Rockinon Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 Just now, Don Otreply said: So are you saying that makes it okay to continue the blatant injustice and racism? Or is it all just fake news in your eyes, What truly is your point? Asking for a friend... ....asking for a friend. The point is that not everything is what it seems. The fake news comment is cute BTW. Apparently you didn't even read my previous post in this thread. If you had, you would know where I stand and why.
Bferra13 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, DCOrange said: They aren't really doing it on the company's time in the way that you're imagining one of us doing it though. They're doing it before their work actually begins. It just so happens that professional athletes are in the public eye before they actually start working in a way that we are not. It cost the league viewers and ratings last time they did it. League dictates the rules, not the other way around. Semantics aside, for all intents and purposes they are "on the clock" when they are costing the league revenue turning people by tuning out over this stuff. If the NFL is fine with it, so be it. But it's going to he very interesting when the ratings start dropping. Edited June 14, 2020 by Bferra13
BillsFan17 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Bferra13 said: It cost the league viewers and ratings last time they did it. League dictates the rules, not the other way around. Semantics aside, for all intents and purposes they are "on the clock" when they are costing the league revenue turning people by tuning out over this stuff. If the NFL is fine with it, so be it. But it's going to he very interesting when the ratings start dropping. They are 100% on the clock, however, the league gave into the pressure and now has reformed their view. The fact that this is such a debated issue makes no sense. Either you agree with the kneeling or you don't, but there are within their full rights to do it. The same way we are within our full rights to support their case or not.
Blank Stare Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: You keep assuming I'm white, does that give you control over the conversation? No, I’m pretty sure I know. But, if I’m wrong and you’re not white (and that’s possible), then you’ve got bigger problems than arguing with me on a message board.
muppy Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 4 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: I would expect just about every player on every team to kneel This year. What will be interesting is whether the message will be lost/diluted because “everyone is now doing it.” Interesting take. Might some submit to pressure to conform and show team unity with the majority where otherwise they might not... maybe.... Its not the kneeling that concerns me. Its the awareness and discussion that such an action will or won't bring that does. What football players and coaches do will be meaningful and cause of discussion either way...GOOD I say. Discussion leads to communication and awareness which leads to action. again GOOD!
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, StHustle said: I am also a successful black business owner in America. But I am not going to act as if systemic racism isnt alive and well because I overcame. I am a Hutch Tech and RIT grad but from one of the most infamous neighborhoods on Buffalo's east side. I made some bad decisions and became a felon sentenced to 2 years in prison for possession of marijuana back in 2010. Yet I overcame. Why? Because I had 2 great parents (one a retired Army major and the other a retired NYS Corrections officer) who taught me valuable lessons I chose not to use until my back was against the wall, an ex felon with few options at making a living. The point I am making is the PARENTS aspect. I am extremely blessed to have had 2 great parents. This is very rare in the ghettos of America. Its easy to look at people in theses ghettos and blame them for their positions but if you understood the history behind it and the American system designed by pure racists to keep the black man down, you'd recognize a game with the deck totally stacked against us. Please take a sec to watch this short video and maybe you can gain some insight: I did watch the video and am familiar with some of these practices like red-lining and school funding. In reading your story I found some common themes with my life as I also had some issues to work through when I was younger and perhaps got a break from the cops that you didn't get. I also had a strong pair of parents and through listening to stories of others and sharing mine through cultural workshops and events I've come to find that it's a common theme for most people that manage to navigate effectively through life whatever their race, ethnicity, religion, and so on might be. Something to think about, in pursuit finding common ground to discuss and define solutions in an environment of civility, honesty, and respect to move forward. I heard it said once there's three sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth. So while I agree systemic racism exists to some degree I also believe some of the problems faced by African-American communities are self-inflicted. I'd be interested in hearing some feedback. They are: Crime and violent acts committed by members of the community against other member of the community. A dysfunctional educational system to leaves students without the basic skills needed to start life as young adults. A social services system that fosters dependence and discourages the formation and maintenance of family units. A self-serving political system that provides power, money, and prestige to members of the political class but produces no real benefits to their constituents in the community.
Ecmic82 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: It cost the league viewers and ratings last time they did it. League dictates the rules, not the other way around. Semantics aside, for all intents and purposes they are "on the clock" when they are costing the league revenue turning people by tuning out over this stuff. If the NFL is fine with it, so be it. But it's going to he very interesting when the ratings start dropping. I think at this point the NFL is shifting toward a more long term financial strategy. I'm confident in saying the NFL will allow players to kneel this season. I'm also confident that the NFL's position won't be rooted in some moral obligation to allow peaceful protest. They'll allow peaceful protest because they think it's the more financially advantageous position to take. And I don't think they're wrong. The NFL has a pretty good track record of knowing where the money is. Edited June 14, 2020 by Ecmic82
muppy Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 4 hours ago, K-9 said: I appreciate this and agree, but I’m still trying to get to the “why.” Human nature is one important variable to be sure but what’s at the root of that evolution? There are tribal elements involved but it goes farther than that, I think. Anyway, I appreciate the incite you offered. haha incite..insight.....2 words with very different meanings..freudian slip? ? it made me chuckle..... 1
BillsFan17 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, TheProcess said: No, I’m pretty sure I know. But, if I’m wrong and you’re not white (and that’s possible), then you’ve got bigger problems than arguing with me on a message board. You're pretty sure? Moreover, the fact my race, religion, creed, means more than my views says more about you than me. Also, this is far from arguing, this is someone trying to project, and failing. I don't need some complete stranger guessing my ethnicity, acting upon that assumption, than trying to insult me. You are part of the problem.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 53 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Because they are star athletes you prop them up, thats your world view. To me they are entertainers. You couldn't name the top five utmost renowned world scientists, doctors, educators, etc... but you can tell me the top five QBs are in the NFL. I know the difference between occupations and professions, you on the other hand choose to glorify one. That in no way makes them more a value based source of information. I've met all walks of life with all sorts of occupations with very high intellect and very profound world views, who didn't have massive wealth, didn't have a platform, didnt have an audience, and i didnt immediately classify them as less important than athletes. So, yeah, clearly you have nothing left to say to me. 15 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: You keep assuming I'm white, does that give you control over the conversation? who said I came name a zillion athletes and only a few scientists? How is that answering my own question? So far today, I've watched a bunch of people argue with them selves. Some seem to want to grandstand, virtue signal, or straight up just seem to enjoy confrontation. You are jumping to conclusions all over the map. I’m not assuming that you are any race. Not really sure why you keep bringing that up? I really don’t care. You are trying to act like athletes and Jiffy Lube employees are the same. That’s naive/ignorant/wrong. They have vastly different platforms and worth. They have vastly different platforms and influence. If you don’t understand that I can’t help you.
muppy Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 3 hours ago, H2o said: Do we have to have a new thread about every single person who says they are going to kneel, then rehash the exact same arguments over and over and over again? It's growing quite tiresome. Why not just have one "kneeling" subforum where the people who love to get into pissing matches can have at it so we can stick to the actual game on here? or maybe not click open a thread to complain and attempt to squelch anyone elses thoughts..free speech free to choose what you click and what not to...SMH
nucci Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 56 minutes ago, Putin said: Not if the ratings are low contracts are already in place.. 57 minutes ago, Ecmic82 said: LOL I know right? I mean, If Josh Allen begins to protest in support of Black Lives Matter DURING LIVE GAME ACTION, I'll be the FIRST to call for his benching or removing him from the team. But people really want to act like completely abdicating one's responsibility to their employer is analogous to an athlete taking a knee during the national anthem? Come on. I've seen him take a knee right before halftime though
ColoradoBills Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 Today is June 14th (Flag Day). I'm flying mine in front of my house. This is one of the days that citizens should be "honoring the flag" and what it stands for and IMO football/sporting events don't quite measure up. A short story that happened this past Friday. I had some friends over for drinks and this "stuff" on the news got brought up. One of my friends was all over the America "Love it or Leave it" stuff. When he was done I asked him when will he properly disposed of the faded, tattered and ripped flag he has been flying non stop in front of his house for years a few doors away. He said yes he needs to do that. My answer to his "patriotic rant" was, "I will not even listen to your opinion until you 'personally' take care of your own house (literally) first, the ex-Boy Scout compels me to say this". Other friends laughed at this and the subject was changed. The flag is still flying today. This story has a moral in it somewhere.............I'll leave it to the readers to interpret it.
Ecmic82 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, nucci said: contracts are already in place.. I've seen him take a knee right before halftime though OK, a QB absolutely needs to yell out "Black Lives Matter" during a kneel-down at some point this year ? 1
BillsFan17 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: You are jumping to conclusions all over the map. I’m not assuming that you are any race. Not really sure why you keep bringing that up? I really don’t care. You are trying to act like athletes and Jiffy Lube employees are the same. That’s naive/ignorant/wrong. They have vastly different platforms and worth. They have vastly different platforms and influence. If you don’t understand that I can’t help you. No, they don't hold different worth. You keep assigning different worth to them. There is nothing hard to understand you keep acting like a 12 year old with posters on your wall of our favorite athletes. I pointed out you couldn't name top people of actual prominence and accolades in the real world. You keep harping on athletes being superior to the common man in terms of their message. Which is patently false and very naive. Again, keep living in your childhood room, the rest of us would live to be adults.
BillsFan17 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Margarita said: or maybe not click open a thread to complain and attempt to squelch anyone elses thoughts..free speech free to choose what you click and what not to...SMH Yeah, and those same people have the freedom to comment on anything thread these choose. Trying to silence people's opinions you disagree with, SMH
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: No, they don't hold different worth. You keep assigning different worth to them. There is nothing hard to understand you keep acting like a 12 year old with posters on your wall of our favorite athletes. I pointed out you couldn't name top people of actual prominence and accolades in the real world. You keep harping on athletes being superior to the common man in terms of their message. Which is patently false and very naive. Again, keep living in your childhood room, the rest of us would live to be adults. Oh man this conversation is getting weird. If you don’t agree that athletes have a larger platform than 99.99% of the population you aren’t smart. That’s not up for debate. It’s a fact. That’s all that I ever said. The reason that their voices matter is because they have an audience. Edited June 14, 2020 by Kirby Jackson 1
Blank Stare Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: You're pretty sure? Moreover, the fact my race, religion, creed, means more than my views says more about you than me. Also, this is far from arguing, this is someone trying to project, and failing. I don't need some complete stranger guessing my ethnicity, acting upon that assumption, than trying to insult me. You are part of the problem. I’m part of the problem? ? Ok, guy. There’s that white fragility kicking in. Like I said, history has eyes for people like you. Enjoy that life!
BillsFan17 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, TheProcess said: I’m part of the problem? ? Ok, guy. There’s that white fragility kicking in. Like I said, history has eyes for people like you. Enjoy that life! Again, you keep assuming im white? Why? Why are you that insecure you need to project me being white? 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Oh man this conversation is getting weird. If you don’t agree that athletes have a larger platform than 99.99% of the population you aren’t smart. That’s not up for debate. It’s a fact. That’s all that I ever said. The reason that their voices matter is because they have an audience. Yup, im not smart, you have nothing to back your argument up with, so I'm no smart. Well played... this place is becoming an echo chamber of stupidity and its evident.
HappyDays Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, Rockinon said: BLM has a big following because people assume the name is exactly what it stands for. It doesn't. It is not a movement. It is a corporation that collects money for the democrat party. Go ahead and make a donation. You are directed to ActBlue. This is another corporation, a superpac, that takes in huge money for the democrat party. Everyone listed on their board of directors is white. No one knows who heads BLM themselves. That is kept secret. But if you want to donate to that cause go for it. The only thing you'll be doing is sending money to the democrat political party. None of which has anything to do with actual black lives. BLM isn't a single organization, it's an idea/movement. It doesn't surprise me that certain political groups have co-opted the name for their own purposes. There are also a bunch of racial justice groups that accept donations. As far as I know Act Blue is not a corporation, it's a middleman for donations to left-leaning candidates and organizations. Also none of this has anything to do with what I said. The public is changing its mind because people are talking about it. People are talking about it in part because of Kaepernick's protest. So to you and all the people who say "there are better ways to get your message across ," show me what else has been able to get results like that. Kaepernick started his protests in 2016. Since 2016 public support for BLM has doubled. I don't think that's a random coincidence. Public acceptance of the protests has also grown from 28% in 2016 to 35% in 2018 to 52% today: https://sports.yahoo.com/poll-on-opinion-shift-of-colin-kaepernick-could-explain-nf-ls-aboutface-on-players-protesting-during-anthem-220717209.html Whatever you think of the messaging it is helping to change people's minds. 1
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