muppy Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, BillsFan17 said: Yeah, and those same people have the freedom to comment on anything thread these choose. Trying to silence people's opinions you disagree with, SMH I never said they didnt...except entering a thread to say shut up seems counterproductive to any DISCUSSION..lets all go outside and shut our traps Gotcha lol dozens of threads to choose to post in just sayin'....... Edited June 15, 2020 by Muppy highlighting
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Again, you keep assuming im white? Why? Why are you that insecure you need to project me being white? Yup, im not smart, you have nothing to back your argument up with, so I'm no smart. Well played... this place is becoming an echo chamber of stupidity and its evident. So you don’t think that athletes have a bigger audience than the Jiffy Lube employee?
Putin Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 31 minutes ago, Ecmic82 said: OK, a QB absolutely needs to yell out "Black Lives Matter" during a kneel-down at some point this year ? I would love to see Josh do it 50 times this year in support of BLM after every DT !!!
Rc2catch Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 I’ll support whatever the teams stance is on this. There’s really no right or wrong in this situation. If they want to kneel or not shouldn’t change the product on the field, and at the end of the day that’s all I care about as a fan. Not downgrading the BLM movement but it’s highly possible it’s old news by kickoff of week 1. Statements have been made. They’re continuing to be made. It won’t be fresh by kickoff. I fully expect all professional sports to have some form of endorsement of BLM at every game rather it’s an opening statement on screen or somewhere on the field. At this point I don’t see most of this as genuine as it is damage control and hopping on the trend for most public figures. If 90% of these people actually cared they would have been vocal a long time ago. Now they just want to state they’re not against BLM 1 1
John from Riverside Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Doc Brown said: There's nothing more American than allowing players to kneel during the national anthem. "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." A smart move for the NFL after the National Anthem would be to ask everybody in the stadium (including the players) to rise and have 15 seconds of silence to honor the brave men and women in the military to honor those who are serving/have served or died defending this country. I didnt have and dont have any problem with players kneeling. Just please dont burn my flag...... 1
Dick_Cheney Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 53 minutes ago, Ecmic82 said: I think at this point the NFL is shifting toward a more long term financial strategy. I'm confident in saying the NFL will allow players to kneel this season. I'm also confident that the NFL's position won't be rooted in some moral obligation to allow peaceful protest. They'll allow peaceful protest because they think it's the more financially advantageous position to take. And I don't think they're wrong. The NFL has a pretty good track record of knowing where the money is. The NFL has always been a long term strategy. They've also been mostly good in toeing the line when an issue comes up that's sensitive, and waiting to pick a side until they absolutely have to. Just take a look at how domestic abuse situations were handled when they used to occur, versus how they occur in more recent incidents. Much less tolerance and appropriately so. The NFL will allow peaceful protest because they are finally recognizing that the players are the ones who have the power. The players, again, predominantly people of color, have recognized as many other groups of people have recently, that they are the blood of which the big machine runs. There is strength in numbers and the players hold more cards than the owners do, but getting enough people on the same page to organize and demonstrate effectively is the hard part. The people and the players have had enough of the blind eye being turned to this issue, as well as it being covered up under the bogus framing of being non-patriotic or whatever. The NFL recognizes that the old, conservative, racist demographic which it has relied on for too long now isn't going to be around a whole lot longer. At least not in a majority sort of sense as it has been. If the league wants to be an organization that younger people, who are far more socially aware, tolerant, and understanding compared to the generations before them, feel like giving their time and money to, this is the only approach to take, and it is right and it is long overdue. 2
muppy Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: I didnt have and dont have any problem with players kneeling. Just please dont burn my flag...... that to me as well is straight up disrespect even though protected speech I'll never be okay with it personally. Except when done respectfully to retire an old tattered by weather one. Ive witnessed that during my time in Scouts .. its reverent the opposite of disrespectful. 1
Rocky Landing Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said: No, you said it was easy. I have done my research, id love to see yours. Telling me its so simple I should do it either means you can't do it your self, or there aren't any and it easier to deflect. You are the one deflecting. If you read my post, I made it clear that it was not about stats. Instead, I gave what I hope you would agree was a thoughtful response of what I believe to be the essence of systemic racism, with examples-- all of which you have chosen to ignore. In fact, you have ignored the entire post, and instead engaged in straw-man argument. Frankly, I don't really think statistics are all that important to recognize systemic racism. If you don't understand its precepts, I don't know that stats are going to help all that much. Be that as it may, I did exactly what I suggested you do, and googled "stats for systemic racism," and immediately found this WaPo article with a bunch: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/if-you-dont-believe-systemic-racism-is-real-explain-these-statistics/2020/06/12/ce0dff6e-acc7-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html I suspect this will be my last response to this. I don't think you're really interested in an honest discussion. 1
Heavy Kevi Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Don Otreply said: It is a serious conundrum to be sure, I would be of the opinion that if an employee is doing harm to their co- workers well being or their employer who is in turn doing no harm to others in their business dealings then that hypothetical person is the problem, and should be let go, but on the other hand if said person does their protesting away from work, and even if their employer dislikes it, that person should not be punished for exercising their rights, again if they do their job well. Having been the manager of a small business for many years I understand your point. You are correct that it is the large corporations that are the ones most likely to abuse others through their business dealings, this is where greed and power abuses show there ugly heads most frequently. That is where regulation of capitalism is most appropriate and needed. I have no problem with folk creating and having wealth, I do however have a problem with those individuals or entities that allow greed and power lust to purposefully restrict others from that opportunity. Being a good neighbor as an individual or business is a necessity if one holds having a great society as a priority, which I do. I truly understand that perfect is not gonna happen, but doing ones best to not be part of the problem is alway desirable. This time I agree with every word!
ColoradoBills Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I didnt have and dont have any problem with players kneeling. Just please dont burn my flag...... ...........sorry, but I have burned a number of flags. There are other options but never throw a full flag in the garbage. Did you know the Boy Scouts of America is one of the very few organizations that have an official code for flag retirement? Respect for our nation’s symbols are an integral part of being a reverent, responsible Scout; thus we have specific rules for the appropriate retirement of the United States flag. In fact, conducting a flag retirement ceremony is a very meaningful opportunity for Scouts and Scouters to reflect on the meaning of the flag as a great symbol of freedom. The BSA Handbook states: “A national flag that is worn beyond repair may be burned in a fire. The ceremony should be conducted with dignity and respect and the flag burned completely to ashes.” 1
John from Riverside Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: ...........sorry, but I have burned a number of flags. There are other options but never throw a full flag in the garbage. Did you know the Boy Scouts of America is one of the very few organizations that have an official code for flag retirement? Respect for our nation’s symbols are an integral part of being a reverent, responsible Scout; thus we have specific rules for the appropriate retirement of the United States flag. In fact, conducting a flag retirement ceremony is a very meaningful opportunity for Scouts and Scouters to reflect on the meaning of the flag as a great symbol of freedom. The BSA Handbook states: “A national flag that is worn beyond repair may be burned in a fire. The ceremony should be conducted with dignity and respect and the flag burned completely to ashes.” I know all this. I have been a member of a flag detail while in the Air Force including doing the proper way to fold flags at funerals, raising the flag in the mornings and lowering them all of that. I am talking about buring a flag as a public statement of protest. Not retiring a flag that has been worn. 1 1
BillsFan17 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 17 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: You are the one deflecting. If you read my post, I made it clear that it was not about stats. Instead, I gave what I hope you would agree was a thoughtful response of what I believe to be the essence of systemic racism, with examples-- all of which you have chosen to ignore. In fact, you have ignored the entire post, and instead engaged in straw-man argument. Frankly, I don't really think statistics are all that important to recognize systemic racism. If you don't understand its precepts, I don't know that stats are going to help all that much. Be that as it may, I did exactly what I suggested you do, and googled "stats for systemic racism," and immediately found this WaPo article with a bunch: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/if-you-dont-believe-systemic-racism-is-real-explain-these-statistics/2020/06/12/ce0dff6e-acc7-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html I suspect this will be my last response to this. I don't think you're really interested in an honest discussion. I'll counter with Larry Edler and Thomas Sowell 1
ColoradoBills Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I know all this. I have been a member of a flag detail while in the Air Force including doing the proper way to fold flags at funerals, raising the flag in the mornings and lowering them all of that. I am talking about buring a flag as a public statement of protest. Not retiring a flag that has been worn. John, I know you are ex-Air Force (I've seen you mention that in other posts) as am I. I should of stipulated in my post that I knew what you meant but thought it a good opportunity to let others know about proper flag etiquette. I was wrong not to acknowledge that and apologize. I too also agree with your other post about players "kneeling". I have no problem with citizens right to protest. That fact is what makes this country special in history.
John from Riverside Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: John, I know you are ex-Air Force (I've seen you mention that in other posts) as am I. I should of stipulated in my post that I knew what you meant but thought it a good opportunity to let others know about proper flag etiquette. I was wrong not to acknowledge that and apologize. I too also agree with your other post about players "kneeling". I have no problem with citizens right to protest. That fact is what makes this country special in history. Colorado not a problem at all 1
Yav Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 Why is this even an issue for anyone? Seriously, have any of you gone to Arrowhead for a game? They replace the lyrics of the national anthem to “home of the chiefs”, they’ve been doing that for years and not one person has said anything. That is more disrespectful than a person choosing to listen to the song, and peacefully take a knee 3
H2o Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Margarita said: or maybe not click open a thread to complain and attempt to squelch anyone elses thoughts..free speech free to choose what you click and what not to...SMH Did I say shut down all of them? Nope. I said make a subforum, hence free speech is still in full effect. Your right to bicker and claim your opinion is the correct opinion still stands. Syh all you want. The incessant pissing and moaning that goes back and forth, mainly in the same responses just over a different name, is quite tired at this point.
Returntoglory Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 Sure. As long as it's not during the national anthem. If they would like to stand in honor of our flag and then AFTER the SSB is played take a knee, I'm all for that.
muppy Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, H2o said: Did I say shut down all of them? Nope. I said make a subforum, hence free speech is still in full effect. Your right to bicker and claim your opinion is the correct opinion still stands. Syh all you want. The incessant pissing and moaning that goes back and forth, mainly in the same responses just over a different name, is quite tired at this point. you are imposing this victimhood on yourself I dont buy it. dozens of threads in the football forum you know what it will entail if you enter by the thread title ...enter if it interests you or don't but don't dictate where things belong....... your role isn't Moderator..talk to them instead just a suggestion
Julio Hopkins Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 No duh, it was obviously never about the flag or military according to the people who actually did the kneeling.
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Dick_Cheney said: The NFL has always been a long term strategy. They've also been mostly good in toeing the line when an issue comes up that's sensitive, and waiting to pick a side until they absolutely have to. Just take a look at how domestic abuse situations were handled when they used to occur, versus how they occur in more recent incidents. Much less tolerance and appropriately so. The NFL will allow peaceful protest because they are finally recognizing that the players are the ones who have the power. The players, again, predominantly people of color, have recognized as many other groups of people have recently, that they are the blood of which the big machine runs. There is strength in numbers and the players hold more cards than the owners do, but getting enough people on the same page to organize and demonstrate effectively is the hard part. The people and the players have had enough of the blind eye being turned to this issue, as well as it being covered up under the bogus framing of being non-patriotic or whatever. The NFL recognizes that the old, conservative, racist demographic which it has relied on for too long now isn't going to be around a whole lot longer. At least not in a majority sort of sense as it has been. If the league wants to be an organization that younger people, who are far more socially aware, tolerant, and understanding compared to the generations before them, feel like giving their time and money to, this is the only approach to take, and it is right and it is long overdue. This is clearly not true. Teams cut and trade guys at will. Injured guys get paid off and released. Kaepernick never got back in. Every owner knows there is a never-ending stream of players who would do anything to get on a roster. They have the weakest union in sports and for the most part, do not have guaranteed contracts. The power is overwhelmingly in favor of the owners. Nothing recently can change that. Owners make a big show of "allowing" players to kneel during a game....then it's get out there and make our money. Nothing has changed. This is window dressing. It costs owners nothing and they have waited until after even F-ing NASCAR made a move. So bold!
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