Is Ruben Brown HOF Worthy ?

[DrDawkinstein]

IMO, No, he is not a HoFer.

 

Like others have mentioned already, I always felt he was over-rated and only voted to Pro Bowls based on name recognition because not many folks watched a lot of OG play.

 

My dad and I even used to joke that Ruben was voted in every year by opposing players just so they could keep him on the field and keep beating him. It made way more sense than him being named All Pro based on play.

[GregPersons]

My question re: 'overrated' is who would be the recent Guards worthy of HOF?

 

My opinion is the position is under-appreciated. Ruben has become so "overrated" that I think he's now come back around to being underrated — at least, he seems to be underrated among Bills fans here

Edited June 12, 2020 by GregPersons

[Clockwork]

He was good for at LEAST one false start or one holding a game.  Hall of "pretty good"

[Never NEVER Give-up]

He was very good and an even more likeable, stand-up guy.  I'd love to say yes, but I cannot.  Part of the issue is he was an OG; there are only 15 in the HOF; it may be the most under-appreciated position in football - making it that much more difficult to gain HOF-worthy recognition.  If placed among the following HOF'ers, ignoring the oldies who I never saw play, he comes up short.

 

1. Lou Creekmur (T/G)
2. Joe DeLamielleure
3. Forrest Gregg
4. Russ Grimm
5. John Hannah
6. Gene Hickerson
7. Stan Joens (T/G & DT)
8. Larry Little
9. Tom Mack
10. Bruce Matthews
11. Randall McDaniel
12. Mike Munchak
13. Jim Parker (G/T)
14. Billy Shaw
15. Gene Upshaw

[BUFFALOTONE]

15 hours ago, poblano said:

No.

 

He was a little bit overrated, this doesn't means was bad, 

he lived more on his fame than on his playing in the field

Bingo. 

[Big Turk]

No I don't think so. He was good but no way did he deserve to go to all those pro bowls...he kind of got into one of those things where he goes a few times and then guys/fans just keep voting for him because there are really no stats for OLine play to really use, especially before analytics.

 

 

[billsfan89]

20 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'd argue that you don't get to be All-Pro four years (no first team All-Pros, but still) without being one of the absolute best of your time. Top 2 - 3? Yeah, I think so, though a lot of his career. 

 

Ruben used to drive Bills fans crazy with his illegal motion penalties. Man he did that a lot. But he was an absolute road grader, physically dominant, a true beast. He incurred a lot of ire speaking up about problems at OBD, which led to his being traded. But I think he was right on target at the time. Most fans now seem to agree with this. That was a poor front office.

 

IMO, Wall yes, Hall probably not quite. 

 

Was Ruben Brown ever in the conversation for the best guard in the league at any point in his career? Genuinely asking, because I was just getting into football when Ruben was at his peak. I know guys like Hutchinson and Faneca were routinely among the top guards in the league in the 2000's. Now in the past 10 years Marshal Yanda, Zach Martin, and Quinton Nelson (albeit recently on Nelson) have been the top guards year in and year out. 

 

I don't know if Ruben was the dominant guard for as long as others who have been in the HOF were? Would 1-2 more All-Pro Teams made the difference? I don't know it is all arbitrary but I think with a position like guard it is often times hard to tell. 

[billsfan89]

7 hours ago, Never NEVER Give-up said:

He was very good and an even more likeable, stand-up guy.  I'd love to say yes, but I cannot.  Part of the issue is he was an OG; there are only 15 in the HOF; it may be the most under-appreciated position in football - making it that much more difficult to gain HOF-worthy recognition.  If placed among the following HOF'ers, ignoring the oldies who I never saw play, he comes up short.

 

1. Lou Creekmur (T/G)
2. Joe DeLamielleure
3. Forrest Gregg
4. Russ Grimm
5. John Hannah
6. Gene Hickerson
7. Stan Joens (T/G & DT)
8. Larry Little
9. Tom Mack
10. Bruce Matthews
11. Randall McDaniel
12. Mike Munchak
13. Jim Parker (G/T)
14. Billy Shaw
15. Gene Upshaw

 

Steve Hutchinson is also in the HOF. I would say that Faneca (the other guard on the NFL's 2000's All-Decade Team) definitely deserves to be in ahead of Ruben Brown. I think Brown is in the range of a guy like Jahari Evans (1 more All-Pro selections a few less Pro-Bowls) instead of All-Time guards like Hutchinson and Faneca. 

[auburnbillsbacker]

4 All Pros and 9 Pro Bowls gets you to the Hall if you play for franchises like the Packers, Steelers, or Patriots. 

 

Not being on the Wall of Fame makes no sense.  

[GregPersons]

1 hour ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

4 All Pros and 9 Pro Bowls gets you to the Hall if you play for franchises like the Packers, Steelers, or Patriots. 

 

Not being on the Wall of Fame makes no sense.  

 

I don't really get the amount of self-loathing from Bills fans

 

"Everybody says one of our players was really great. Do we agree? NO!!!! He's a bum!!"

Edited June 13, 2020 by GregPersons

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

I don't really get the amount of self-loathing from Bills fans

 

"Everybody says one of our players was really great. Do we agree? NO!!!! He's a bum!!"

 

 

 Please note one poster who says he’s a bum. (Maybe I missed one?) He was good. He was also good for a penalty a game it seemed, false start or hold. He had some VERY good years, then he just seemed good. Pro Bowls are often granted to older guys with good reputations, especially interior guys who are not stat driven. 

 

The question was....is he HOF worthy? Many of us feel he belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but not the HOF. On the Wall? Maybe. In the Hall? Not in my mind, and I’m a guy who’s like to see more Bills in the HOF. 

[GregPersons]

Just now, Augie said:

Please note one poster who says he’s a bum. (Maybe I missed one?) He was good. He was also good for a penalty a game it seemed, false start or hold. He had some VERY good years, then he just seemed good. Pro Bowls are often granted to older guys with good reputations, especially interior guys who are not stat driven. 

 

The question was....is he HOF worthy? Many of us feel he belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but not the HOF. On the Wall? Maybe. In the Hall? Not in my mind, and I’m a guy who’s like to see more Bills in the HOF. 

 

"Bum" is an exaggeration, not a direct quote. Jokes, for comic effect, will exaggerate reality to make a point for the sake of humor. In this case, this was a sarcastic exaggeration of how Ruben's been assessed in this thread.

 

I don't know many other Guards of Ruben's era that would be better for the HOF.  So, if he was the best at his position for his era, judged by the awards and accolades... I mean I remember watching him play at the time. I remember not really getting why Ruben was always singled out as the best Bills player. 

 

If a Bill got into the HOF by being a little over-rated, I guess it's just me, I would just take the W. 

 

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

 

"Bum" is an exaggeration, not a direct quote. Jokes, for comic effect, will exaggerate reality to make a point for the sake of humor. In this case, this was a sarcastic exaggeration of how Ruben's been assessed in this thread.

 

I don't know many other Guards of Ruben's era that would be better for the HOF.  So, if he was the best at his position for his era, judged by the awards and accolades... I mean I remember watching him play at the time. I remember not really getting why Ruben was always singled out as the best Bills player. 

 

If a Bill got into the HOF by being a little over-rated, I guess it's just me, I would just take the W. 

 

 

A little hyperbole is not the end of the world. No problem there. 

 

I think he had some very good years, then some semi-average years, and I yelled at the top of my lungs too often for senseless penalties. That’s how I remember it.

 

If every team got to add a few of their favorite guys, because they were “their guys”, we’d have to add a special wing to the Hall, or a basement or something for the “next best”. Don’t get me wrong, ZERO hate on the guy, but not HOF in my mind. We all have an opinion.....you are welcome to yours. 

[GregPersons]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

A little hyperbole is not the end of the world. No problem there. 

 

I think he had some very good years, then some semi-average years, and I yelled at the top of my lungs too often for senseless penalties. That’s how I remember it.

 

If every team got to add a few of their favorite guys, because they were “their guys”, we’d have to add a special wing to the Hall, or a basement or something for the “next best”. Don’t get me wrong, ZERO hate on the guy, but not HOF in my mind. We all have an opinion.....you are welcome to yours. 

 

He wasn't even my favorite guy. I'm just saying... "Should such and such Bill be in the HOF?" Yeah sure, why not? Is he HOF worthy? He's got the hardware and accolades. There aren't many other guards with more decoration. Since guards rarely get any praise at all, why not give some to Ruben? 

 

Just seems like... yeah, sure! Ruben was solid. Go Bills!  That's my opinion. Just don't really see a value in arguing against a player who was good for us being potentially recognized, that's all.  

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, matter2003 said:

No I don't think so. He was good but no way did he deserve to go to all those pro bowls...he kind of got into one of those things where he goes a few times and then guys/fans just keep voting for him because there are really no stats for OLine play to really use, especially before analytics.

 

 

 

 

Pro Bowls? He absolutely deserved those. He was ferocious, one of the absolute run blockers in the league at that time.

 

And please ... with the "he got well-known" thing. He wasn't on great teams much. Early in his career he was on the teams that were the dregs of those earlier Super Bowl teams, good, but not great. In order,  The reason he got well-known is simply that he was extremely good, which was the reason he made All-Pro four times, not just the Pro Bowl, but All-Pro.

 

Not HOF-good, IMO, but very very good.

 

As a rookie, he didn't make the Pro Bowl on a team that won a Wild Card game and then lost the division round. Next year he made it on a team that lost the Wild Card game. Next year, 6-10 no playoffs, next year lost the Wild Card game, lost the Music City miscarriage of Justice, and that was the last time he reached the Playoffs.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, GregPersons said:

 

"Bum" is an exaggeration, not a direct quote. Jokes, for comic effect, will exaggerate reality to make a point for the sake of humor. In this case, this was a sarcastic exaggeration of how Ruben's been assessed in this thread.

 

I don't know many other Guards of Ruben's era that would be better for the HOF.  So, if he was the best at his position for his era, judged by the awards and accolades... I mean I remember watching him play at the time. I remember not really getting why Ruben was always singled out as the best Bills player. 

 

If a Bill got into the HOF by being a little over-rated, I guess it's just me, I would just take the W. 

 

 

 

Faneca and Hutchinson were probably better, both right in his era, Faneca in the AFC until 2010 and Hutchinson in the AFC for his first six years. Faneca got six out of seven years in a row first-team All-Pro, Hutchinson five out of seven years. And Bruce Matthews, Randall McDaniel during Ruben's earlier years. Oh, Larry Allen too.

 

So I don't think anyone would argue that he was the best at his position for the era. But among the best? Yeah, fair enough.

[GregPersons]

21 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Faneca and Hutchinson were probably better, both right in his era, Faneca in the AFC until 2010 and Hutchinson in the AFC for his first six years. Faneca got six out of seven years in a row first-team All-Pro, Hutchinson five out of seven years. And Bruce Matthews, Randall McDaniel during Ruben's earlier years. Oh, Larry Allen too.

 

So I don't think anyone would argue that he was the best at his position for the era. But among the best? Yeah, fair enough.

 

Thanks for identifying better players.

 

I'll be first to admit I don't know the intracies of Guard position but it seems like one of those positions that never gets real respect. If Ruben gets consideration for WOF or HOF, he has my support as a Bills fan

[FieldGeneral]

On 6/11/2020 at 7:24 PM, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

HOF worthy?          ?

WOF worthy?          ?, probably ?

Sponge worthy?     Ask Ms. Benes.

 

"You gonna do something about those sideburns?"

[Buffalo Junction]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:12 PM, billsfan89 said:

 

Steve Hutchinson is also in the HOF. I would say that Faneca (the other guard on the NFL's 2000's All-Decade Team) definitely deserves to be in ahead of Ruben Brown. I think Brown is in the range of a guy like Jahari Evans (1 more All-Pro selections a few less Pro-Bowls) instead of All-Time guards like Hutchinson and Faneca. 

I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of these guys like Brown and Evans get inducted down the line. Particularly if they continue with the senior enshrinements. 20 years down the line people may look back and wonder why a guy with those pro bowl and all pro nods wasn’t voted in earlier. We should also remember that the guy could continue broadcasting and stay relevant because of that. 

[GregPersons]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of these guys like Brown and Evans get inducted down the line. Particularly if they continue with the senior enshrinements. 20 years down the line people may look back and wonder why a guy with those pro bowl and all pro nods wasn’t voted in earlier. We should also remember that the guy could continue broadcasting and stay relevant because of that. 

 

100%

 

I can definitely see a push for the HOF to be more inclusive in their considerations in the future, acknowledging more positions that are relatively under-heralded, and also players who excelled in difficult circumstances. 

 

I know nobody is going to agree that Eric Moulds deserves HOF but I do think he certainly should 100% be on the Wall.  That guy was a baller, and I wish he had better teams. But he made a lot of average QBs look pretty good sometimes. 

 

Antoine Smith is another guy who... I mean I hated that he went to the Pats... but enough time has passed, I don't really care now, and I moreso remember really loving him and the Flutie teams of the late 90s, those were the first teams I saw play live at the Ralph.  

 

Ruben being part of those teams, similarly, I have just a general fondness for all of those guys. Sam Cowart, our MLB was an absolute beast before injury ruined his career; he was on par or better than Ray Lewis at the time. Antoine Winfield...! Just a really fun group.

 

Ruben was a bright spot too, because that line was pretty shaky. John Fina was rough. There were a lot of injuries too. Ruben I remember as being pretty reliable; a few injuries but mostly he was always there IIRC.

Edited June 15, 2020 by GregPersons