friend group. That’s what America is supposed to be. Sorry for the rant. blow up political parties Very well said. The 2020 season will be very telling. Go Bills! 1 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, Rockinon said: Good points. I am certain that most people supporting BLM are good people and do not want socialism. In fact, I believe the movement has been hijacked by some very unsavory people. Many people are waking up to this. Just hope enough see the ugliness of picking winners and losers and realize that most Americans have each others backs, regardless of color. All it takes is real communication....real understanding and folks working toward real solutions. Our country will never be perfect, but I truly believe that no other has come closer than ours. Isn’t that true about this entire country? I firmly believe that most of this country is in the middle on most issues. Except we have constructed a bloods and crips way of thinking on every issue. People argue so hard based on their gang when the vast majority of Americans are in the middle. It’s the loudest idiots on both sides (2 choices for a country as big and diverse is an absolute joke) that are ones who divide us. Just now, wppete said: Very well said. The 2020 season will be very telling. Go Bills! Also, I would love to know percentage of fans who won’t watch the Bills when we are division favorites because of the kneeling. A lot easier to have that energy during 6-10 seasons. 3
Spielman Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 The NFL has lost me as a fan. To disrespect the flag means you hate this country. If you don’t like it, Americans are free to leave and see if some other country will pay you millions to run around in tights on a 100 yard piece of grass. I will support and enjoy my country to the fullest with other hobbies than wasting time watching foosball. and that is MY right . 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Spielman said: The NFL has lost me as a fan. To disrespect the flag means you hate this country. If you don’t like it, Americans are free to leave and see if some other country will pay you millions to run around in tights on a 100 yard piece of grass. I will support and enjoy my country to the fullest with other hobbies than wasting time watching foosball. and that is MY right . Thanks for letting us know. It won’t be the same without you. ? 2 2 1
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