Chris Simms thinks Stidham is more talented than Tua

[Thurman#1]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

How deep do I have to go into a guy's evaluation that has been proven wrong and is currently being widely mocked?

 

 

 

 

Well, right now you know absolutely nothing about how he made the decision or why he thinks so ... so a lot deeper than that if you want people to care.

 

And great point about the mocking. I don't know of any mocked arguments that have ever been correct, so you've got an excellent point ther.e

Edited June 13, 2020 by Thurman#1

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Brad Smith, anyone?

I’d argue that Brad Smith was better in college and went against better competition.  And he wasn’t 26!!!

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, right now you know absolutely nothing about how he made the decision or why he thinks so ... so a lot deeper than that if you want people to care.

 

no one cares except to mock assessment.  And he keeps hyping it.  

[Thurman#1]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Jackson still went in the 1st.  Stidham went in the 4th.  If the Bengals drafted him, there is zero hype about him.  So arguably a 4th round pick is more talented than a top 5 is a stupid opinion.  I have my doubts about Allen but if someone tried to argue that Kyle Lauletta was more talented than him before they both played, it would be idiotic. 

 

 

Not at all. Happens all the time. First round QBs fail pretty often. 

 

Using your logic it's easy to point out how idiotic it would have been to predict that, say Tom Brady might have done better than people who were drafted well before him. And there are a ton of examples of guys doing better than people drafted far above them. Look at Fitzy. Was EJ Manuel better than Matt Barkley? Was Griffin III better than Foles or Cousins or Russell Wilson?

 

And again, the argument is about how that guy would do this year, not over the long term.

 

I don't know which one is better, now or over the course of their career. But it's pretty reasonable to agree or disagree at this point, I think. We just don't know. These are all just opinions.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Not at all. Happens all the time. First round QBs fail pretty often. 

 

Using your logic it's easy to point out how idiotic it would have been to predict that, say Tom Brady might have done better than people who were drafted well before him. And there are a ton of examples of guys doing better than people drafted far above them. Look at Fitzy. Was EJ Manuel better than Matt Barkley? Was Griffin III better than Foles or Cousins or Russell Wilson?

 

And again, the argument is about how that guy would do this year, not over the long term.

 

I don't know which one is better, now or over the course of their career. But it's pretty reasonable to agree or disagree at this point, I think. We just don't know. These are all just opinions.

The thread says Stidham is more talented than Tua.  And yes EJ was both more talented (physical skills were not his problem, he played like a robot) and is better than Barkley.  
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BarkMa00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00.htm
 

and I’d be willingly to bet on Tua and Stidham’s careers if you want.  Stidham is a dime a dozen guy.  Tua, if he stays healthy which is a huge if, can be special.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Too bad because I liked what he had to say about Josh Allen, but I think this is tenuous - very tenuous

[stinky finger]

48 minutes ago, StHustle said:

 

Hard to believe that if Stidham was drafted as backup QB for the Browns that Simms would come out saying he's better than Tua. There is no evidence to support his opinion so I can only assume the team he's on and coach he plays holds weight here.

 

I'm of the opinion that Tua will prove to be the better QB, just saying it's not absolute at this point.  

[Mr. WEO]

43 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, right now you know absolutely nothing about how he made the decision or why he thinks so ... so a lot deeper than that if you want people to care.

 

And great point about the mocking. I don't know of any mocked arguments that have ever been correct, so you've got an excellent point ther.e

 

Maybe this is what you liked?

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/taysom-hill-comes-no-36-165505564.html

 

Simms says "and we've seen growth at the position"...as he tosses up a graphic documenting Hills CAREER 7 of 15 for zero TDs. 

 

Then he literally babbles (skip to 2;35) where he says " i SEE how this guy has the chance to be their franchise QB" as his eyes are weirdly darting all around the room.

 

Then he says he went back to the preseason where: "I watched plays, just so I could think some thoughts"

 

It is, quite simply, the most idiotic QB assessment I have ever watched.

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, major said:

With the pats cheating system, I fully expect Stidham to be better than Tua 

 

 

Heh heh. Nice.

[C.Biscuit97]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe this is what you liked?

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/taysom-hill-comes-no-36-165505564.html

 

Simms says "and we've seen growth at the position"...as he tosses up a graphic documenting Hills CAREER 7 of 15 for zero TDs. 

 

Then he literally babbles (skip to 2;35) where he says " i SEE how this guy has the chance to be their franchise QB" as his eyes are weirdly darting all around the room.

 

Then he says he went back to the preseason where: "I watched plays, just so I could think some thoughts"

 

It is, quite simply, the most idiotic QB assessment I have ever watched.

 

 

 

But did you see Hill’s ?!!! ? 

[Thurman#1]

39 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The thread says Stidham is more talented than Tua.  And yes EJ was both more talented (physical skills were not his problem, he played like a robot) and is better than Barkley.  
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BarkMa00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00.htm
 

and I’d be willingly to bet on Tua and Stidham’s careers if you want.  Stidham is a dime a dozen guy.  Tua, if he stays healthy which is a huge if, can be special.  

 

 

You might be disagreeing with EJ himself about his abilities, as he has retired from a profession where if he'd continued on Barkley's career path he might probably have made far more than he could ever make at most other career paths, even for smart and charismatic guys, which he is.

 

The thread is not Chris Simms' original opinion. It's a clickbait thread which apparently somewhat misrepresented what Simms said.

 

As for your opinion that Stidham is a dime a dozen guy ... you might be right. You also might be wrong. Have an opinion? Fine. And if you want to bet on it, you will probably find some Pats fans who might take you up on that.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So why did the bigger, more talented guy go 3 rounds later than little, injured Tua?

 

and please give some of Chris Simms QB evaluation. Some love him here because he likes Allen.  

So guys who go higher in the draft are always better than guys who go later?  Come on, you know better than that.  You act as though it’s an objective fact that Tua is a better QB than Stidham when neither has played more than a couple of snaps...

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe this is what you liked?

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/taysom-hill-comes-no-36-165505564.html

 

Simms says "and we've seen growth at the position"...as he tosses up a graphic documenting Hills CAREER 7 of 15 for zero TDs. 

 

Then he literally babbles (skip to 2;35) where he says " i SEE how this guy has the chance to be their franchise QB" as his eyes are weirdly darting all around the room.

 

Then he says he went back to the preseason where: "I watched plays, just so I could think some thoughts"

 

It is, quite simply, the most idiotic QB assessment I have ever watched.

 

 

 

 

 

OK, first, no, that is not what he said originally when he expressed fully what he felt. This is a short response to Florio. To get what he said you have to go back to the podcast where he listed 

 

Dude, your wacky response about babbling and weirdly darting says a lot more about your than him. He watched plays to think some thoughts, and you find that really weird and idiotic? Yeah, again, that says more about you than him. 

 

As for what he says here, responding to Florio, for those interested, here's what was said:

 

Florio: "I’ve seen enough of Taysom Hill as an all-around weapon. He strikes fear in the heart of the defense. He was the best player on the field in the wild card game between Minnesota and New Orleans. If they had used him just a little bit more, the Saints would have won that game. That’s why I’m a believer in Taysom Hill. I’ve seen enough flashes of him to know he can be a man among boys, and we’ve seen it from time to time and that’s why I think he’s going to more than justify that placement once he gets a chance to play quarterback on a regular basis, especially with Sean Payton designing the plays, dialing up the easy completions, devising the offense that fits his skillset, Chris."

 

Simms: "Sure. Yeah, you said it, Sean Payton one of the most creative offensive minds we’ve ever seen in the NFL. He’s going to have plays that use Taysom Hill’s strengths to the utmost, and he’s going to really accentuate that. So, Mike, I hear what you’re saying. I know you think he should be higher than 36. You know, I’m glad to hear you say that. Most people when they hear this on social media, it’s the opposite. ‘How could you have a guy at 36 who hasn’t thrown a regular season touchdown pass?’ Those type of reactions. I understand. But I think you and I both see the big potential here and we’ve seen growth at the quarterback position too.

 

"Now, I couldn’t make him any higher. Really, I couldn’t because it still is really a bit of an unproven commodity. And hey, when you do get to come in on a special ‘dial it up, Sean Payton had this play in his back pocket for a week now,’ ... that can make life easier on a quarterback. I need to see some more reps and meat and potatoes. But the things I like and what I see … I do see a guy where I go, ‘I understand, this guy’s got the chance to be the franchise quarterback. I understand why … you know this is Drew Brees’ last year in New Orleans. Because this guy has a bigtime arm, I mean a really bigtime arm. He can really spin it, throw it with power, we see how he launches the ball down the field. Of course his athleticism.

 

"The big thing I saw especially during the season a little this past season, and then especially last preseason, Mike. And when I was accumulating a list and going back to watch plays just to think about some thoughts I wanted to say about some players, man, Taysom Hill in preseason last year …Leaps and bounds from where he was the year before. Ability to play in the pocket, process information, go through reads, get to that second read, read it and get the ball out of his hands in a hurry was all really good."

 

 

 

Yeah, not particularly wacky or idiotic. Someone can disagree, certainly. But understanding that this is not his full explanation, it's just a response to Florio, it's not idiotic.

 

The thing he says that I thought was really interesting was "the fact of the matter is he's being coached by Sean Payton. And anyone who comes in after Drew Brees, you go through it. If Drew Brees has been hurt or is not able to play, go back and look, anybody out there. They've come in and all played well. I mean Teddy Bridgewater went 5-0. Luke McCown, when he was the backup to Brees, he came in and had a few 300 yard games and touchdowns and things like that, so I just think he's been taught well and understands the position and really refined himself." (Simms was wrong, it wasn't "a few" 300 yard gains for McCown, in the regular seasons it was one, but he basically played one real game for them and played very well indeed.)

 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I'm of the opinion that Tua will prove to be the better QB, just saying it's not absolute at this point.  

 

 

 

And again, Simms is NOT saying Tua will not be the better QB. He's saying that if he were a coach today who was on the hot seat right now and needs a guy to play right now this year, a guy he can trust to save his job, who would he want, Stidham after a year being coached up by the Patriots or Tua as a rookie?

[CSBill]

On this, I have said it several times before and agree with Simms.

 

“Tua is a creation of Alabama. You don’t think Jarrett Stidham, or like Justin Herbert, would have set the world on fire if they got to play with four first-round receivers and two first-round tackles?” => TRUTH

 

Time will tell on who is the better NFL QB. And, debating a 35th versus 40th ranked person? The bigger picture of what he is saying is that neither is very good right now.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

35 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

OK, first, no, that is not what he said originally when he expressed fully what he felt. This is a short response to Florio. To get what he said you have to go back to the podcast where he listed 

 

Dude, your wacky response about babbling and weirdly darting says a lot more about your than him. He watched plays to think some thoughts, and you find that really weird and idiotic? Yeah, again, that says more about you than him. 

 

As for what he says here, responding to Florio, for those interested, here's what was said:

 

Florio: "I’ve seen enough of Taysom Hill as an all-around weapon. He strikes fear in the heart of the defense. He was the best player on the field in the wild card game between Minnesota and New Orleans. If they had used him just a little bit more, the Saints would have won that game. That’s why I’m a believer in Taysom Hill. I’ve seen enough flashes of him to know he can be a man among boys, and we’ve seen it from time to time and that’s why I think he’s going to more than justify that placement once he gets a chance to play quarterback on a regular basis, especially with Sean Payton designing the plays, dialing up the easy completions, devising the offense that fits his skillset, Chris."

 

Simms: "Sure. Yeah, you said it, Sean Payton one of the most creative offensive minds we’ve ever seen in the NFL. He’s going to have plays that use Taysom Hill’s strengths to the utmost, and he’s going to really accentuate that. So, Mike, I hear what you’re saying. I know you think he should be higher than 36. You know, I’m glad to hear you say that. Most people when they hear this on social media, it’s the opposite. ‘How could you have a guy at 36 who hasn’t thrown a regular season touchdown pass?’ Those type of reactions. I understand. But I think you and I both see the big potential here and we’ve seen growth at the quarterback position too.

 

"Now, I couldn’t make him any higher. Really, I couldn’t because it still is really a bit of an unproven commodity. And hey, when you do get to come in on a special ‘dial it up, Sean Payton had this play in his back pocket for a week now,’ that can make life easier on a quarterback. I need to see some more reps and meat and potatoes. But the things I like and what I see … I do see a guy where I go, ‘I understand, this guy’s got the chance to be the franchise quarterback. I understand why … you know this is Drew Brees’ last year in New Orleans. Because this guy has a bigtime arm, I mean a really bigtime arm. He can really spin it, throw it with power, we see how he launches the ball down the field. Of course his athleticism.

 

"The big thing I saw especially during the season a little this past season, and then especially last preseason, Mike. And when I was accumulating a list and going back to watch plays just to think about some thoughts I wanted to say about some players, man, Taysom Hill in preseason last year …Leaps and bounds from where he was the year before. Ability to play in the pocket, process information, go through reads, get to that second read, read it and get the ball out of his hands in a hurry was all really good."

 

 

 

Yeah, not particularly wacky or idiotic. Someone can disagree, certainly. But understanding that this is not his full explanation, it's just a response to Florio, it's not idiotic.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, like I said.

 

Anyway....you can't say "we've seen growth at the QB position"...."especially during the season" after a guy threw 6 passes all season---and that was actually a drop in production from the year prior!

 

With 6 passes, Simms saw "growth" "especially during the season".  Come on!  That's absurd!  

 

Other than that he says the guy throws hard.  He's saying that he would pick a gadget player guy could step right in this year and win games as an actual QB--(over Teddy Bridgewater--he said last year).   He is getting roundly roasted for this goofball take---and rightly so.

 

 

Florio gave him all the timer he wanted to expound on his reasoning and what you see above is what he offered.  Watching him trying to defend this position really completes the picture.  

 

Watch this one:  

 

 

 

 

Remember --this was right after Brees went down.  Simms argument is that, because Teddy B only is good for 180 YPG, they should roll with the gadget QB, because (stop me if this sounds familiar)...Hill has "shown growth".  This is a year ago.  Plus he goes on endlessly that Hill is "Payton's baby"---yet Payton refuses to allow his baby to throw passes isn real games.  

 

Bridgewater made a fool out of Simms.....yet Simms is doubling down a year later with the same nonsense.

 

 

The only cogent argument Simms is making is one against nepotism.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Thurman#1]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Yeah, like I 

Anyway....you can't say "we've seen growth at the QB position"...."especially during the season" after a guy threw 6 passes all season---and that was actually a drop in production from the year prior!

 

With 6 passes, Simms saw "growth" "especially during the season".  Come on!  That's absurd!  

 

Other than that he says the guy throws hard.  He's saying that he would pick a gadget player guy could step right in this year and win games as an actual QB--(over Teddy Bridgewater--he said last year).   He is getting roundly roasted for this goofball take---and rightly so.

 

 

Florio gave him all the timer he wanted to expound on his reasoning and what you see above is what he offered.  Watching him trying to defend this position really completes the picture.  

 

Watch this one:  

 

 

 

 

Remember --this was right after Brees went down.  Simms argument is that, because Teddy B only is good for 180 YPG, they should roll with the gadget QB, because (stop me if this sounds familiar)...Hill has "shown growth".  This is a year ago.  Plus he goes on endlessly that Hill is "Payton's baby"---yet Payton refuses to allow his baby to throw passes isn real games.  

 

Bridgewater made a fool out of Simms.....yet Simms is doubling down a year later with the same nonsense.

 

 

The only cogent argument Simms is making is one against nepotism.

 

 

These are your best arguments? Again, you're not going back to his real argument. You're the one who asked, and now you found a fragment and act like it holds his main arguments. It doesn't. Then you find another fragment that's about Taysom Hill but not about whether he's a top 40 guy?  "Bridgewater made a fool out of Simms ... yet Simms is doubling down a year later with the same nonsense"? Just not true. On your barely connected clip there he talks about not trusting Bridgewater, where did he say in the recent stuff the same things about Bridgewater? He didn't. Where is Bridgewater ranked? You're making these bizarre arguments.

 

Simms said, again in your fragment, "The big thing I saw especially during the season a little this past season, and then especially last preseason." And that little thing gets you all upset? It's a nothing, and you have to cut out the words right after to get upset at all. He says, everywhere, that he wants to see more, can't put him higher till he does. You act like Simms said he'd showed growth - in the pass game - during the season, but he didn't say that, 

 

You're so desperate to make your argument that you're saying stuff you can't possibly know. "Florio gave him all the time he wanted," you say. Really? You were in the studio? Nobody was in his ear or in front of him giving him the hurry up sign? Nobody had said, "We've only got two minutes, so be quick here?" They didn't tell him they wanted to talk about something else before break? You know this? Nonsense. He might have gotten all the time he wanted and he might not have. The fact that you felt you had to throw this in despite having no clue is of a piece with most of the rest of your post. Going off target talking about Bridgewater, getting upset about one little phrase. "Other than that he says the guy throws hard," you say, but again even in your little fragment he gives a bunch more substance about what he's seen in terms of improvements in making progressions and reading the field. If there's nothing there to get angry about, you're making stuff up. 

 

You are trying to stick with this fragment because you wanna make your point with as little work as possible. And again, even the fragment there is very reasonable. You have to stretch and bob and weave, and your whole thing with the adjectives and adverbs, "he goes on endlessly". Endlessly, for you, is four seconds? Really? Dude, again, you're showing more about yourself than about him. "... eyes darting weirdly." "... literally babbles." You've got a major case of confirmation bias going on here. 

 

You don't like Simms. Fine, whatever. You disagree with is opinion. Fine, whatever. But your takes are getting wacky and off-target with Bridgewater.

 

Honestly, I've had enough of this. You won't even go and look at his main argument. You're throwing irrelevant stuff in here, it's not worth my time.

 

I generally find you a good poster, I'm not clear on whatever has you so upset here. Whatever it is, it's not holding my interest and the conversation just isn't working well. I'm pretty sure you can agree with me that much. See you on the boards.

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 6/12/2020 at 12:23 PM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2020/6/12/21288719/nbcs-chris-simms-jarrett-stidham-is-more-talented-than-tua-miami-dolphins-new-england-patriots Is Chris Simms this stupid? I like that he’s all for Allen but this is just ridiculous. Stidham was mediocre at best in college and hasn’t really proven to be anything much more in the NFL. He’s another Matt Cassel from what I’ve see from him

 

Simms losing credibility fast

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

On 6/12/2020 at 12:30 PM, dneveu said:

 

I mean - he's not wrong.  College success doesn't really mean anything when translating to the NFL.  Look at Leinart, Vince young, Tebow... and many others.  Having a stacked supporting cast makes it even more difficult to evaluate.

All true but it isn't as if Stidham played for a bad team.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, CSBill said:

On this, I have said it several times before and agree with Simms.

 

“Tua is a creation of Alabama. You don’t think Jarrett Stidham, or like Justin Herbert, would have set the world on fire if they got to play with four first-round receivers and two first-round tackles?” => TRUTH

 

Time will tell on who is the better NFL QB. And, debating a 35th versus 40th ranked person? The bigger picture of what he is saying is that neither is very good right now.

 

 

 

 

 

Yup. good point. We're all getting upset about guys he's saying aren't even in the top 32.

 

 

On 6/13/2020 at 1:38 AM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I don’t know how Simms can make a solid evaluation on either of these QB’s. Week 10 would be much better time to make a evaluation on these 2

 

 

Fair enough, really.

 

But he does this yearly, makes this top 40 list. It's what he likes, diving deep on QBs. And so he has to try to fit people in based on the information he's got.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Thurman#1