starrymessenger Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 16 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said: You clearly have not done your research on Tua (and maybe even know nothing about him?). Yes his arm talent is off the charts, especially his accuracy, but so are his intangibles. Look what people who know him say about his work ethic and, professionalism. Even opposing college coaches and players talk about what a great person he is. He is the epitome of what you want in a franchise quarterback on and off the field. Well spoken, incredibly nice guy from a loving family, never been in trouble, his teammates have the upmost respect for him, etc. He does need to continue to progress with his reads, but what college quarterback doesn't? Oh and his ability rally teammates when things are down? How about coming into the game for an Alabama team that was getting their but kicked in the national championship against UGA at halftime as a true Freshman entirely cold without playing the whole year and leading them back to win with arm? Is that enough of an indicator for you? Hows the weather in Miami today?
mannc Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Yeah, this is stupid talk. It’s his opinion but I do wonder, under polygraph, does he really believe it? I think this is his hot take because if by some miracle JS is better, he will be like the only human being predicting it. How fast would the Pats trade Stidham for Tua? I get the Bama talent thing but he looked special. Great touch in his passes and hits guys in stride. I truly believe injuries are the only thing that will keep him from being a star. How is it stupid talk? Tua is injury-prone, undersized and has yet to take a snap in even a preseason NFL game, and Stidham has barely played a series in the NFL. He was a good college QB at a top program and has good tools. Simms has been right far more than he’s been wrong, especially when it comes to evaluating QBs.
Hebert19 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 20 hours ago, dneveu said: I mean - he's not wrong. College success doesn't really mean anything when translating to the NFL. Look at Leinart, Vince young, Tebow... and many others. Having a stacked supporting cast makes it even more difficult to evaluate. Johnny manziel another example. And yes these guys all had issues but I'm pretty much calling Tua a bust now as well.
stinky finger Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 20 hours ago, StHustle said: Hmmmmm...If Stidham wasnt a Patriot would Simms still view his talent level the same? Making such a take public lessens the credibility of his Josh Allen praise. I don't think he's a Patriot honk. It's quite possible he's correct on both assertions.
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Injuries are a concern. Every QB coming in faces the same unknown re Defense reading. But Tua dominated in the conference that produces a ton of NFL Defensive starters (Bama destroyed Burrow and LSU in 2018).. LSU isn't the only such team he faced. Plenty of tight coverage on his receivers during his tenure there . I never understood this type of comment. No one says: "Kelly and Bradshaw are difficult to evaluate because they were surrounded with HOF talent and coaches". Great players make great teams. Not really, go back and watch the games. You obviously don't get the point of my comments. Talent was heavily stacked in his favor and he won't have that in the NFL. It's a lot easier to throw from a clean pocket to a wide open elite receiver against second tier coverage skills. Many of his opponents in the SEC were not good coverage teams, a couple were very good. He just needs to prove that he can do it when the talent is even on both sides and like you said avoid injury. Until he does that, many people will remain skeptical and Simms is one of those.
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said: Not really, go back and watch the games. You obviously don't get the point of my comments. Talent was heavily stacked in his favor and he won't have that in the NFL. It's a lot easier to throw from a clean pocket to a wide open elite receiver against second tier coverage skills. Many of his opponents in the SEC were not good coverage teams, a couple were very good. He just needs to prove that he can do it when the talent is even on both sides and like you said avoid injury. Until he does that, many people will remain skeptical and Simms is one of those. Well, he'll have NFL level talent in the NFL... Tua wasn't a classic pocket passer....
JetsFan20 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Injuries are a concern. Every QB coming in faces the same unknown re Defense reading. But Tua dominated in the conference that produces a ton of NFL Defensive starters (Bama destroyed Burrow and LSU in 2018).. LSU isn't the only such team he faced. Plenty of tight coverage on his receivers during his tenure there . I never understood this type of comment. No one says: "Kelly and Bradshaw are difficult to evaluate because they were surrounded with HOF talent and coaches". Great players make great teams. Those guys played with great talent, but also played against great talent. Tua and Burrow played with an NFL roster against Vanderbilts defense. 1
Thurman#1 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: What do you think he saw in Taysom Hill's 6 pass attempts (3 completions) that led him to rank him at all, let alone the same as Stidham and ahead of actual QBs? How long did it take to watch that tape? Well, if you're going to start off on an entirely new tangent and ask a new question, I would urge you to answer your own question and find out why he thinks what he thinks of Taysom Hill. If you think it's impossible to have an opinion about Taysom Hill, I'd say most of the football world proves you wrong by having one, one way or the other. And I'd guess that his excellent preseason pass performance over 108 throws might be a part of the answer. But again, go check it out if you'd like an answer to your question. I'm certainly not going to do your work for you. Edited June 13, 2020 by Thurman#1
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 Just now, Thurman#1 said: Well, if you're going to start off on an entirely new tangent and ask a new question, I would urge you to answer your own question and find out why he thinks what he thinks of Taysom Hill. If you think it's impossible to have an opinion about Taysom Hill, I'd say most of the football world proves you wrong by having one, one way or the other. And I'd guess that his preseason stats over 108 plays might be a part of the answer. But again, go check it out if you'd like an answer to your question. Preseason?? Wheres Lauletta or Logan Woodside on Simms's list? Wher's Nate Peterman?? come on....
Thurman#1 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Preseason?? Wheres Lauletta or Logan Woodside on Simms's list? Wher's Nate Peterman?? come on.... Yes, preseason. It's part of what's available. Have you gone through and watched his preseason throws? And again, if you have a question about how he did this or why he thought so, do some work and go find out what he said and how he made the decision. Otherwise your opinion (and anyone trying to make a good argument with no idea what he's talking about) doesn't have any real validity as it's not based on anything. If after you know what he said you still disagree, I'd be much more inclined to be interested in what you have to say at that point. Edited June 13, 2020 by Thurman#1
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, mannc said: How is it stupid talk? Tua is injury-prone, undersized and has yet to take a snap in even a preseason NFL game, and Stidham has barely played a series in the NFL. He was a good college QB at a top program and has good tools. Simms has been right far more than he’s been wrong, especially when it comes to evaluating QBs. So why did the bigger, more talented guy go 3 rounds later than little, injured Tua? and please give some of Chris Simms QB evaluation. Some love him here because he likes Allen.
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Yes, preseason. And again, if you have a question about how he did this or why he thought so, do some work and go find out what he said and how he made the decision. Otherwise your opinion (and anyone trying to make a good argument with no idea what he's talking about) doesn't have any real validity as it's not based on anything. You mean this? https://www.12up.com/posts/chris-simms-tweeting-about-saints-taysom-hill-s-butt-vikings-nfl-playoffs-01dxvm0c61ef Also, Simms said Hill should start over Teddy B. how did that conclusion turn out? 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said: Those guys played with great talent, but also played against great talent. Tua and Burrow played with an NFL roster against Vanderbilts defense. Facts. Tua and Burrow are the only college qbs to play against bad defenses. If only they could have played against powerhouse PAC 12 or MWC defenses. 1
Thurman#1 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: So why did the bigger, more talented guy go 3 rounds later than little, injured Tua? and please give some of Chris Simms QB evaluation. Some love him here because he likes Allen. Perhaps for the same reason that, say, Lamar Jackson went ahead of 6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: You mean this? https://www.12up.com/posts/chris-simms-tweeting-about-saints-taysom-hill-s-butt-vikings-nfl-playoffs-01dxvm0c61ef Also, Simms said Hill should start over Teddy B. how did that conclusion turn out? Wait, you mean a guy who every year evaluates the top 40 QBs ... gasp, sob ... was ... I can't say it ... wrong in one of his opinions? Wow, well, you're really done a great job there of proving that all of his opinions are wrong. I'll be sure to only listen to people who have perfect records of evaluating future preformance. Great job in going in depth on why he thinks that about Hill, too. Deep, detailed evaluation of Simms' position. How did his opinion about Bridgewater over Hill turn out? Nobody knows, really. Bridgewater did really well. Would Hill have done better? Worse? Nobody has any idea. Fine, you want to express an opinion on something you know absolutely nothing about - and seem proud of it - that's fine. Just don't be surprised when I'm not the only one who feels your argument has absolutely zero validity. Edited June 13, 2020 by Thurman#1 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Yes, preseason. And again, if you have a question about how he did this or why he thought so, do some work and go find out what he said and how he made the decision. Otherwise your opinion (and anyone trying to make a good argument with no idea what he's talking about) doesn't have any real validity as it's not based on anything. If after you know what he said you still disagree, I'd be much more inclined to be interested in what you have to say at that point. Hill played 5 years in college and his last year in college he was 26!!!!!!! And even being closer to 30 than 20 playing against 18-22 years olds, he had 43 tds to 31 ints and completed 58.2%. This Hill hype is so beyond dumb that I want him to play to finally end it. It’s an awful Simms take. So dumb. He’s like Tim Tebow. Except Tebow was much better in college against much better competition and wasn’t 26. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/taysom-hill-1.html 1
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 Just now, Thurman#1 said: Perhaps for the same reason that, say, Lamar Jackson went ahead of Wait, you mean a guy who every year evaluates the top 40 QBs ... gasp, sob ... was ... I can't say it ... wrong in one of his opinions? Wow, well, you're really done a great job there of proving that all of his opinions are wrong. I'll be sure to only listen to people who have perfect records of evaluating future preformance. Great job in going in depth on why he thinks that about Hill, too. Deep, detailed evaluation of Simms' position. Fine, you want to express an opinion on something you know absolutely nothing about - and seem proud of it - that's fine. Just don't be surprised when I'm not the only one who feels your argument has absolutely zero validity. How deep do I have to go into a guy's evaluation that has been proven wrong and is currently being widely mocked?
StHustle Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, inaugural balls said: I don't think he's a Patriot honk. It's quite possible he's correct on both assertions. Hard to believe that if Stidham was drafted as backup QB for the Browns that Simms would come out saying he's better than Tua. There is no evidence to support his opinion so I can only assume the team he's on and coach he plays holds weight here. 1
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Hill played 5 years in college and his last year in college he was 26!!!!!!! And even being closer to 30 than 20 playing against 18-22 years olds, he had 43 tds to 31 ints and completed 58.2%. This Hill hype is so beyond dumb that I want him to play to finally end it. It’s an awful Simms take. So dumb. He’s like Tim Tebow. Except Tebow was much better in college against much better competition and wasn’t 26. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/taysom-hill-1.html Brad Smith, anyone? 1
Thurman#1 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 12 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said: You're correct about hitting wide open receivers. It wasn't a knock on him. The point was that he very seldom had to hit a tight throw against great coverage with a pass rush in his face. Most recently he struggled to do that against a great LSU secondary. He'll have to prove that he can do it on a regular basis to win games in the league. Until both of these guys show something in real games, who's to say how much better one is over the other. It's just speculation. Tua also needs to prove that he isn't an injury machine. Yup. Also worth noting that Simms was talking - as has been pointed out a few pages back - not on long term potential, but on what value a coach on the hot seat would put on the guy. This year, in other words. One major advantage Stidham has on Tua when looked at in that light is simply that he's had a year of experience in the NFL. He knows a lot more about the systems and how defenses work in the NFL, a lot more.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said: Perhaps for the same reason that, say, Lamar Jackson went ahead of Wait, you mean a guy who every year evaluates the top 40 QBs ... gasp, sob ... was ... I can't say it ... wrong in one of his opinions? Wow, well, you're really done a great job there of proving that all of his opinions are wrong. I'll be sure to only listen to people who have perfect records of evaluating future preformance. Great job in going in depth on why he thinks that about Hill, too. Deep, detailed evaluation of Simms' position. Fine, you want to express an opinion on something you know absolutely nothing about - and seem proud of it - that's fine. Just don't be surprised when I'm not the only one who feels your argument has absolutely zero validity. Jackson still went in the 1st. Stidham went in the 4th. If the Bengals drafted him, there is zero hype about him. So arguably a 4th round pick is more talented than a top 5 is a stupid opinion. I have my doubts about Allen but if someone tried to argue that Kyle Lauletta was more talented than him before they both played, it would be idiotic.
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