Chris Simms thinks Stidham is more talented than Tua

[Billzfan37]

16 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

You're correct about hitting wide open receivers.  It wasn't a knock on him. The point was that he very seldom had to hit a tight throw against great coverage with a pass rush in his face.  Most recently he struggled to do that against a great LSU secondary.  He'll have to prove that he can do it on a regular basis to win games in the league.  Until both of these guys show something in real games, who's to say how much better one is over the other.  It's just speculation.  Tua also needs to prove that he isn't an injury machine.

You just listed a few things that Josh Allen has never done.

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:06 PM, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but you guys are off on this and yes Chris Simms is an idiot.

 

I watch a ton of college football as well.  I went to Clemson so I am no Alabama fan, and I am always wary of overhyping a player with great support cast, particularly with that program, but Tua is an absolute scary good NFL prospect.  This is not an Alabama MLB with 3 NFL worthy DL in front of him clearing the way where you can't quite tell from the film.  This is a quarterback making jaw dropping throws on a consistent basis.  I acknowledge the injury risk, but his arm talent is undeniable and already better than 90% of current NFL Qbs.  I have never seen a QB with his touch/accuracy/timing at the college level and he has way more arm strength than Tebow/Leinart.  He can sit in the pocket and pick you apart and also keep plays alive like Russel Wilson.  His throws on the run are unbelievable.  The only guy I can compare his arm talent to is Drew Brees.  I'm scared as heck as to what he might do in Miami the next ten years if they can even partially right the ship on their rebuild with the rest of their roster.  In my mind he is single handedly the biggest threat the Bills face in the AFCE.

You obviously are a very big Tua fan.  Which of course is your right.  But the NFL and college games are totally different.  And to gush that much about any prospect coming out of college and transitioning to the pro game is just way over the top.  And that is at any position.  To think he is just going to come in and tear it up like noone in recent memory is just very unlikely.  If he can come in and play like Kyler Murray did last year, that would be a successful season.  

[HOUSE]

Any quarterback drafted by Miami will automatically be worse...

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

These are your best arguments? Again, you're not going back to his real argument. You're the one who asked, and now you found a fragment and act like it holds his main arguments. It doesn't. Then you find another fragment that's about Taysom Hill but not about whether he's a top 40 guy?  "Bridgewater made a fool out of Simms ... yet Simms is doubling down a year later with the same nonsense"? Just not true. On your barely connected clip there he talks about not trusting Bridgewater, where did he say in the recent stuff the same things about Bridgewater? He didn't. Where is Bridgewater ranked? You're making these bizarre arguments.

 

Simms said, again in your fragment, "The big thing I saw especially during the season a little this past season, and then especially last preseason." And that little thing gets you all upset? It's a nothing, and you have to cut out the words right after to get upset at all. He says, everywhere, that he wants to see more, can't put him higher till he does. You act like Simms said he'd showed growth - in the pass game - during the season, but he didn't say that, 

 

You're so desperate to make your argument that you're saying stuff you can't possibly know. "Florio gave him all the time he wanted," you say. Really? You were in the studio? Nobody was in his ear or in front of him giving him the hurry up sign? Nobody had said, "We've only got two minutes, so be quick here?" They didn't tell him they wanted to talk about something else before break? You know this? Nonsense. He might have gotten all the time he wanted and he might not have. The fact that you felt you had to throw this in despite having no clue is of a piece with most of the rest of your post. Going off target talking about Bridgewater, getting upset about one little phrase. "Other than that he says the guy throws hard," you say, but again even in your little fragment he gives a bunch more substance about what he's seen in terms of improvements in making progressions and reading the field. If there's nothing there to get angry about, you're making stuff up. 

 

You are trying to stick with this fragment because you wanna make your point with as little work as possible. And again, even the fragment there is very reasonable. You have to stretch and bob and weave, and your whole thing with the adjectives and adverbs, "he goes on endlessly". Endlessly, for you, is four seconds? Really? Dude, again, you're showing more about yourself than about him. "... eyes darting weirdly." "... literally babbles." You've got a major case of confirmation bias going on here. 

 

You don't like Simms. Fine, whatever. You disagree with is opinion. Fine, whatever. But your takes are getting wacky and off-target with Bridgewater.

 

Honestly, I've had enough of this. You won't even go and look at his main argument. You're throwing irrelevant stuff in here, it's not worth my time.

 

I generally find you a good poster, I'm not clear on whatever has you so upset here. Whatever it is, it's not holding my interest and the conversation just isn't working well. I'm pretty sure you can agree with me that much. See you on the boards.

 

 

 

 

 

1.  Simms last Fall said Hill was better than Teddy B  because he "had shown growth" at QB and that Bridgewater wasn't any good, so he should start over Bridgewater.  Bridgewater made this seem foolish a few weeks later.  Fast forward to now and Simms is again going on about Hill's growth as a QB, with no new evidence of such since the last time he made the argument.  That's the "same nonsense" I was referring to.  The recent Simms work on Hill doesn't reference Bridgewater.  Not sure what you don't get there.

 

2. Simms is referring to "growth" at "the position", which is QB, which in the NFL is a passing position.  And he specifically says "especially during the season".  Those were quotes not taken out of context.

 

3. I got a kick out of the "hurry up sign". lol.  But Simms was given plenty of time to expound on his reasoning and he said exactly what he said--half of it was essentially Bridgewater isn't good (laughably, compared to what he has seen from Hill in some preseason stuff and a handful of regular season pass attempts).  None of it would be convincing to any rational football watcher.  And all of it quickly proved wrong over the course of the next 5 weeks.  And despite saying over and over how smart Payton is and how much he loves Taysom Hill, when Brees went down, Payton ignored Hill for those 5 games--giving him only 11 touches on Offense (1 pass)--barely putting him on the field.  So another  one of Simms's main arguments about the strengths of Hill over Bridgewater proved utter nonsense LAST year.  Yet here his again touting the same stuff about how Payton loves this guy.  (I'm sure he does, but not as franchise QB).  And how much "growth" he has seen in 2019--in 6 pass attempts.   NO just picked up Winston because they don't want a real QB at backup, not the trick play guy.

 

I'm not upset.  I'm pointing out the dumbness the of putting a rarely used gadget play guy ahead of legit QB's based on some preseason fluff and zero real game QB experience somehow labeled as "growth".  

 

I don't really follow Simms and I don't typically read his stuff.  He made a splash recently with his bogus "scoop" about Prescott turning down $175 million.  And now he jumped back in with another attention grabbing take on top 40 QBs he would take right now (all 3 current Saints QBs!).  He's again getting widely lit ups for it---and for reasons that should be obvious to most, so he has clearly invited the abuse he takes for his sloppiness in thought and reporting.

 

You asked me to reference Simms's actual arguments and I copied them for viewing pleasure and quoted his words in the context that he said them.  The only persuasive case he makes is........that he really likes Taysom Hill.    

 

Cheers.

[GunnerBill]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:28 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, this is stupid talk.  It’s his opinion but I do wonder, under polygraph, does he really believe it?  I think this is his hot take because if by some miracle JS is better, he will be like the only human being predicting it.  How fast would the Pats trade Stidham for Tua?  
 

I get the Bama talent thing but he looked special.  Great touch in his passes and hits guys in stride.  I truly believe injuries are the only thing that will keep him from being a star.  

 

Yea the touch Tua throws with is special. I don't hate Stidham... I thought he had game manager potential coming out but he is not Tua. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But did you see Hill’s ?!!! ? 

 

I watched some of that film so I could think some thoughts.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Yup. good point. We're all getting upset about guys he's saying aren't even in the top 32.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, really.

 

But he does this yearly, makes this top 40 list. It's what he likes, diving deep on QBs. And so he has to try to fit people in based on the information he's got.

If someone forced me to pick one it would be Stidham over Tua. Belicheat wants to prove so badly that it is his coaching and genius of all football that made the offense great. Stidham is going to have a slightly better Matt Cassel type year. Tua still has to beat out Fitz for the starting job. Tua is a rookie and I think he had better weapons at Bama then the Dolphins currently have on their roster. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea the touch Tua throws with is special. I don't hate Stidham... I thought he had game manager potential coming out but he is not Tua. 

 

He's very accurate.  And can throw on the run.  The stuff about always throwing from a clean pocket to wide open receivers is a hoot.  Ditto for the arguments that Stidham or the QBs could have walked on to Bama and won all those same games and a championship.  Yet Jalen Hurts, a guy who was SEC Offensive player of the year as a Freshman and Ended up his last year at Oklahoma, where he scored 53 TDs, couldn't do it.   He got yanked in a Championship game for the freshman backup, who won the title for them.  

6 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If someone forced me to pick one it would be Stidham over Tua. Belicheat wants to prove so badly that it is his coaching and genius of all football that made the offense great. Stidham is going to have a slightly better Matt Cassel type year. Tua still has to beat out Fitz for the starting job. Tua is a rookie and I think he had better weapons at Bama then the Dolphins currently have on their roster. 

 

 

What weapons does Stidham have?

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He's very accurate.  And can throw on the run.  The stuff about always throwing from a clean pocket to wide open receivers is a hoot.  Ditto for the arguments that Stidham or the QBs could have walked on to Bama and won all those same games and a championship.  Yet Jalen Hurts, a guy who was SEC Offensive player of the year as a Freshman and Ended up his last year at Oklahoma, where he scored 53 TDs, couldn't do it.   He got yanked in a Championship game for the freshman backup, who won the title for them.  

 

 

What weapons does Stidham have?

 

Indeed. Preston Williams and Devante Parker > every Pats receiver. I had Williams right there behind Harry coming out. He was a round 2 talent who dropped because of off field stuff. He was a beast before doing his ACL. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Anyone saying Chris Simms does anything for attention, views, clicks, or to put out a hot take knows nothing about the guy and is therefore talking about a subject despite lacking any knowledge of it

Of course football opinions will differ but those statements are flat out incorrect and quite obviously ill-informed, anyone who has paid attention to his stuff over the years knows this. The guy is laughably out of touch with social media and couldn't care less if his stuff upsets people, he just likes watching film and talking ball. Not every analyst you disagree with is automatically on a "hot take"

[BuffaloBills1998]

2 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

You obviously are a very big Tua fan.  Which of course is your right.  But the NFL and college games are totally different.  And to gush that much about any prospect coming out of college and transitioning to the pro game is just way over the top.  And that is at any position.  To think he is just going to come in and tear it up like noone in recent memory is just very unlikely.  If he can come in and play like Kyler Murray did last year, that would be a successful season.  

He’s a hell of a better prospect than Justin Herbert LOL. That guy is Brock Osweiler 2.0 

[The Frankish Reich]

Roll the clock back to a similar situation in 2004. Chris Simms was drafted in the 3rd round by Tampa. In 2004 we had that classic QB class: Eli, Rivers, Ben. Some Chris Simms type could have said -- quite correctly! -- that Chris Simms was "more talented" than, say Philip Rivers. He had a stronger arm, was more mobile, etc. You could argue that he was "more talented" than Eli and Ben too. (And definitely more talented than JP Losman, but let's not go there.)

Players like players who remind them of themselves. Coming out of HS, Simms had the pedigree and should have been one of the top QBs in all of college football by his junior or senior year. I suppose the same was true of Stidham. Was their failure to launch caused by circumstances outside their control, or by the fact that despite all their objective "talent" they lacked what counted most: the ability to read defenses under pressure and to throw with great accuracy.

 

Chris Simms in 2003 on how he coulda been a contender if only:

 

https://www.espn.com/ncf/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1492027.html

 

And 16 years later, he's not giving up on the "I was a victim of circumstance" thing (this one is a fun listen):

 

http://www.danpatrick.com/2019/01/28/chris-simms-reads-negative-draft-profile/

 

Simms is to Stidham as Brees is to Tua? Time will tell.

Edited June 13, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Roll the clock back to a similar situation in 2004. Chris Simms was drafted in the 3rd round by Tampa. In 2004 we had that classic QB class: Eli, Rivers, Ben. Some Chris Simms type could have said -- quite correctly! -- that Chris Simms was "more talented" than, say Philip Rivers. He had a stronger arm, was more mobile, etc. You could argue that he was "more talented" than Eli and Ben too. (And definitely more talented than JP Losman, but let's not go there.)

Players like players who remind them of themselves. Coming out of HS, Simms had the pedigree and should have been one of the top QBs in all of college football by his junior or senior year. I suppose the same was true of Stidham. Was their failure to launch caused by circumstances outside their control, or by the fact that despite all their objective "talent" they lacked what counted most: the ability to read defenses under pressure and to throw with great accuracy.

 

Chris Simms on how he coulda been a contender if only:

 

https://www.espn.com/ncf/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1492027.html

 

Simms is to Stidham as Brees is to Tua? Who knows.

Simms outperformed Brees in year 2 of their careers, then lost his spleen early the following season. You can make assumptions about hypotheticals if you like. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If someone forced me to pick one it would be Stidham over Tua. Belicheat wants to prove so badly that it is his coaching and genius of all football that made the offense great. Stidham is going to have a slightly better Matt Cassel type year. Tua still has to beat out Fitz for the starting job. Tua is a rookie and I think he had better weapons at Bama then the Dolphins currently have on their roster. 

Tua has been noted as being the best prospect since Brees. Saban loved him and told the Dolphins they would be fools if they passed up on him. Tua is a once and a generational type of player, QBs like him don’t come around very often. Stidham ( while I might sound over critical) is a poor mans Matt Cassel. I think BB knows his offense is screwed without Brady and I’m sure if he had the chance to take Tua over Stidham he would do it without thinking twice

[mannc]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He’s a hell of a better prospect than Justin Herbert LOL. That guy is Brock Osweiler 2.0 

A laughable take.  Herbert is ten times the prospect Osweiler was.

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Anyone saying Chris Simms does anything for attention, views, clicks, or to put out a hot take knows nothing about the guy and is therefore talking about a subject despite lacking any knowledge of it

Of course football opinions will differ but those statements are flat out incorrect and quite obviously ill-informed, anyone who has paid attention to his stuff over the years knows this. The guy is laughably out of touch with social media and couldn't care less if his stuff upsets people, he just likes watching film and talking ball. Not every analyst you disagree with is automatically on a "hot take"

 

Yea he has some views I disagree with but I never doubt his sincerity. I agree with your last line too. Simms isn't alone in that. We have just become very intolerant of differing opinions as a society and so anyone with one is attacked. Social media has done that, or at least exacerbated it. 

[machine gun kelly]

GB, that’s why my only social media is this board.  No Facebook, insta, snap whatever is for me.  I think Simms is dead wrong, but I really don’t care.  It’s like anything else, what these players do on the field is the only thing that matters which is why all of these analysts making predictions is just talk.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

GB, that’s why my only social media is this board.  No Facebook, insta, snap whatever is for me.  I think Simms is dead wrong, but I really don’t care.  It’s like anything else, what these players do on the field is the only thing that matters which is why all of these analysts making predictions is just talk.

 

I have insta but only as a viewer and the odd holiday photo (use it more as a virtual photo album). I have never been on Facebook and I don't have a twitter account. Snap chat as I understand it is mainly for teenagers to send pictures of their private parts to one another. 

10 hours ago, mannc said:

A laughable take.  Herbert is ten times the prospect Osweiler was.

 

Yea I am not mad on Herbert but I hated Osweiler. 

[Billy Claude]

I would be curious how often someone actually changes a posted opinion based solely on message board arguments, i.e.,

 

1.  Person A posts an opinion "e.g., A.J. McCarron is a good NFL qb"

2.  Person B makes counter arguments.

3.  Person A changes opinion based solely on the message board arguments (and not because AJ goes out and plays badly).

 

I am guessing this almost never happens. Most discussions quickly devolve into people repeating the same arguments in slightly different ways eventually degenerating into name calling. 

 

Entertaining and harmless on a Bills fan board but it makes me very worried when it come to politics.

 

  

[mannc]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I am not mad on Herbert 

You should be.  He’s going to be the best QB in this class, and he’s walking into a very good situation in LA.  He’s what Josh Allen would have looked like if he’d started 4 years at a major program.

Edited June 14, 2020 by mannc